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PRIME MINISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH PAUL LYNEHAM, 7.30 REPORT,
AUGUST 1990
E OE PROOF ONLY
LYNEHAM: Prime Minister thanks for joining us.
PM: It's a pleasure Paul.
LYNEHAM: Are we now unofficially at war with Iraq?
PM: No. We're not at war with Iraq. The primary purpose
of Australia's participation in this multinational naval
force will be to assist in the enforcement of the
blockade on Iraq and Kuwait.
LYNEHAM: But we could find ourselves shooting at them
couldn't we?
PM: Well the enforcement that we're talking about
hopefully doesn't lead to that. But I want to make it
quite clear that if there was any suggestion that there
was a desire on the part of the United States to escalate
the involvement of the Australian naval asset beyond
enforcement to some actual aggressive involvement beyond
that function then it's understood that there'd be
further discussion about that.
LYNEHAM: And we're there until the Iraqis pull out of
Kuwait? PM: Once this Government makes a decision to be part of
a process we're there to see it through.
LYNEHAM: He's got at least six months worth of grain,
much of it bought from us on credit, he can hold out for
a while can't he, in terms of basic feeding his people?
PM: Well you have also got to understand that the Iraqi
economy depends to an enormous extent upon its export
income and that is already being very seriously affected,
there are no tankers now loading up at the end of the
pipelines across Turkey and across Saudi Arabia. So I
think you' re not looking at that sort of period of time,
but the important thing Paul is that we've made the
decision. It's a serious decision, well thought through,
taking everything into account. Now you don't make a
decision like that and say oh well we'll be here for a
couple of days and see you later.
LYNEHAM: And ultimately the forces will be under the
command of Australia as a sovereign nation, but perhaps
American control?
PM: Yes, the Royal Australian Naval Ships will be under
Royal Australian Naval command, but operationally and
this is the language of forces, operationally they may be
under the control of the United States. Hopefully, and I
say this from the point of view of the United States as
well as Australia, it may be that at some stage it may
emerge as a United Nations flag operation, but it's not
regarded as appropriate to wait until that may emerge.
LYNEHAM: Do you think the UN flag will be flying over
this force eventually?
PM: I can't make that assertion, I certainly express the
hope and from the long conversation I had with George
Bush on the phone this morning he would like to see that
I know.
LYNEHAM: Prime Minister how does it feel personally to
be a key figure in a decision that could, quite
realistically, see Australians killed and maimed?
PM: You don't arrive at these decisions lightly, I can
say very seriously that I've thought about this issue for
hours and hours and hours over several days and have
discussed it with a range of people.
LYNEHAM: Have they got any rights on their side, the
Iraqis, I mean they lay historic claim to Kuwait, you
could hardly describe the Kuwaiti regime as a paradigm of
democracy? PM: They have no rights to assert their position by
aggression and annexation. Each country has a right to
explain and try and negotiate and achieve a settlement of
a dispute. So that's not in issue. But what is very
very much in issue as far as the rest of the world, and
certainly as far as I'm concerned and the Australian
Government is concerned, is that we have laid down too
many Australian lives in two world wars to fight for the
concept of the freedom and the rights of nations to stand
idly by when those rights are threatened.
LYNEHAM: Some will say historically we've been in nearly
every major stoush since the Crimean War. We always seem
to be among the first in and the last out. I mean where
are the Canadians? Where are the New Zealanders? Where
are most of the Europeans?
PM: Well let me take those in order. The Canadians.
I've had two conversations with Brian Mulroney by phone.
I can say that they are deeply in the process of
considering their position. Now it's not for me to
announce upon what will come out of Canada. But I
believe from the conversations I've had with Prime
Minister Mulroney that you will see Canadian decisions
not inconsistent with what we've done. I've spoken also,
I had a call today from Geoffrey Palmer go to New
Zealand next. They are in the position where they want
to do something. They'll be considering the matter on
Monday. But they haven't got naval assets which are
capable of doing what we're doing. But I can say that
the Prime Minister of New Zealand raised with me in
approving not that we needed his approval but in
expressing his approval of what we've done, raising the
question as to whether New Zealand naval capacities may
be able to pick up some vacuum left by the despatch of
our forces. So there's New Zealand's position. You then
mention Western Europe. Now, two things to be said
about. Firstly there are already the presence of Western
European forces there the British, Italians and the
Dutch. And secondly, that NATO is meeting today in Paris
where the question of their involvement will be further
discussed in detail. So I have no doubt that we will see
a significant Western European involvement as well.
LYNEHAM: You mentioned earlier today the prospect of
Japanese involvement. What grounds do you have for that
PM: I've this is a matter I discussed with the
President, George Bush, at length this morning on the
phone. Now obviously I can't properly go into details of
that discussion but it's possible I think that there may
be some Japanese involvement. They have identified
themselves LYNEHAM: a military nature?
PM: Well, it is conceivable.
LYNEHAM: Even though they are supposed to be a self
defence force?
PM: Well you can say obviously, can't you, that the
defence of all nations is involved in ensuring that
aggression is checked.
LYNEHAM: How did President Bush sound this morning?
He's under a lot of strain at the moment. Was his
demeanour relaxed?
PM: Well he sounded first of all confident, he sounded
buoyant. But there was certainly no flippancy about him.
He explained
LYNEHAM: It's head to head with him and Hussein really
isn't it now, on the world stage?
PM: Well, on the world stage it's important that it not
just be the head of George Bush. It's very important
that the rest of the world which values the principles,
self-determination and the integrity, the territorial
integrity of sovereign states, as we do and as the United
States does, that others stand shoulder to shoulder on
these issues.
LYNEHAM: What happens though if tomorrow night for
example Suddam Hussein takes some of the Australians in
Baghdad, puts them up against a wall and shoots them and
says there will be six more tomorrow night unless you
back down?
PM: That's
LYNEHAM: It's not inconceivable is it?
PM: That's an hypothesis that I'm not going to pursue in
detail, other than to say this
PM: Do you doubt he's capable of it?
PM: Well his behaviour in the past has been less than
rational, and against his own people, let alone against
LYNEHAM: Chemical weapons against the Kurds.
PM: Not only against Kurds but the shooting of his own
officers who don't agree with him. So we're talking
about an individual who is certainly capable of
irrational behaviour. But we considered very carefully
before we made this decision the safety of Australians.
It's been a matter of hourly concern for us. Let me say
to the people of Australia that our diplomatic
representatives in Saudi Arabia and in Baghdad itself, in
Jordan, are continuously working to do everything they
can to ensure the safety of Australians. But I know that
the people of Australia, because their history proves it,
their history proves it, are not a people who are going
to succumb to threats.
0 LYNEHAM: And Bob Hawke won't succumb to threats like
that? PM: Bob Hawke is not a reckless leader of his country.
But I am conscious of the history of my country. I'm
conscious of the principles which are deeply held by the
overwhelming majority of Australians. I believe that
they would expect me to be true to those traditions and
those principles. And I will be.
LYNEHAM: And what of Iraqis here in Australian tonight
who may feel very bitter about your decision and may like
to take some very precipitate action of their own? Do we
have now a domestic security problem here?
PM: I don't think so. I mean we always have well in
place, Paul, the appropriate security measures and I'm
sure that all that needs to be done properly and
appropriately will be done.
LYNEHAM: And if George Bush rings in a week or two and
says could you send a couple more ships or perhaps some
ground troops or some Fl8s, what do you say then?
PM: Well let me say this, that the contribution that
we've made now is a very significant one and is so
regarded by our population size, seventeen million. The
contribution of two frigates and a supply ship is a very
very significant contribution, and as I say, is so
understood. So I would not be expecting that there would
be any further requests. I simply say that if any
further request were made, we would consider it, analyse
it and see if in all the circumstances anything more was
appropriate. But I'd be very surprised if anything more
was asked for.
LYNEHAM: Prime Minister, thanks for your time.
PM: It's been my pleasure Paul. Thank you.
ends