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PRIME MINISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF NEWS CONFERENCE, SHANGRI-LA HOTEL, KUALA
LUMPUR, 22 OCTOBER 1989
E 0 E PROOF ONLY
JOURNALIST: Mr Hawke, what's your response to the CHOGM
declaration on South Africa? Are you happy with the with
the way it worked out?
PM: Yes, the declaration has embraced the five point plan
that I proposed at the meeting here, it's been embraced. I
think we now have a basis on which the Commonwealth, we can
proceed to build upon the combination of external and
internal pressures that have developed to give some evidence
now of change, the beginnings of change in South Africa.
JOURNALIST: The fact that Margaret Thatcher, the leader of
the biggest and most influential nation, wouldn't support the
thrust of your package, doesn't that in a very significant
way damage its effectiveness?
PM: No, I don't believe so. of course if you read the
declaration you'll find that what the British Government has
done is to associate themselves with most of the declaration
but particular paragraphs in which they indicate they can't
accept. But significantly there's no dissent from the
British Government on that important part of the declaration
which calls on the rest of the world to apply the existing
sanctions that are being applied. Now I regard that as a
very significant development.
JOURNALIST: is it a softening of the line?
PM: By the British?
JOURNALIST: Yes.
PM: Well it's not for me to insert what the British
Government are doing in terms of hardening or softening. I
mean you would need those questions of Mrs Thatcher. But I
don't want to be carping about Mrs Thatcher because I think
she found herself in a difficult position in that the rest of
the Commonwealth countries have a unanimous position, she has
differences of emphasis in regard to certain matters,
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( PM cont) including particularly the force of sanctions.
But I think that Mrs Thatcher attempted to be as cooperative
as she could be given the position that she's got and
certainly with the statement that has come out of Langkawi we
do have a position I think of very considerable strength.
JOURNALIST: Has Mrs Thatcher finally acknowledged that
sanctions are doing the job?
PM: Well it's very difficult for anyone, whether it's Mrs
Thatcher or not, to take any other position when the leading
officials within South Africa, both of Government, the
Minister for Finance and the late Governor of the Reserve
Bank have themselves asserted two things that I said at the
press conference here before, the two things that are
important. One, that sanctions are having a very significant
effect of constraint upon economic growth in South Africa;
and secondly, associated with that acknowledgement, the
statement that those things will continue until such time as
they get their political act right. Now when leading South
African figures are saying that, it doesn't come easily for
anyone else to deny those facts.
JOURNALIST: Is there an assumption in the statement that if
South Africa doesn't do anything in the next six months that
the Commonwealth will impose some sort of tougher sanctions?
PM: I think you read it for what it says. That is that I
think as a Commonwealth we have been proper in acknowledging
that with the election of President de Kierk there has been
some indications of change. We have not been taken in by
those changes to say that the end of apartheid is in sight
but we have, I think, responsibly said that it makes sense to
give some period of time to see whether those embryonic
changes are fleshed out into more significant moves. That's
why I said in my intervention here before we left Kuala
Lumpur that it seemed to me that it would be appropriate for
the Committee of Foreign Minister to meet about April. That
position has been embraced within the Langkawi declaration on
South Africa. Now that will mean that in that period of six
months we can see whether, as I put it before, the executive
decisions are taken which are capable of being taken before
the Parliament meets. Now we're taking, as it were, a
positive and optimistic view that some of these changes will
take place and so that if that were the case you wouldn't
need to be considering whether in fact you can put more
pressure on. I think the Commonwealth has expressed the view
that it's going to position itself to consider that
possibility if it's necessary and speaking for myself and I
guess my opinion is significant in that it's our
proposals that have formed the foundation of the
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( PM cant) Commonwealth's statement on South Africa I think
that it is important that we give an indication of hope and
take a positive approach that these changes will occur. Let
me say this: that you would appreciate that I've had now
lengthy discussions here and at the Retreat with the leaders
of the frontline African States and I can say that it is
their hope too that these positive changes that we've already
seen will grow and develop so that there is no need to
consider a strengthening of action. Indeed, it's the hope of
all of us that we could reach a position where sanctions
could be eased because you'll recall the language I've used
that we've never wanted sanctions f or the sake of sanctions,
the phrase I have used, and which has recommended itself to
my colleagues in the Commonwealth is that sanctions are to
bring South Africa not to it's knees but to the negotiating
table. JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, if can I just ask one question.
Mrs Thatcher says that the impact of sanctions has not
influenced the policies of the South African regime. If it
hasn't been sanctions, what's it been?
PM: I don't accept that analysis. Obviously from what I've
said before and when you have the statement of de Plessis,
the Finance Minister and de Kock, the late Governor of the
Reserve Bank, saying that there must be changes because of
the economic pressures and when you see on the eve of the
Commonwealth meeting the release of these prisoners, then
it, in my respectful observation, it defies any logic to say
that sanctions haven't had their effect, they obviously have.
JOURNALIST: Mr Hawke, they've endorsed your proposal for an
independent agency to monitor financial links and Australia's
putting up some money. Could you say how much and what form
that agency will take?
PM: No, I can't say how much we will put up. The amount
that Australia I don't think we'll have to put it all up
there will be support from others. But we have taken the
lead in this area of financial sanctions. As you'll1
appreciate it's appropriate that we should give a lead, we
will, and what we will now have is further discussions with
our own people and others in the commonwealth to see what
particular institution that exists within the Commonwealth
and in an appropriate centre where there is access to
relevant lines of financial information, where it will be
best situated. We don't have any because it's our idea
we're not saying where it should be. I would want it to be
in a place where it can be most effective.
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JOURNALIST: Mr Hawke, you've also said that it's a
significant development that Mrs Thatcher is at last
recognising existing sanctions. Why do you think she's made
this? PM: Look I've not at any stage tried to put myself in the
mind of and to speak for Mrs Thatcher, it would be
presumptious of me to do that. To the extent that it's
appropriate for me to make some observations about the effect
of anything she's said or done, I think that that's fair
enough. But I don't want to put myself in Margaret
Thatcher's mind. I think if you've got questions as to what
she's thinking it's appropriate if you can to ask her.
JOURNALIST: Did Mrs Thatcher give any indication to the
Comonwealth leaders today that she'd be issuing her own
statement on South Africa which she's done tonight?
PM: No, there was no indication that that would be done.
But I don't think she had any obligation to
JOURNALIST: Do you think this weakens the force of the
unanimous PM: No, not at all. I mean if you have a position where in
the document that was accepted at Langkawi, if there is an
indication in that that the British Government reserves its
position on certain of the paragraphs as is done, well that's
fair enough that the Leader of the British Government should
indicate their position in that respect. And no-one can
argue with that.
JOURNALIST: the environmental statement, there's a
paragraph in there that says that they don't want to tie aid
and trade to environmental conditions. Where does this leave
Australia's environmental statement?
PM: In no different position from where we are. Let me
just quote you the actual wording of the statement on that,
if I could just see it, I mean I don't want to get in your
way in all. But it says that we've agreed to strengthen and
support the development of international funding mechanisms
and appropriate decision making procedures to respond to
environmental protection needs which will include assisting
developing countries to obtain access to and transfer of
needed environmental technologies and which would take
account of proposals for international environmental
protection funds. So that point deals with the concept of
general assistance. But then specifically on the question of
the relationship between development and environmental
concerns, specifically this is what it has to say and there's
( PM cont) two parts to it which you need to understand
to respond to your question: " sustainable development implies
the incorporation of environmental concerns into economic
planning and policies." I mean there's the recognition of
the relationship between sustainable development and the
incorporation of environmental concerns. But they then say:
" environmental concerns should not be used to introduce a new
form of conditionality in aid and development and financing."
Now we're in a position where in the past we have in our
developmental programs incorporated our concern for
environmental issues. So what we've done in the past is
totally consistent with what's contained in the declaration.
JOURNALIST: Mr Hawke, on the developments on Antarctica over
the weekend, the release from Paris called it a Land of
Science rather than a World Wilderness Park. Is there any
significance in that?
PM: Get your question right. It combined the two. It
referred to Wilderness Land of Science.
JOURNALIST: inaudible
PM: Well, you want to get your information right.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, was there any discussion at the
Retreat about Cambodia and the impending problems there? Do
you think it's an issue the Commonwealth should deal with?
PM: No, not specifically. You'll recall that the world
political situation was the subject of the first day's
discussion here in KL and it didn't specifically come up in
the two major Retreat sessions, which were predominantly
concerned with the environment, with South Africa and with
the role of the Commonwealth in examining the question of
looking to the next decade, as it were what are the
emphases that the Commonwealth will need to take into account
and in turn what may that involve for the actual shaping and
staffing and servicing by the Secretariat. Those were the
major issues that were discussed up there. But of course one
of the great virtues of the Retreat is that it enables a lot
of informal discussion and I can say that Cambodia was one of
the matters that I did discuss with some of the leaders
there. JOURNALIST: Do you expect Hong Kong to be raised in the next
couple of days, Mr Hawke?
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PM: Well again, in the first day's discussion on the world
political scene, Hong Kong was mentioned and again, I've had
some bilateral discussions on that with Mrs Thatcher.
Whether that will come up again now, I doubt it. This is the
sort of thing that you're able to discuss very usefully
JOURNALIST: Are you able to say what you discussed with her?
PM: Just briefly to say that we recognise the pressures that
have been created for Hong Kong by the events of June 4 and
the need for confidence to be given to Hong Kong. And that's
a position that we both share.
JOURNALIST: Did Mr Namaliu make any specific requests of you
with respect to the situation in Bougainville?
-PM: No, I'm having an extensive bilateral with him in the
morning. I'm meeting with him at 7.30 in the morning.
JOURNALIST: Sonny Ramphal said it was the clearest
and strongest statement on South Africa that has ever come
from the Commonwealth. Do you agree with that?
PM: I suppose, summoning all the modesty I can, I think
that's not a bad statement.
JOURNALIST: What happened in the big showdown on the golf?
PM: I thought you were never going to ask.
JOURNALIST: inaudible
PM: No, no wait a minute, wait a minute. A very important
question has been asked here, what happened in the golf.
Australia beat New Zealand.
ends