TEXT OF TELEVISION INTERVIEW GITLN BY THE
PRIME MINISITR, RT. HON. R. G. MENZIES, ON
B. B. C. on 4TH JUNE 162
Mr. Robin Day: Mr. Menzies, we've read about your strong reaction on
Saturday to the agreement which was reached in Brussels,
whereby Britain would gradually do away with the
Commonwealth preferences on manufactured goods from
Australia and other Commonwealth countries. Now why were
you so disturbed about an agreement which affects only
about 2 per cent. of Australian exports to the United
Kingdom?
Prime Minister: Well of course the effect of it depends entirely on
how many more agreements there are to come. Because it
will be the cumulative effect of these things which will
be important, in the long run. Now this first one, as
you rightly say bore on a relatively small amount of
trade from Australia, much more of course from Canada.
But when it was announced as an agreement, this at once
provoked in our minds the question that ' Is this the end
of it? t Is this a provisional arrangement? Or are we
being told now that thiat is the agreement?
Mr. Day: Well, the British Government line has been that this
can only be judged, and ought not to be judged except as
a part of a package deal which is not yet complited.
Prime Minister: Well, I've been emphasising to them in my talks since,
that that needs to be made clearer than it was at the
time this particular agreement was announced.
Mr. Day: May I put to you what one Conservative newspaper said
about your statement? It said ' It is a great pity that
Mr. Menzies should make such an outcry over the settlement
on manufactured goods. His Government knows that
its main export interest will be well cared for.' And it
goes on to make this point: The main commodity in
Australian exports is wool, and it is already certain
that there will continue to be free entry of wool into
Britain and Europe.
Prime Minister: Well the writer of that is like a lot of people he
thinks that wool is our only export commodity.
Mr. Day: It didn't say that.
PFinru Minister: No, but he rather implies it, Wool is looked after
wool is safe yes. But we have many many scores of
millions of pounds worth of other co. mmodities, which are
at risk.
Mr. Day: May I ask you about one point in your statement on
Saturday in which you said that this agreement must not
under any circumstances be taken as a pattern for the
type of settlement which might be reached on other
products. Now isn't that rather strong language for one
independent Government to use to another independent
Government?
Prime Minister: Well, I thought it wasn't very strong myself. You
have to remember that these are our exports that are
being dealt with ours these are our preferences that
are being negotiated. Not your preferences into Australia
our pref,; rnces into Great Britain. These are the
ones that are on the counter. JWe have a perfect right
to express our vie-. s.
Mr. Day: Oh, certainly, yes. Jhat was the reaction of the
British Ministers at the weekend to your observations?
Prime Minister: I think they understood rry point of view.
D; bre they angry with you?
Prime Minister: No, oh, no. 7We know oach other very well. We don't
get into that state of mind.
Mr. Day: What safeguards Mr. Menzies
Prime Minister: I may tell you that I M,. y I interrupt you?
Mr. Day: Please go on.
Prime Minister: -We in fact have been, as they know, most co-operative.
We might have said at the very beginning ' Look, we
won't have anything to do with this matter'. But we
didn't do that. le have, through officials and other
channels, put forward constructively, proposals without
which Mr. Heath, as the chief negotiator, wouldn't have
been as far forward as he is now. Of all countries we
have been reasonable on this matter.
Mr. Day: Now what safeguards, Mr. Menzies, are you in fact
demanding for Australia's interests?
Prime Minister: Well, you can't answer that except by answering in
terms of about a hundred different commodities. But
there is one point that we have emphasised though, and
that is that we do not like this transitional period
idea what has been called the precipice by some
people. That was involved, that was included in the
hard manufactures arrangement that has been tentatively
made, as we have by now learnt. But if you were to
reproduce that in respect of dried fruits, canned
fruits, wheat, butter, meat, so that all these
preferential arrangements or their substitutes, went out
by 1970, this would be in the highest degree
unsatisfactory to Australia because we would have a
decline in our production of these things, and our
marketing of them going on steadily over a period of
years. And that is why we sr. id, both Marshall and I,
that rwe didn't want to see this method reproduced down
the line.
Mr. Day: Now may I ask you about some of the alternatives in
this problem, Mr. Menzies? If we join the Common Market,
the United Kin dom stands to get free access to the
Smarkets of Europe; now if we don't, as an alternative
are you prepared to offer us free access to the
Australian market, to take away your tariffs on our goods?
Prime Hinister: But aren't you rather overlooking the fact that we
have been giving you tariff preferences in Australia
since Australia began practically?
Mr. Day: They have been reduced in recent yoers, haven't they?
Prime Minister: But their effectiveness, let me remind you, has been
such that we have over the period of the last twenty
years been. Great Br. tain's biggest customer. In the
last 30 or 40 years we have taken more goods from Great
Britain though we have a population running from five
million at the beginning to ten and a half now, we've
taken more than the United States of America, with 180
million people. And this is, I think, very largely the
result of the preferential tariff position enjoyed by
British goods passing into Australia.
Mr. Day: But if we dont go into the Co_ . maon Market there must
be some alternative trading arrangenoent fur us to gain
benefit from, and this is what critics of your attitude
maintain.
Mr, Day:
Prime Minister: Now look, I want to make it quite clear that whether
Great Britain goes into the Cormon Market or not is a
matter for Great Britain to decide. She knows far more
about her business and her interests on those matters
than I do; or than we do. That's not our point. We
have said: Very well, if you want to go in, that's
your decision, and you will cast up the pluses and the
minuses, fairly enough. We know what the pluses and the
minuses are in the impact on our own trade and we want to
come out of this with as little injury as possible.
Don't imagine for one moment that we expect to come out
of this as a profit, we won't. We will lose something.
But we want our losses to be within reason.
Mr. Day: Many people, Mr. Menzies, see this whole issue as a
choice between the Commonwealth and Uho Common Market.
Do you see it in that simple way?
Prime Minister: Jell, I think that is over-simplifying the problem;
I think the two things overlap; I wouldn't at all be
disposed to be dogmatic on that matter. But just to take
a simple example: if Great Britain goes into the Common
Market, the Cormon Market has an internal free trade, no
internal Customs barriers. Then certain products on
which we now enjoy a preference, will be the subject of
a preference to the European competitor, and we will have
to encounter a tariff barrier. So that our preferences
will be reversed into a preference for one of the
European suppliers. ' cll, this may be the price of
Adniralty, this may be one of those things that must
happen, if you are going into a species of Customs Union.
And we feel the merits of that kind of thing. But we
being of the same race as you are, are always prepared to
have a good look at our own interests on these matters
and protect them.
Mr. Day: Mro Menzies, there has been some criticism in the
press that you have doubtless read about your motives in
making your strong statement the other day. One was that
you had deliberately overstated your case for tactical
reasons in order to with an eye on the harder
bargaining which is to come on wheat and butter and all
these other things
Prime Minister: Well, I'm sorry to be disappointing on this matter,
but you say it was a very strong statement and a
provocative statement
Mr. Day: I didn't call it provocative
PriJae Minister: Before it went out
Mr. Day: I'm not objecting to it
Prime Minister: My only doubt was whether it was too wishy-washy.
Mr. Day: ell would you like to strengthen it now?
Prime Minister: I've never seen anything so built up and so
dramatised it's a perfectly simple statement. We don't
want the rule that's been applied to manufactures, to
hard manufactures to be applied down the line. That's
quite true. They know that. There is nothing in our
statement that hasn't been said a dozen times to the
people conducting the noeotiati-ns.
Mr. Day: There is another criticism made of you which you have
pro) bably also roed, that you made this protest, whether
strong or not, to strengthen your somewhat shaky
political position at home:, where I believe you have a
majority of only one in the lower House of Commons.
Prime Minister:
Mr. Dcy
Prime Minister:
Mr. Day
Prirme Minister
Mr. Day:
Pri~ ic Minister
Mr. Day:
Prime Ministeor
r. Day:. many say -tInJt i ha~ ve never felt So comfo_-rtable in
Parliament as I Cid durn 4uh cn itigwt
Lmaj Drity o f Orice.
Can I go onicpe
t1i4nkr I cry-ing roysoif tosleep wjvry night
worrying a-bout ti-n-t thoy-20 quite wrong.
Ym) said before) yo. u lef't Australia tha-t you wre
coming to-1D into tho politic-al iJmpli cations of this
Eur oan quo-stion. Now ono of the th-ings you ineintioned,
whther Brita-in wo,: uld become,, a State, pa-rt of the
Europkean Fe: dcra-tion, what have you f-Jund out about this?
Aro yo. u any clea,? rer?
No, VI' not, but I expect I siaall be before I leave.
I've : lroady ha-d -, no or two discuss.-rL-ns with m: y old
friend, TMr. ir-cillan cmn talk to each other, wvrer
old friends and I'm se_-eing, him agarin next wuekend.
And _ L hope to:_ furnish my -mind a little more fully.
You have sugested that Britain as part of Europe c
ha,, rdly be an independent meombe! r of tVecoonath
those w. 3r your words -, heiin you arrived here. ( Yes)
. vhat effe ct dD yo) u thin!: that is going to hlive on the
wrhole constitutional st1-ructure of the CoiL: ionwoalth and
the Cro in, the q ueen of c:) urse-, being C,: uoen o f
Australia 7. s :, oll as Quee, n of the United K" ingdom? a n
I th-ink-it will teond to i* myself lo-. osen the
structure o) f theo~ nn~ lh but thqe Cojym. onwedLth
structuru, of c". urso, has been fairly well loosened in
rucont years: it's be-come a little less structural and
perhaps a little Drc casinally functional, And when
you discuss it f ccurse, yo-u just -mentioned the ueon,
we are the -, ueonls ] i n and women in Australia, we're
-n. oncirchists; and thore's a c -, rtain quality about the
rei31rti.; nbship bctWuen the imnrchiical countries which
can't be -2, reproducod by a fL. rn of words with other memberS
Do Y,; u thiink, tha12t would be affe~ kcted if the United
Kinf,! rn ro n~ uyp-rt of aEu rop can FedeOration?
Dirminish the sizmifi canco f thec on.
Prime Minister: The longcr thiis, wW1, A tha__ t's true but the-long-er
I live, the less disposed am I t-o -yen-ralizo -, bout the
futuro of the Co: nwat0be cause I don't know, quite
frnnkly. But I do) kn-w this, that t'o the great
Comrenwelthquestion is the re-lations between Graat
Britain and Australia. This is it. I know theiy ( arc
rolo., tio) ns withi othei r vn rsof the Coiunorwalth t. o) o
I dn' udeesir11-ato them~ but when it comes down -to
brass tackEs, to ioe the co) ntiin. uance of theo Commonwalth
is vitally acitdwith thei avoidance of nisunderstanding-
betaeen Great Britain and Australia, and their
workin.,-to gather, Oconom. i cally and p oliti cally.
Mr. Day: Mr Dy: Thyoa. n, uk Mr,. Mnzies.