631" 64
PIES,_ Pu^ JI1T T" ELF TKNON
R~ jJ 7C_'_ P1T. IE ~ R2P.. P1JD N C7 VD* 111 1J lY 11_
063 at3* pm
MR, J. B. COMMINS
PRIESIDENT OY'
IZL'!-ENTAP. Y
JtRESS GA'LLERY
PRIME MINISTER: Welcome " ho1me, Sir Robert, and we congratulate
you on yi instcllat icn in the Order of the
Thistle. NowV tolme little mor-e rmundane
things Eir. You spoke in fairly general
t ermns yeisterday,, Could you give us something
more specific on your talks with Mr, MacMillan
and Pr-esideat Konnedy?
I was wiordering what procedutre would suit
you. ha T had in mind was that I might
perchaps maku some observations of my ov. fl on
some of' these iia tes, a nd then the-ire will ' be
questions th. at some or you would li; ke to put
and it iJs a_, vvayn concoivabDie, of course,
that I mig-ht be able to anerwer some of them.
Bat, I think it might be helpful, if I sai~ d
somaething in a gene-1-1 wo-y, It has u. 1.2 been
pretty hurried, because I had a totlal of
twelve days in London, somewhatineutd
by certain domestic events not on. m. Iy part,
but on the part of other people three
da~ ys in Scctland., 1 had a day in Ottawa Ond.
wodays in Wa-shington, with 1beforeth,
the better part the day i', n Virginia at
Charlottes. 111c. 1 thin" K, howiever, that the
main mn-tters tha-t I had discussions about can
be put faIrly briefly0 My rpa-in talks in the
United Kingdorm wore with the Prime Ministev.
Mr0Ivi( amilln,-n, viith the Lcrd Hovne, with
Mr,~ Sandys a-, nd wihMr. Butler. The
prcincip~ ral things tha,, 7t I discusoed with theohadf
rela,-tio-. n ill ' South-East Isiza, in
/ jarticular 11el aysia a-nd the developments of
that new Federation. I also had somne ta-lks
albout Southern Rhodesia, about which there
are some very Jl3. pu. tant discussicns taking
pLace, nnd about the possibility of a,
/ nuclear test ban, which is now. the su-bject of
discus~ ricno in Mloscowv wit-h Lor-d. Hailshrem
rc-aTrescntin37 the United Kin. ridcrn, anid
Mr. œ lerell I. arrirman reoro sent ing the
Pre-sidjLnt of the United States. 1 might
-; c'rb-) aTs take i~ n some crdei' 0 / 2
2
p 1 M
( Continue-d) Gs aQsa "'-Ila i s c orioorn d 9 thi ide : Sb~
actively supported byv the Unite d Y-Jradom. suiiported by us
as a mnatter of prinipie quito. clearly, and s~ pre. s
the United Stat_-s as C matter of principle; the one
reservation being byte Uandt ed States to the efc
that any dfefeneiie arrangemaent in reLation to M111alaysia
seems to the United E! taUtes to b~ e essential~ ly a Ccmimonw, ealtb.
matter at this stage,
. L was very relieved to find that an ' agreement was
made when I was on my way ho-me, between the Tuiku' and
Mr. Lea Kuan Ye;. r tho Vrinm ister-of Singapore, about
the financiLal aispects ofC th-~ e Fede;. ration, becauise as no
dcubt it is10 well. 1 kno~ vn th.-at one of ' the aldvantages from
the point'E of view -t S~ ingalpore in bcorm-ng an
1nt~ nw eeaio stat, finzancially, spea1ki-ng in
teras of tanriff po" lic( y and so on, ther: e ohould " be in the
sho~ rt run, at any -rate, if, the no-t sco long~ 1411, Bome
form of customs union 1be-twee-n the various minemrbers of the
Fecleratior., 1At one stagoe, it lirc-K ed as if this might
give riscP to great difficty bio these dfi~ te
have apparently now been reso~ lved1 so -that with the
exoe:, cp t ion of Brunei, the cons-tituents in the Fedo.-ation
haitve no w come tegether nand have ma7de an agreent, Th I s;
I thjnn> is of treniendcus impotnnce,
Vt ias tho-iught for oome t-Lrqo tha1, t thIe G 1 iont o
Indlonesia, decicded not to uursue wha), t I lbelieve is called
the polifcy cf " confrontain! on, this matter in other
~~ orrs a-4. li L atitude of criticisim1 and even of
hostJ. 1!_ t,-and there/ rertto no-ticoe tha-t Dr. Socks ma
has apparently Peneied IIs 1'--ubli*_ c crituicmor of the idea
-nisno wv -romoting the idao" e.-dtrinto and
pb. oieall of which coaunds a lit.' tle odd, whon onie
re~ sri~~ that the publio statements that have been made
of, lante aotWest 1Iew & Gineai have appeared to e -: Chib it
an inter4ion not to have a p-lebiscito oand. not Lto hcave0
-elf ina t iod Tbi,. J i all very odd, We would nsed
to have a god1 d eal of clarifica: tion on it, I ' think.
any eventL-, the po~ ieachievement in relatont
1a-asay ins Ict hink, vCJ'yimpotant S3 far as Southern
Rhodesia is concerned, wephps iLn " ustralia ha--e not'
f olojwed thicE mritter asclosely as 1,, e MigSht ha-ve.
Southern Rhodesia has been, as a self-overni-ng colon~ y,
asscociated in a cens-e with the Commonwealth for a very
lonc time. i first m'-Iifestecl mylself In a P Z 4roje
Ministers' Conference vwhon L. vasn' a Prime Minister,
' but was actinlT s dcej egate for Mr. Lyons, and that ViOS
0 0 C .1.
( Cent inu~ e c) bpolr in 1-935, Two yefrrs r'rtht SiGo'eyIu; n
as, the Primp, . nister ofc uhrfiRoeiahdbe
-oreent, Ther'o is rne disprositicn, 1 tIiq
Southern Rhodesc~ ia, . Li some r~ cctherep to ' believe
that that means that ISuuthern Rhod-esi1a has been a
member of" the Commrronwealth for the . wh~ ole of th-at period
o-f t i. 2Ihis of course is not right. In effect : f-r-stof
all, through Si-Gcodfrey Huggins, and at er on
th-rough ' S ir 1Rocy We Ie nsk y. f ir st ESo u th ern P hcd e s ia and
then -the Federationr have b-een present at PrPime Ministers?
mecetings in effect as observers svery welcome
cb e, ves e a -L part*'-icul2 ar t here is a vry old
assoc" iation between Great B-iitain and 0outhern Rhodesia
and, wi* 6h-t'he FBeo'o,_ poan p opjulat icn in Southoryn Rho e sia~,
But the f. act is tha t at pre sen~ t; SOuthorn Rhodlesia,
n~ rin~ the final detc-tainatitun of the Federation, ics
not a member of the C n eat it is only as an
4ndezendent nation that-a nationi co(). n bea a member of the
Cocamm con w e l1th p a ndc thcrPe f rre aft c-r i. nd e: erntIe n c c e
q11e-_: tJorL vi. ll arise as to. w hethcr Scutheri, Rhodes*!. abecomes
a member of the Cormoneal1th or not and that
wlof course, d~ ep,-end primarily on teveso h
FPrie Ministevs in the C.. ommnwealth as it now stands
and we aire now quiJte a nukmerous I dcn't cz
that * bh-, is very C learJzy u'ndc_,' strocd. Certain
conversations, I had with repCres-, entatViveS of Southern
!' hod! esia atorsuggoestoe&" thot _ J was not, but the
efecuf itall is thllat if SouthDer.-PRhodesia, " te
, t in being dis olved, is toc be-ome a memibe:-r of thae
Cora~ onwalth, then there will need to be some sa tJi rjf" yig. 0
o~ the minds of existing CL: -: IoncAlth oit rioS a to
, the nraturel of the fronchjme in Southern 11hodesia and the)
proo] pectq that within a measurable time there will * bc
in efec a mjorty in the Legislative ' ssemnbly, or
whatever it may be calledl, ro-presenting the indigenous
nha! bit.-nts-.,, Of course9 this. is a problemn which gives
ri~ se -to a good d eal of emtion as well as a grcoc deal
of rational1 arg1unent,, All I neccd sa,. y is thlat Mr. Butler,
who has boo-n s--oeiti" Ll chairgcd waiih the negotiations,
has made proposals, the nature of which i am no at
liber-ty to islos bu~ t which see-m1 toL.; m c to be
re a onable ipro') os-ls and a substantial step in the
ultimate dirctir'n, How fo"-r that ha s bcen accepta-cle1
I donlt know;,, Something may have ha) Tened on my way
home. that I cn not awiare cof. But frcm the pocint of
view of the Ceinmoneltn it. e it is, 9 T think /, 1
on ueM important that ESoutflorn . hdca should,_ be a ~ ro'Arof
It has in hietefc, saitc wi. th the Cc11orwon~ eoltU.
w~ hich one would: be extrcmely sorr-y to lose Linf frcm-the
-OJint of Southe-Iiho õ -esia itselfteeSmstmeo
be gre-nt i-iportrnces in the relationship tha't she
achieves with the Cnmlmor-i,* ealth. Her lair.' est cmDort
industry, ft. r example 9 is tobaccoi which -t p) rese: nt
enjoys Comzmonweilth refcrencas, and I can' t see mlch
avtage to Southern 11hodesia in being outsicdle the
Comriinne 1lh. IT do() n ' t d ct ectl a ny grroa t CLesoi re( onr th e
mart of their rejpresentat* ives to join up) with the Union
of So uth AIiivca noi can I see any a~ tva. n1Ua7gcb fo~ r them
in being an entirely so--arate, inCde-ondent nati-on,
unassociated wiith tU1A Unioni o.-n the South, unass-ciatead
with the Ccrriinwelth inf genieral. In othor words, this
is the crucial period, I think, in the history of
Souterr Phdesa., It hns been attrcigaretea
of cttent1io: n in Lcndon9 very natujrally, andfl Mr. Butler
is very seric-usly de-vc-tAng groat talents to this
The other mnatter tha cameo undecr disclussiun thereY
wns the I.-roblei of the test ba--n. Now, the Prime Minister
of G-relst Britain and the P--reside-nt cf the Uni-ted States
and, for that matter, my cown cGavernnment, attach
importance to-securing a test ba-rinoa a fir. st practical
measure in a pro) gra. mmie of dis.-rmament,. Mruch more
pr. actical than so: me other mattecrs that have been raised,
because a-suxming god i and aosumJ. ng a w,, illin-nass to
expse otivities to acereasonable insp-ection,' there
would, not seem to be iJnsup ezrble Cliff2. cul1tes a bout an
internationa-l agreement tha-t furthei? te sts will osase,
I don't , want to-Tbcin to o ffee rjy views , as to whvkat the
French attitude to this rna-. ter might be because General
DU GaCulle ha,. s !? Ahor taken a line o-f his own, ' but I
thinkr-thnt overf;. ojy will Qgro that in the first
~. ntancagreemrn etenhe SoviA Union anad Great
Dritain and the United Stnte s of .! Zparfca on thi'e banning
offurther nuclear testswudbamtero et
encouragement to the world and1 a vary ,,-owerful step in
the direction of reducin-: ccension and reducingcomptiton0I
don't undertake to. say what is going to
hapr-. on to, the bulk o~ f these talks, buvt I am bound to
say ' that bcth in DL-. nd1on andf Wa-shington, I felt there
was an ntmo--s-ahere, no-t of Jespir on this mnatter, but
what I will call rotrin :,~ timicm. Anda: one of the
thin, 7-that ima,, y vepy w,, ell af-Zfect this io, that there is
P. M.
( Continued). undoubtedly a very deep gulf between Chinese Communists
and the Ccraimnist of the Soviet Union. This is not
a mere matter of words; as we all know from reading
the news from day to day there are very big differences.
I think myself that the Soviet Union-it seems odd when
one looks back a few years the Soviet Union feels that
the aggressive quality of Chinese Communism is something
that is to be resisted. The Soviet Union itself has
been, I think, rather more willing to negotiate than
it was in the past and I attach great importance in
this connection to the remarkable perfrmnance of
President Kennedy over the Cuba matter a performance
which I think has undoubtedly given a check to
agressiveness on the part of the Soviet Union and
produced a state of mind in which we may well hope to
have agreement on such matters as the test ban. And
that attitude on the part of the Soviet Union, of course,
can very well be affected by this increasing friction
between the Soviet Union and Communist China a certain
feeling of apprehension about the large Communist
neighbour. And that is why this seems to be tne right
time for the Western powers to pursue their negotiations
with Mr. Khrushchev and to pursue them in the atmosphere
that an agreement is possible on this and perhaps other
matters, yrovided there is a realistic state of mind and
provided, of course, that there is some goodwill and a
desire for peace. The President of the United States
and the Secretary of State, Mr. Rusk, both, if I may say
so, seem to me tc have grown in authority in the handling
of the international affairs.
I know one reads occasionally about internal politics
in the United States. I don't profess to understand
them very clearly.. There is always some friction,
Well, we are not unfamiliar with that in our own
country. But these two-very important for us and for
the world seem to me, in the handling of the
international matters, to have acquired increasing
authority. It has been said in various quarters that
there are reasons for dispute or matters for dispute
between Mr. Macmillan and President Kennedy over some
of the NATO problems. I think it proper to say that I
found on both sides a very healthy personal friendly
relationship between them. I think that it is quite
clear that Mr. Macmillan and President Kennedy are in
constant communication, always meet as friends,
always discuss things with frankness and that any / 6
P. M. sugerest~ on-that the,-re i~ s some division betw-, een thiem-* tia-
( Contd0might be of JInmense im-rortarnce O', ihit to be rjc~ ted. T
donit believe -the3re will be with' th-e agreement ofeiL
of thlemi0 Thaey both wesnt to continue their close
a ssociation, So th,. at sumi1ng it all'I ol syta. m
general imnprE ssion is on'Ce of some easing in . Soviet 7nionidestern
tension, particularly since Cuba: some stimulus
tthtincreasing understuandin-arising from the differences"
the Sino-Russion differences and that as betLween theo United
StI.-ates alnd th-e United KS~ ngdoin th-. e relItions are very good,
very hecalthy, vary, constr1' uctive-and th-at wheon theoy say., as
they did ' Dft-re their last meecti-* ng th-at nuaibe-r one is the:-
test ban,. they mecan it:. and they both mean t,, o do thieir bes~ t
to achlieve i'tt,
Ipa Id a hasty visit -to Ottawa. I wanted to see Mr,
Pearson is (-an old f: i'iend of mine, He asa bit'. ou-t of
aCtion. because he had had a sJlighat throat operau'ion. So I
went out to h-is country nouse and ve ha-d a couple of h1-ours
together. has sonie probloms ofIL curse. Yo-will1 be
astonished whien I tell you thot they cief] 7'. y rolate tIo thle
3ud ge t, Not 3altogethaer about the sutstance of the10 Budget,
but to some extent about hoic g it camne to be prepared.
Whethaer thaat is going to bo trouble thIa t coc. n t inue7s 92L
wouldnTt like to ! udge. The11, Libcral Governme-nt there
remains in office ith thia sujppaert of a couple off mincrity
0zroupsc~ nu as th-e mainority groups, aSfrasIcnjde
hia-ve both lost some seats at the lasL e-lection0 it may be
thiough-t that there will be a considerable anti -diS sol'ut-on
par-ty in thieir ranks. However, thnat is not any business.
We. ll,-now would anybody like to probe ine a l-ttle
on theaco tb1ingsZk
Q U EST 1 CIh R Sir, ycu ntioncd thei auestienl of a Budget a few
minutes agc. Hero in Australia, Mr. I. IEiwen has said he wants
bolder econoixc ro-licios for, eXpanzsion. Mr, Bolt hsacid
wansrt a 13udgot bansed con groi-th and prosperity0 Would you
lik.. -to give your views on it?
F'JI0 You find a material1 difference between tiaose. doc you?
Q-Not necessarily.
P. M. 1110i l I will, kn2ow miore abcit. tha)-t hen the Budget)-' comres out,,
Let; 1: 0 rennind you thaizt whe-n thie Dadget is produccd. it w1ill
he the 25ad. get-of thie Gove.-rmnt and therefore of everybody
in it,
Q ~ Could Mr(, Prinic Minister, gi,: e u~ s thei tieoA-cqbl*' e Of the
Budget preparations'?
W start ab'out the end of this weekc, I thi nk, dontt i,+ e?
We hnave sonie inter-views with thLose outside bodic.. in the
next three day 0
That is before theic Cabine'. iotings?
P. W4. Yes. ~ ewill. h-ave theSO fi rst, and theon we. will1 got into
the Biudget discussions, 1 3-oealIly ought to know. Somebody
may knew0
1MR. FTO0LT~ Tuesday afternoon,,
I1) 0Wel there you aio, ooo6 0/ o7
7-
Sir, 2 there seem~ s to be somne ba slc ccrf ic U bat-. ! ecn Mr,
McEwen's views as exunessd at Orange recen2tly and It-hce
views and po-Licies ofL thae Governmnent,,
I-think it is ver,-y unkind of you as soon as I have returned
and had a refreshing sleep to want me to go and re-ad all the
newspaper reports of what11 somebody has said and thaen begin
to sit in judgmient on them. You have to remember , bouat the
Ca bint that we are a comoosite o ; ome it is tu
It worko very satisfCactorily we think, and Ihas for a long
time and this idea that there are two views is one th1-at I
reject. When thec Budget iJS produced ilet me repeat this
will the Budget of-1 the-Govern,-ment0 I directed a lot
of time and energ2y Some tim~ e eaio1L'er to exrplaining that it
waslilt Yr. Holu-' s Butdget that it'u was mine Lind -that it wa~ s
thei Bud get o-f everybcily celseo wacas in the-. Cabir Ct,
Ministers are human beings; he all L ive different views.
Thaey w Il" l com: along and we will stGart off iwithn te(, n
dlifferent views aboutC any partioular itcir o: tlhe. Budget,
We w. 1ll end up 1-with. one and that will be tLhe view of the
Gover-nmont,
Siir, on that could yvou say waetoihcr or not you think the
Budget shoul1d be more cixlpanasionary thiLJs time?
P M. I have no o-pinion en it at al'! 2. have just -ecoived on my
table a val. uable imss of do--umje. ts f-,, ro Vae Treasurer whlinh
wI enable mo to study theo facts and T have an old-fa shionedl
preojud. J. co in fEavour of understanding iacts beoroe I offer
opinions,
QO Do you thinkn-1 thU'at Mr. Khx'usiichev will _-can inore towards
President Kennedy now that h-o is having so m~ quchL trouble tLa
Cormunist 01rina? That thero miglbt be a chan-ce of closer
t ies there?
IK; MO % My owii view, and 1, only my own view. is thact th!-is friction
witha ConiuniS. t China, this c-rowing gll I h1ave hear. d that
word used -betwv5eer. them will +. end to give Mr. Khrushchav a
mori. e amen,) abl-at'titLude out it that -way -in his
: colaticns wihthe dest. In other,--. woirds i f he has w hat he
regards a-s rival-Is and potential oppononts on one f lank, he
may be very uch more disposod tCo think tat a polily of
live and let liv wihtUreto he world may suit hr
Arid indeed a > Lnt of hiis oim people m'ay increas. I~ rgly thninkl
Doyuhnk tha Li policy hLas beean well discussed in
Commni~ st Ci' ne se c . cl es 17that tl-, ey are worried about this
possibIlity thz-t he l1io0at: 2oro towar.,. ds Kas tea-n
pinciplos?
P i11. Well, 9 I can't speak for the Chinese. I don -t know, Nor
indeed cEan 1 speak', for Mr,, Khnrishcheov, My own view is that
thi. differences between wqhqt cal) Il for th1-is purpose the
iRussi'ans and tlie Chi-nese in the Cormunist world is a dfeec
which does no hLarm wvith rolations with the Wstern world,
but may tend ultimatlely to improve thaeme1 At any rate to
relax them, 2 to take somle of-1 th-e tension out of the matter,,
si 9 just coming back1 to tho local scene again. T he re has3
been ouite a lot of discussiLon as to wheither there w,, ill be
a redistribution this year and pcirICaps an a2erly election.
o v o o e / 8
8
P. M~ Tiel, as soon s I kniow the &:. nz-, rer to tha t quest4on~ Iwl
announce it.
Q. ~ Sir Robert. can you answer it to this extent have you
any timetable of when you willl discuss redistribution with
Mr. McEwon?
P. M. No, but it will have to be soon,
Sir Robert did you ask President Kennedy about a visit
by{ hima to Au1straiia daring taie talks withi him this time?
P4M% 1 Ve had a general discussion about that matter, but 1 am not
in a position at pr~ esent to say anything,
Sir Robert.. i~ n vr: oew, of your imfpr s ; ion t~ lnt the tronsion is
easing, does that rake any d: Lffoei. roco to youri Governirint's
atLitude to d., efence in vie-! of the statemen-t you made?
No. Look, a defence prograrmm e is not soilething that can
fluctuate froma day to day according to wlaetfter the weather
signals are bOetter or worse, You Lave take a muc,!, l longer
view than that.
But -the sense of urgency is growing?
P. M4. I still bave a considerable sense of urgency about the whole
problem, yes,
Q. ~ There has been -a lot of speculation, Sir Robe-rt while you
were overseas about the prospect of an early Federal
election. iDo you have anything to say oni ti'sT
P. M, 11o, would yoxu o:* iPcct me to? I wouald havo -to abandon 7:, 11
claims to Laving any knowledge of political tactics wouldn't
17 _ f Ista--tcd to answer that k-ind of questin. Wnni
happens you will kniow0
Q. Sir Poberot there(_ La,. s also boen while you were away
a 7ot-,. cL discussion about the namne TrSy lt" h erie any
chanrce that :, ru may review the Gabinet' decis-1on and chango
that rnane?
P. M. Well, I would h.-ve to find out from my colleague the
Treasurer if heL, 0, We had a discufs-sion j11 the ~ bto
ttiis matter an. d caneii out with. cu G i I notice a
considerpable amount of specull-tiC'f as to who di~ d it and
iiho made the casting vote. I road all this with great
interost, My: favourite form of f-ict-ion,
Wou: Ld you allow a -free; vote of theo Parliament on it?
P0I will say nothing about that at tho present time0
Q. Do you like the nameio " royal" Sir?
P. M. Yes.
Q. Is it your name, Sir?.
P. M. No, My name -is Menzies. As a mpatter of fact, tho0 most
powe r ful argumelnt in the worl d was unt~ il it was answere . d
that the name ought t'Vo be " pound". I was most attracted by
the idea myself call it a new pound, just as the French
0,06000~/ 9
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P 0M.
Cont d)
P oMo
P. M. o
P. HM. called it a new franc. The technical answers to that were
tremendously powerful. All right in the case of France;
you move a decimal point two to the left because you
already had a decimal system, so the new franc was got not
by altering the system but by an alteration of the decimal
point, But a new pound based on the decimal currency,
operating what for two years, ide by side with an old
pound ( non-decimal), and in fact at twice the value would
produce so our experts advised us, and I accept it, the
most in olerable confusion, because it will take a long time
to change over the accounting machines, tne cash registers,
all this kind of thing, and the confusion between a pound of
one breed and a pound of another, one being decimal and the
other being non-decimal, was too much to contemplate. So
I myself, if you are interested, withdrew my advocacy for the
use of the word " pound" which would have otherwise suited
me, my personal view, very woll,
Sir, are you worried about trends in overseas investment in
Australia? I am not. No, I road the other day a statement made by Mr
Holt, the Treasurer, on this mratter, answering something that
had beon said by some Opposition spokesman, and if I may say
so, I thought it completely accurate, This doesntt mean that
we deny the possibility of problems in the future, but it
does mean that looking at the matter now, , w see advantages
which outweigh the disadvantages in the flow of capital into
this country, And we would be pretty sorry for ourselves if
it stopped tomorrow. There are two ways of stopping it
deado One is to prohibit it by scme means or other, and the
other is to attach such rigid conditions to it a: 3 to
discourage it, and capital being a shy bird it very easily
fls awayo We as a nation have no reason o complain if we
receive a tremendous inflow of capital, Our development in
Australia would have been less if we hadn't received this
confidence and practicable working investment You have
always to keep two things in mind. One is that capital
which merely comes in to buy something out that is one
kind of thing, That is the kind of thing we scrutinise
very carofully, But capital. private capital . rhich comes
in to create an industry to develop some product in
Australia, to increase employment in Australia, this is
of tremendous value to us, In past elections I have had a
certain amount of fun addressing meetings at say, Ford in
Geelong, and inviting the Labour voters standing in front
of me to consider whether they are opposed to capital
coming into Australia from overseas. In other words, whether
they are opposed to the jobs they nave,
Did you encounter Hioffr-on in his porogrinations in
search of capital?
I didn't see him with the eye, but hear rumours of him with
the earo I didn't actually see him. Wait a moment, I am
wrong. I think I said good-day to him in London at the
Reception. I apologise
Has he achieved anything of any great moment at all?
I couldn't tell you that, All I know is that the Commonwealth
representatives around the world have been doing
their best and devoting a considerable amount of time to
helping these State roprosentatives, I heard very good
reports in America of what Mr,, 3rcnd had been doing. ® o / i'O
10
Q. Sir Robert is it embarrassing for the Corr onwealth
representatives to have these State Premiers and officers
moving around the world in apparent conflict?
P. M. Well, you see, that is a loaded question " in apparent
conflicto" I think their experience is that when State
representatives are going around the world their relations
with the Commonwealth representatives are the most
harmonious in the world. It is only up here that we get
differences,
QO Sir Robert we are associated with the UK,/ Malayan defence
agreement through an unpublished exchange of letters. Can
you give us some indication of what type of conmitment in
Malaysia is contemplated?
PoM, No I can't because we have none at present. This is all a
matter that has to be discussed. You say that we are
associated, We are not. Great Britain has a defence
agreement with Malaya and has indicated her willingness to
extend it to Malaysia, that is to say when Malaysia comes
into existence. It will not be very shortly,, Our relations
with Malaya on the defence side have been indirect7 through
the Commonwealth Brigade the reserve, We have not,
ourselves, had direct obligations to Malaya in that field,
but we have come in on the side so to speak of Great
Britain, Whether we should now make a defence agreement
with Malaysia a direct defence agreement in which
obligations are accepted is a matter which has yet to
be discussed I had some discussion about it in London,
That is true, But as a Cabinet matter, this has yet to
be discussed because up to now, Malaysia has been a concept
and not a facto Now that Malaysia becomes a fact, the
time arises when we have to determine what we are prepared
to do in that field and there are many aspects that have
to be considered
Qo Will it be in the near future, Sir, that discussion?
P. M. I don't know. I daresay we will be concentrating our minds
on the Budget in the next week. Without undue delay.
Q. I am thinking, Sir, in relation to defence ' discussions
that have been going on for some time at home here.
P. Mo What defence?
Qo Our own. defence policy. Would it be related to that?
PM. Well, look, you are asking me to anticipate a problem,
Suppose the Commonwealth Governmont said, " Well, we are
prepared to make some agreement with Malaysia," Then-. the
next question would be " To what extent, in what form,
through what arms." The next question would be Are
they to be additional to what we already have or are they
to represent a different disposition of the forces that
we now have or will have under our programme?" These
problems are not to be disposed of by a sweeping sentence,
I assure you,
Qo Did you have any discussions with President Kennedy on
defence and trade that you can tell us about? 0 a 0 a 0 0/ 1 1
11
P. M. No I did not have any discussions on trade, My colleagu.
had been there only a week or two before. He had had very
full discussions and had had some very useful ones in all
places and I didn't see any reason to duplicate them.
Q, Did you discuss the question of the position of Australian
New Guinea either with Kennedy or the U. oN administration?
P. Mo Well, I think that apart from reiterating the proposition
two propositions we didn't have any, The two propositions
were first, to repeat what I had said in the House
that the defence of Australian New Guinea and Papua was
regarded by us in exactly the sam way as the defence of
our mainland and that any overt attack on it would be
resisted in the same way; I repeated that, That is well
understood, In the second place oi course, it is well
understcod and agreed that should such an event occur,
ANZUS would operate and we would have the assistance cf
the United States of America, These , re two things....
there is nothing new about them, I have said them time
after time. They are worth repeating so that there will
be no room for error in any other country,
Q Si. r Robert, proposals have been reported for the Western
air defence of India Will Australia be associated with
mnerica and Britain in this regard?
PM. I woul. dn't say anything about that at the present timeo
Certainly we have no obligation to do so. As to what
discussions may have occurred as the result of some of
these investigation teams I am not up to datoo You may
take it that we have entered into no new obligation in
that fieldo
Qo While you wero in London did you discuss the possibility
of any future Royal Visits perhaps Princess Margaret?
P. M. No, I didn't have a discussion about that, No, I think
I will say that this has got nothi: ng to do with Princess
Mar garet
q, I was going to ask about the Queen Mothero.. o.
P. M. Yes, I know you wore. Well, there is nothing I can say
about that at present.
Qo Sir Robert, in your discussions with the loaders of the
world as Prime Minister of Australia, how did they feel there
about Australia? What do they look on Australia as being?
Why I said that question, I will explain it Sir. We have
so many business leaders that como back and they seem to be
preoccupied by the thought that Australia has to have more
money to go in advance Now, we know full and well that
we are pretty well set up in Australia. Is this a question
largely thought of overseas?
FoMO I don't know what you mean by " pretty well set up".
Q. We have a country here which is going ahead by leaps and
bounds. We have so much to offer in Australia. Does it
look to these world leaders the men with whom you have
discussed and talked to, that we will have to have all
overseas capital to go ahead with our plans in the future
or do they look on Australia as a land of opportunity or
look on it as a land where things are just a * ooo/ 12
12.
PMo I see, It would be a mistake to think that the relationship
between us is that we are begging for help, so to speak,
because we are noto They look on us as a strong country,
as a friendly country. They look on us as a growing
country. They think, particularly in their business fields
that this is a land of opportunity and they are much more
affected by the attraction that they feel towards the
Australian opportunity than they are to any argumentative
view that may be put, urging them or begging them or
something of that kind. That is not our position, We
are not regarded, in other words, as a sort of poor relation.
On the contrary, we are looked upon both in the United States
and in the United Kingdom as a pretty good relation, a
relation that will someday be a rich relation, or as I
think as Compton McKenzie said, a rich relative,
Q. Did President Kennedy ask us to assume any extra defence
obligations in this part of the world?
P. M. No. I told President Kennedy about our recent expansion
of the defence programme and the contingent addition to
that which would arise on a Canberra replacement on which
there is an evaluation team at this moment. I think they
have reached America. I told him all about that. He was
extremely interested in it but not any more than that,
Q, Sir Robert, is there any possibility of Australia being
asked to conduct a fact-finding mission to Southern
Rhodesia?
P. M. I think perhaps I would prefer to answer that by saying
that there is no possibility that we will conduct one,
I think I am right in saying that almost every Commonwealth
country has been asked by the Government of Southern
Rhodesia to send somebody, but that is not a proposal that
attracts me at all. We are not settling the problem of
Southern Rhodesia We have got enough of our own, We are
not going to be the people who have to advise as to who
ought to have a vote in Southern Rhodesia. I have been
concerned in this matter chiefly from a constitutional
point of view as it affects the Commonwealth and quite
frankly, I donTt want to see Southern Rhodesia out of
the Commonwealth. They are one of our old friends, o But
whether they are in the Cononwealth or not will depend,
not upon us, our view, so much as what happens over the
next few weeks in relation to their discussions with
Mr. Butler and to their own decisions as to what, if
anything, they are going to do about the franchise,
But we have no abmitions to be busybodies, you know,
Quite enough busybodies in the world without us joining
their ranks,