PRIME MINISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER, THE HON P J KEATING, MP
INTERVIEW WITH SUSAN MITCHELL, RADIO SAN, 29 JUNE 1992
E OE PROOF COPY
PRESENTER SUSAN MITCHELL.... Well, I did manage yesterday., I
was lucky enough to get the Prime Minister of Australia. Paul
Keating, to have a few words with me about himself and about his
vision for Au5tralia. Because it Was at a public function there
Is.. there might be just a bit of background noise and my voice
isn't necessarily studio qualltW but his is loud and clear as
you' I I hear now.
Welcome to Adelaide, Prime Minister.
PAUL KEATING. Thanks you, Susan.
MITCHELL. Most Of the PIOPle that l've spoken whir l've said.
" Well, now what's the question YOU Most was want mu to ask the
Prime Minister?", thew say. " Ask him If he's for real",
KEATING. What do they mean though?
MITCHELL.... . Well, I think they want to know whether sometimes
when you flick the Vaudeville switch, or you flick other
switches. they want to know the real person that's behind all
those kind of roles that you play I suppose.
KEATING.. . Well. I mean my philosophy is that the place has for
too many years been kidded along by the Political system. In
other words a lot of People In public life knew bitter but
wouldn't say. and they played the silly and : lvil gaine, being
Silly and being civil at the tame.. Same time. and because the
place had so much natural wealth it Sort of muddled through andi
thosc sort of sins of oimission were Sort of forgiven. But when
the world stopped wanting to paW us the prices we thought they
owed us for the things we did in the normal course of events.
like wheat and wool and all these other things. all the sins
became obvIoi4S, and so It's a matter of whether one wants to be
2
civIl and silly and not say, or be a whistle blower and try and
change the place. and I believe that the thing to be is a
changer. to change the place and to call the.. call the tune as
it is.
So. there's not much more to me than that really. I mean I.,
I've done what I mean I work the swstem, the bureaucratic
System, the political system to get the changes. It doesn't
matter whether the' re in. you know, airlines or recent things xwe've
done. pay television. I'm now working on technical and
further education, a national system there. Whatever it might
be at the time trying to break another log Jam. So it's.. I
have some.. over the Wears, like anyone who's been in It a while.
I've developed certain political skills and I trW and use them
and I employ all the tricks of the trade in getting decisions up.
Nothing more, nothing less,
MITCHELL There's a commonly held belief among the Liberals
that If they give you long enough you'll go too far, You know
how you get carried away, they believe, with your rhetoric. and
that Richo's not there to hold you back now.
KEATING No, but RIcho never held me back. I mean I mena
we're at the stage in life all of us where you call your own
tunes. I mean I call.. I've heen calling my own shots for years.
and I mean the Liberals Just sat on their tails for sort of
thirty years and let the place become an Industrial museum.
Anyone that does anything always runs past them. I mean anyone
that wants to exert themselves at all runs past them, and it's
always the case that anyone that does want to change the place
and push It along, in our case make It more relevant in the
world, will always run Into all of these sort of crustW
Conservative characters who don't went to do anythingWell,
that's fine but.. but the system.. the political system owes the
Public something better and so I push and shove and try and get..
get our way on policy and change. an it's mot been easy but
again It's not.. who was It said. " Life was not meant to be
easy" 7
MITCHELL... .( laugh] Well, he certainly wasn't one of your
mentors but one of Uour mentors did saw at some stage, " Don't
forget. Paul, that you're here to hate the Liberals",
KEATING No, no. No. that was Rex Connor who said, " No, no.
We're here to bash Libs". Bash was the word he.. " You're here to
bash Libs". And.. and he meant that for Sort of Sociological
reasons and political reasons. I mean, look I couldn't care less
about them. I mean largely they are largely Irrelevant to the
process and have been for a long period of
time and anybody who wants to. Wou know, to drag the cart along
to sort of get Changes knows that they have to drag them along as
well, that they won't help. Vou know, they won't help, they're
always In therm trying to do something to sort of slow the place
back, and I suppose. you know. you* ve just got to regard that..
You've got to regard that as just part of the sort of general
inertia of the place, that you've got to tug the Show along end
them as well.
MITCHELL... ut whem you look at Dr Hewson acro5s the chamber I
mean do you feel any genuine antagonism for him or is it..
KEATING. Oh no. Look.. look, no. I mean he's here to do a
pal.. he's there to do a political jot and that's fine. I mean I
understand that, but hi doesn't understand about society. He's
come to public life not prepared. This is a society that one
seeks to operate for its betterment and improvement. He thinks
soCiety finishes at the Sydney Harbor Bridge and it starts at
Watsons 9aoj in Sydney. it finishes at the Sydney Harbor Bridge.
anything west of that. Including. you know, Adelaide or, anywhere
else, in a sense doesn't matter..
MITCHELL,... Well, he has close ties with Adelaide. I mean his
family live here.
KEATING. Min. Well, I mean the thing is. you see, is this sort
of view if you haven't got a million you' re a bludger. If you
haven't made a million by the time you're sort of thirty five
well there's something wrong with you. Like his federal director
was saying yesterday. " if you're an the unemployment benefits for
nine months that's the end of you. After that it's not a fair
deal for the taxpayer". In other words if the economic system
has made you unemployed you can go down to St Vincent do Paul's
Society or the Smith Family and get yourself looked after that
way because it'd be unfair to ask the taxpayer to look after you.
I mean this Is the same spiteful view. They.. they're always
trying to sort of penalise somebody, There's no generosity of
spirit amongst them and that's what I find about the Liberal
Party in generally. and also Dr Hewson, therm is no generosity of
spirit. And If.. I1-but beyond that. I mean I don't have any
more contempt for hin than I do hiS party.
MIrCHELL.-. Is he a class traitor?
KEATING. Well, I think so. I think anyone that comes from.. I
Won't say a class traitor. let's not run that too far. He says
to me, " Look there you are standing In a Zegna suit". and
I Say " Ye5. and SO are you. The difference is last night I put
my hand up to give the workforce of Australia occupational
superannuation for the lest., rest of their lives. Last night
you voted t hem) down You put your hand up so they couldn't get
it, That's the difference. It's not how we look. or what sort
Of Suit we've got, or what sort of car we drive. What matters is
where your vote is, where you heart Is, and my vote and my heart
has been always with the great body of the population who happen
to be working people". But that's not to say that people who've
got a quid haven't got a right to Play their role in the system,
and we've also supported them. you know. by such things as
removing the double tax on dividends. which the Liberals never
did. Cutting the top marginal rate fron sixty to forty nine.
You know these are things.
I mean our policies are policies for the whole of Australia, but
sort of there they wire lust Wednesday might in the. in the
Senate voting against a retirement incomes plce to gi1v e
Australians when th~ ey are areient gewCSthe Current age
pension. they voted no. We voted yes, and that's the difference
between us.
MITCHELL.... . Now. there's a rumour that there's going to be an
eleven billion budget blowout.
KEATING. . Well, they're always., I mean this time of year the
estimates for the Commonwealth budget are notoriously unreliable
but we've already published a starting point of ten point five
and no doubt it'll be around that, It could be a little., little
greater than that.
MITCHELL.... And how does that make you feel?
KEATING Well, If It wasn't that there'd be a lot of very..
very., you know, very poor, people out therm because you see only
for the fact we had these huge surpluses.,. you see I was the
first person In Australia to produce as treasurer a budget
surplus. the first ever. We ran those vast surpluses through the
Wears, three or four years. and now because of a fall in
receipts. fall in activity, a fall in company tax Collections.
a pickup in unemployment benefits, the natural.. what's called
the natural stuhilisers in the budget are now producing a deficit
but that will swing back Into surplus when the economy picks up
because thE Lund.. the underlying structure of the budget Is very
good as a result of our work in the 1980s. So it's a cyc. it's
a structural Surplus but a cyclical deficit.
Now l91 me just de.. decode that. It means when the good times
Comne it goes back Into surplus but during the bad times It's in
deficit as It should be to help all those people with
unemploymen~ t benefits who the Liberals would chop off after nine
mom ths. I mean they want to cure the def Ic it -by cutting~.
aUI ng 9 " Look woo've got a wife and three kids have youTM
" Been employed after nine months have you " Yes".
" Sorry. Soup kitchen for you. Soup kitchen for you". That's Or
Hewson's view.
MITCHELL. What ever happened to the J curve?
KEATING. Weli. It.. It worked Its head off, We've been
exporting our head of f allI through the 1960S. We' ve now
manufacturing., manufactured exports are three hundred percent
greater than 1963 and the current account deficit is now down to
two and a half Percent of GOP three from six, six and a half. So
you know, there's been.. in fact if the export sectors now were
not working for us manufacturing would be in much poorer shape
than It is. That i s as domest ic demand's Sone down what ' s taken
the productive place Is exports.
I mean If! you look at the city of Adelaide a lot of firms which
are now associated with.-with the car industry and manufacturing
and those things are now finding export opportunities which they
woulIdn' t heive f ound i n the earlIy I1980s.
MITCHELL,.. They're saying that your emphasis om the flag and now
the oath of allegiance to Australia rather, than the gueen,
Liberals are saying this is a stunt.
KEATING. Oh yeah, well. they always say that don't they. I
mean If there's any.
MITCHELL.~ In fact it's something close to your heart, isn't it?~
KEATING.... It Is, because I think that it we are not.. I mean if
we want to be clear about oursellves, that 15 be strong enough to
say that we want to represent ourselves unambiguously we'll be
strong enough to do things economicaI1w and politically but while
ever we go around in a sort of twilight Zone not knowing whether
we're Sort of someone else's creation or whether were sort of
just an out. Outreach sort of camp f rom another show we' I I never
have that sort of inner strength and confidence that other
countries have got.
I noticed on the Sunday program on Channel Nine yesterday,
Auberon Waugh, there was a program an Britain and the monarchy
and It had Auberon Waugh, who's supposed to be a commentator of
note In Britain, and someone asked him about Australia ard the
remarks I'd made. he said. mOh yes, I think it's a terrible
shame", he said, " that Australia's going to cut this., these
links with Britain". And he said,. " Look. the Americans did and
look what happened to them. They're an overfed fat, garrulous
lot", he amid. The fact that they became the greatest nation on
earth just totally mi. totally went over his shoulder, totally
missed the point. Here he was sitting up saying. MIt's a pity
the Americans turned us down because look what happened to them".
What happened to them Is they became the greatest country an
earth, ( laugh] SO, I mean but.. I mean how do you cope with
these characters. Now the Liberal Party's sprinkled with them,
they're all over the place.
MITCHELL.... . Now. you also Say that it's really important that we
break away from lingering stere. stereotypes of gormiess men
with barbias and shrimps.
KEATING. Mm. well. I think that the.. the great sublety of
Australia.. I mean this Is.. this is the oldest continent on
earth. and we are all caught by the resonances of Australia. all
of our personalities are different than they would otherwise be
were we not exposed to this country. and to.. and also, you know.
the long.. Its history and the history of the Aoiginal pople
and the Impact of that on our society and all the things that it
Is to be Australian. and to have us.. to have all the serious and
subtle things about Australia represented as putting a shrimp on
the barbecue, as important as that may be to those who want, you
know, fun in the sun and all the rest of it, is I think to
undersell us. That IS the serious things about Australia, its.,
Its sort of.. it*% true cultural base. the fact thiat. you know.
we pick up Nobel prizes for literature and Prize and
all sorts of thing.. and that, you know. we have a highly
qualified scientific basis to the country, that In terms of dance
and theatre, in composition, this country has really got big
statements to make. and I think It's a pity we sell ourselves too
short by saying to. you know, the Japanese. the Americans, or
anybody else. " Well, if you Coma here you Can put a shrimp on a
barbecue", as good as that IS, you know, the sort of Hogan image,
what have you.
I mean AuStralia is.. is.. this is.. this is a nation of people
Changing all the time in an environment of a very old continent.
but a continent. We don't share the continent with
anybody and it's a terribly Interesting place for other people to
see and I think that the imagJe that Australia projects abroad
should be an image which., which truly reflects the Subtletlil
and qualities of Australia and not just sort ot,. you know.
basically sort of Wobs with cans In their hand and say. MCome anid
see one of our lor. a1 yobs". Well, who wants to do that?
MITCHELL.... I1 was talking to your minister of tourism, Alan
Griffiths, lost week and Saying that so far most of the images
that the.. certainly t he Australian Tourism Commission have
presented have been images of men and that it's about time that.
you know, Instead of Paul Hogan and Greg Norman we had a woman up
there. because let's face It if we're talking about Tourism there
are a lot of women with money in their pocket who are interested
In coming to Australia and seeing It and those images aren't
necessarily going to attract them here.
KEATING. Well, and a lot of women of accomplishment who.. who
we would do well to have as part of Australia's Image and
representational image abroad, and you know, I could do nothing
but agree with you entirely.
MITCHELL.... So we can look forward to a bit of a change in this
directlIon? KEATING. . WelI I think we 5hou Id. Wherever., where.. I mean
wherever we have the chance to do.. I mean I made the point
during the week that Ambassador Taliwee ( ph spl from the United
Nat ions ceme and received our second report on discrimination.
anti-discrimination In reality against women. and she was making
T he point that Australia's clone much more than most Countries,
and in many respects Is second to none, But this is not known.
not appreciated here. And not only 16 It not appreciated abroad
generally, but not appreciated here that in terms of sort of
opportunities for women. policy in respect of women. Australia
has really been at the vanguard of change. And one hears that
from anyone of international stature who knows about policies in
respect of women around the world. and Opportunities for women,
and.. whether they be. whether they be In things like
participation rates In school or opportunities in terms of
employment, or you know, government policies like child care, or
the family allowance supplement. or preservation of occupational
Superannuation. all of these things which this government has
dome in the last ten years have been important to women and It's
not known, not known abroad. and It's not that well known here.
MITCHELL.... Prime Minister, perhaps just finally, a lot of people
are suffering In this country, which I'm sure Wou're aware of, a
lot of people find It hard to get up in~ the morning and have any
hope about the future, not only for themselves but for their
chilIdren,
KEATING.., Mm.
MITCHELL. Could you perhaps say something from the heart to
give them some hlope?
KEATING.... Well, what I Can say from the heart and from the head
Is that the new Australia will be an externally oriented
relatively efficient trading country which has an economy made up
of the Primary sector. manufactures, and services. It'll be a
relatively sophisticated country tham the one we had in the
or early 80s. that the 80s transition will be entirely Important
to It, it'll have a low inflationarU future, it can stand
therefore much gr-eater levels of growth and with am employment
growth. But it'll.. the difference will be it* iI be sustainable,
and instead of running a large current account deficit, which
means the Government's got to pull the place back to low growth
levels. it'll be able to grow on and maintain its trade while at
the same time maintaining employment. But the interesting thing
will be that the jobs will be Interesting, they won't be the dead
and jobs that were around when I was a kid but more interest ing
jobs for people in the higher orders of., you know. of
manufacturing services and the like.
So the future. I mean, Is very good but you see we're taking
Australia now from the old Australia of the post war years to the
new Australia, end in-. In the transition there is both cyclical
and structural unemployment and business Is languishing but as we
leg them up with growth, as there is.-as a recoverW comes
through. as Is now doing. and employment will be lagged In that.
there's no doubt about that, employment will be logged but it
won't be logged for that long. As the economy grows and these
people are Pulled up into employment then the vista through the
0SO is the vista of a country looking up and out and not looking
down and in as we would have been had we let John Howson, John
Howard. or Malcolm Fraser run the game In the Bos.
Now the rOession we could have done without avoidably. It would
have been good to have avoided It but..
MITCHELL.... . But you sald we hid to have it.
KEATING. Well, we had to have 8 Slow down. We cidnt have to
have as recession, we had to have a Slow down because Wou
couldn't keep Spending twice as much as you produce and putting
it on.. an credit. which is what we were doing. But what we're
going to have now Is a longer run period of growth with low
inflation. more activity. and better jobs, more interesting jobs.
and most particularly many jobs for women, and that will be the
nature of the 90s. So in fact Australia's going to join the
fastest growing part of the world, the Asia Pacific and be able
to join it In full with full membership rather than join it as we
would have in the early 80s as mendicants with no real future In
the sort of higher growth, higher technology of the area. We'll
now be able to join up with full membership which we wouldn't
have been had we listened to the sort of marcs of the Liberal
Party like He.. Howard. Hewson and others.
MITCHELL So you're really saying. " Hang on in there"?
KEATING. It's the most.. this IS the fundamental post war
transition. Now there are problems in the transition but out the
other side it's going to be nothing like the country.. It'll be a
much better country than anything.. any Wou and I have livid
through.
MITCHELL,... Prime Minister, thank you very much for your time.
KEATING.-.. Thank you.
MITCHELL.... That was an interview that I did with the Prime
Minister of Australia. Paul Keting and I think YOU probably get
somec idea of what kcind of vision he has as we are in. he says,
this transition from the old Australia to the new Australia. I'm
sure you found it very Interesting.
ENDS