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PRIME MINISTER
PAUL UMaIrZNG WITH RUSSELL POWELL, 2GB, 1OVMIR 26, 193
X a 03 PROO OnLy
POWELLs Prime Kinister, Paul Zeating, is on the line zow.
Prime Minister, good morning.
XltAIUNG ( inaudible)
POWEL I'm well. Are you satisfied with Conrad Black's
discussion of the whole issue in the papers this morning-ia
the erald?
XXATTNGi Well, look. His point about 35 percents he
mentioned this. You see, to understand vhat'm happened here,
Mr Black wants to get control of John Pattf ax A Sons, he wants
over .50 percent of the stock. No saw thi Qvreaimhkt, I had
discussions with him, and he mentioned 35 prcent. Out, Iour
months later, when the Covsmaasnt considered this in a full
Cabinet meeting on a submission from the Treasurer in April
the Treasurer put a statemenL out saying this case has been
assessed against the objective of limiting foreign involvemnt
in mas-circulation newspapers and the Government's agreed to
the Telegraph increasin its shareholdinj in Fairfax from just
undar 15 percent to 2? percent. And a finished the press
* tatwuunt by saying the Goernment will not Countenance further
inoreases in the permitted level of foreign involvement in
mass-circulati on nevpp& Ors. So, Xr Black came, asked and
received 25 perc. unt on a full Cabinet decision four months
after he asked me. Now, this little piece in the paper this
morning refers to the first conversation. But what today's
paper also says is that Lhe Leader of the Opposition.. he said
that the Opposition had not expressed a preference for any
specific coiling for such ownership. In other words, Dr Howson
vent in and gave him unconditional.. an unconditiunzal p-; Fto-val
to go to whatever level he wished. So, before the election#
what's happened is thl; Mr black's walked into me and said:
' Look# I've seen the Leader of the Opposition, he said he is
very relaxed and ho can take.. we can take our interest up to a
hundred percent, it we wanlt. But we don't need to go to a
hundred pareent bh& uie 50 percent is control. go, from the
opposition we're getting control, what are you prepared to give
us?" Ad I saidl " Well, Australia's national interests need
to be taken into account here. I don't believe that a
foreigner should be controlling Australia's two premier
broadsheet newspapers. So I saids " We'll consider it in the
appropriate way." We did, and we wont to 25 percent. Now, Dr
Howson's on the radio toeday calling me a liar and everthing
else. He uses the word liar ten times each day, these days,
about me. But the fact of the matter is, the proof of the
pudding 1s in the eating. We put a statement out after the
Cabinet meeting ftour onths after this conversation and decidud
nn 25 percent.
POWJ Lt0 Toe*, So, despite canvassing 35 percent at that
meeting, the decision's been made and that it won't be
KIR TIN4Gs Exactly. Now, on the Sunday prograa ' Business
sunday', a weak ago on the.. Just over a veok ago, Mr Block
said this s " I wrote in xy book about Dr Hewson's posltion
vhich was that this vat not an issue with him" In other
vords, the control was not an issue with him. And he was, he
said in agreed phraseoloqy in other words, he and Black had
agreed to say this as they left the meeting " very relazed
about what our level of ownershlp would be" in the event he won
the elootion.
POWELLa im. Well, he ( inaudible)
XEATINGs In other words: " Look, I'm not going to put any
silly 25 prcenL or 15 percent limits on this.. you can.. this
is unconditional. You can have what you like."
POWLLS Yes. He claims he didn't talk about 50 percent or
one hundred percent. You're saying that it's applied in what
he said, that it.. there could be total Ownership.
xATrNGat Exactly. It's uneonditional, in other words, he's
very relaxed, he couldn't care less. He can have the things,
in other words.. you see, you've got to understand that, before
an election, you've got Mr Black swannrming into town sayings
' Look, you know, I'm nov the hairy-chested owner of John
Fairfax Sons. Now, what are you going to do for me? Because
Dr Hawson's going to let me have a, you know, unlimited control
here., And I saida " Well, hang on. Their happen to be a few
national interests here. And, yes, I understand4 you've
difficQlt runninlg the papers at 14.9 percent and we may
consider taking it to 25 which would give you control to run
the business. Replace the presses And do all the things you
need to do. But it's not majority as far as.. because, look, a
Canadian living in London can never be an Australian."
POWELL ryeah. And did you say.. did you atiuntiui also
percent later? You might be disposed to support 35 percent.
SBATIRMIdWell, of course, they try and push you up, these
feallows. And he mentioned 35, but I gave him no, no
eneouxagement on that at all.
POWBLL& Okay. So, what he's saying In the paper this
oning is wrong?
IATZNOs No, what he said was, I think he said in the paper
this morming that z said I'd consider 35. Well, I didn't say
that. But the truth is, it Wuldn't matter what I'd said, when
the Cabinet considered it, the statement said 25. And that'
whera he nov stands.
POWXLL, Yeah. He said.. he said, now, I've got it hezre.
He saids " If at some stage after the election we wish to raise
our percentage to 35 percent, if he was still Prime Ltnhister,
he might be disposed to support such an application.'
M TINGM Well, here it is after the election, I've seen him
again a couple of weeks ago, and he is not going beyond
percent. So, there's ( inaudible). can I ust make this clear
to you, Russell. John Hewson now wants a ienate inquiry. But
when Sanator Kernot the Libs put up those teoms of reference
which saids " Question* about the Prime inister's conversation
with Mr Black*. When Senator ornot put up.. changed the toam
of reference to include, as vweall, questione by Dr Hewson with
Mr Black, John Hewson'sa now back-sliding from appearing before
the haring. Because Mr Blaok said on tho same ' Businesm
Sunday' prograut ' I said I'i quite happy to appear under oath
and say what each has said to me." Now, Dr Hewson doesn't want
to appear because, if he has to appear under oath, ho' 11 either
have to perjure himself or confirm what Mr Black ha saide
that he was relaxed and had no level and regarded an
unconditional, letting Telegraph newspapers buy control of John
Teirtaf a Sons. you've got, you know, him now running
around on your radio program he's on other radio programs
this morning saying the Prime Minister is a liar, he's got
this to answer for. He won't even appear before the committee.
He's got nov Senator Aleton, his fellow in the Senate, trying
to remove the term of reference to him. And then he's saying
that I should appear.
POWELL: Yeah. Well, as I remember, he told me this
morning that he would be willing to appear but said that he
wasn't the target of it.
XRATIHMO Yea, that's code for saying' " If I'm mentioned in
the terms of reference, I von't be there.' Because vhat that
means is, when he's asked about these things, he's under oath,
and he's going to have to say or perjure himself that he
was prepared to shovel control of John Fairfax Sons to a
foreigner.
POWELLI Well, he...
xUTITNGs And, at the same time, attacking me. So, at a
time.. see, Russell, May I make this point to you. Since late
last year Dr Howson was striding around Sydney arrogantly, like
the sort of toast of the business scene, about to becoame Prime
Minister. You know, he vas ushering people into his office
like he was a sort of king of the castle. And in came Xr
Black, you know: " What can we do for you?" OWell, you know,
now we run the major papers in this country, we want control of
it." " Look, we're very relaxed about that, we are very relaxed
about that. You can have whatever you like." Mean hile, silly
me I'm only protecting the natiunal interest. When he comes
and sees me, Z says " Well, hang on, whoa, whoa, whoa, there's
a few interests here. You've got 14.9, yes, we understand
that's a problem.
POWELL Teah. Yet the point that probably re Ains
unresolved is this whole issue of balanced reporting. And what
is halanned reporting from your point of you, and was it going
to be a trade-oft of balanced reporting for 25 percent?
KEATINGs Yes, wVol, I made no deal with Mr Black
( inaudible). There was no element of a deal. In other words,
if it's balanced reporting. See, what happened to us, Russell,
in the campaigns the Herald editorialised against the
Government. In the editorial on the 12th of March IL saids
" Tt's time for a change', The Age said. " Why the Coalition
should win tomorrow"', the Financial Review said: " Why Hewvon
should win'. In fact, the.. and I referred in the Parliament
to that appalling front page, after the policy speech of the
Labor Party, which was headed$ " Pork barrel Republic and a
free set of steak knives, too'. I mean, it was the moat biased
presentation of a front page following a major policy speech
that I have ever seen. Despite that, we still let Mr Black go
to 25 percent.
POWZLL So, it wasn't balanced reporting, in fact...
M ATINGt No.
POWELLt during the campaign.
XEATINGa It was the Herald's presentation of news and
aditorial vent in favour of the Liberal Party.
POWELL: So, it was unbalaneod and..
KEATINGe Well, in my view it was. But the fact was, 48 it
wasn't to the point where, I believed, it disqualified the
legitimate request Black had to have enough of the stock to
actually be able to run the business.
POWBLL; Yeah, yeah.
KERATINQs3 At 14.9 percent, everybody in Jones Street,
Broadway, told Mr Black to go and disappear. You know, the
journalists, the managers, saying " Woll, hang on, you've only
got 14.9 of the stock. It won't be long before you're out of
hot., Why should we take notice of you?" So, naturally, he
was sayings " I can't run the business at 14.9 percent. 0 So Z
saids * Tou certainly can at 25, and that's all you need." So,
this is it, now. But, I mean, look., the proof of the pudding
of this will be in the eating, that is whether Dr Reveon
actually apears before the Senatv co mittee he's promoted.
Because, it he does, it'll become very olear that Mr Black's
now three references I refer to the one in the book, the book
which started all this. What he said was, t he Leader of the
Opposition had already promised promisedi that, if he was
elected, he would remove restraints on our ownership. Now, I
act a group of journalists of John Fairfax sone not long
after I met Mr Black this yas late last year, and some of the
Fairfax executives.. and at that meeting I told them that Mr
Black told me that John Hewion had said to him that they could
take their interest as high as a hundred percent. So, it's not
a matte of me saying it now...
POWKINLt So, presumably they can back you up on that?
BRZATINGs Exactly.
POWELL: What, senior Fairfax executives and journalists?
KrATINGs Exactly.
POIWELLs Mike Secombe among them,
KZATINGs Mike Steketee was amonget themr Rose Gittins..
POWELL, K.
K~ ATING: so, i nean, I said it then. Kr Black said it nov
and, yet, you've got Dr Hewson saying.. he starts off an
interview ' liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar..', he says that
about fifteen times and then people says " Oh, this is
serious.'" But this is part of the standard stock in trade.
POWILLs Okay. Well, 3ust finally., he said yesterday that
he'd slap a writ on you within an hour, if you said the kinds
of things you were saying in Parliament outside of Parliament.
EATINaG: Yes, but, you see, that sort of bluster goes
nowhere, nowhere in public life. You can't say of a Prime
Minister that he has in some way diminished his office by doing
6
something untoward. And when the reply comes back " Well,
hang on, you're going to give the company up to four times as
Ach stock in this, and then accuse him, to say: " Oh, well, it
he says that again I'll put a vrit on hiam." I moean, this is
the sort of tactic Dr Mmwon uses. I mean...
PowULt Are you threatening a writ this morning, because
there's a report aroun4 that you are.. on Kerry Stokes.
SATINGi NO, what Kerry Stokes said.. I mean, I don't have
to deal with the elorry Stokes of this world. Hoe's 8 bit below
my speed. But what he did say yesterday was, on the A. m.
program, he said.. there was a question, " Conrad Black says Mr
Reating has not compromised the integrity of his offaice".....
now, mind you, Black did say thisa that I had not compromised
the integrity of my offee...." Do you agree with that
aseoement? I certainly do not., XeanAing that I had
compromised the integrity of my office. What I said this
morning# well, about Nr Stokes vass that if he continued in
that vein, I would.. I would issue process against him.
Because none of us have to put up vith him, with people like
that. But the Leader of the Opposition.. I'm not in the
business of Lesuing write against politicians because, I think,
you've got to be able to take as well as give it.
POWELLs Yeah. Well, you've dished it out in the past end,
I suppose, you do have to take it.
REATTINGS But the Leader of the Opposition..... well, that
is it it's not of a very personal or defamatory nature, but,
itf it's of a porsonal, defamatory nature I think it's a
different matter. But if it's just general political issues
like this you take it as it comes, But the Leader of the
Opposition.. you know one of the things he said this morning on
anothOt tAdio station, he said, ' The Prime Minister is a liar,
he promised tax cute, he lied." The tax cute were delivered
last week.
POWLL; Yeah.
IZATINGa Eight to ten dollars a vaak for everybody as of
last Tuesday.
POWLI Yeah. The tax cuts are not the issue here, are
they? IZATINGs They're not# no.
POWELLs OKay, Prime Kinister, thank you for your time this
morning. I appreciate that. I hope we'll talk again.
ZCATINGn Good.