PRIME MINISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH JOHN MCKENZIE, 4CA CAIRNS,
18 SEPTEMBER 1989
E 0 E PROOF ONLY
MCKENZIE: Thank you for joining me.
PM: My pleasure.
MCKENZIE: Today you are to talk to us in far north
Queensland. You have probably just heard me talking to Bill
Ludwick, the Branch Secretary of the AWU in Brisbane.
PM: I just heard the very end of it, John.
MCKENZIE: People suffering here in far north Queensland, as
you would be well aware, over the years of your tenure as
Prime Minister. I suppose one thing you have really been
renowned for is your compassion for people who are
suffering. Is there anything you can say to those who have
lost their jobs here in far north Queensland at the moment.
PM: You talking as a result of the pilots dispute.
MCKENZIE: Sure.
PM: well the first thing I'd say is that the strength of
the Australian economy, the enormous growth of the tourism
industry in the period Sincei we have been in office is a
direct result John, of the fact that we've had a wages
accord and a wages system under which the workers of
Australia have exercised very very considerable restraint
and that has meant this enormous increase in jobs, a
trebling of the number of jobs in tourism in particular. A
trebling of, well quadrupling of turn-over in the industry,
and a trebling of the number of overseas tourists. Now
that's all happened because we have been able to have
workers in this country very responsibly exercising wage
restraint. And what this dispute is about now is a
situation where the pilots are trying to smash that by
breaking right outside the system undoing what all your
listeners, workers and their dependents have done. Now
there would be much greater problems if we just gave into
the pilots, which we are not prepared to do. Now having
said that, of course, I am desperately concerned about the
fact that the action of the pilots has imposed this hardship
on people in Australia, in general, and to some particular
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extent in your area. I met with the tourist industry here
last week John. And let me say these things about this.
Firstly, they were very responsible. They said, we are not
asking for compensation, but there are two things that they
asked me to do and which I was more than happy to do. And I
would particularise that in regard to your area. Where
there are people who are suffering financially, as a direct
result of this pilots dispute, I would say, and I hope I
could use your program to say it That their bankers
should exercise consideration and restraint in dealing with
those problems. They should help to accommodate them
because this dispute will end, and the fundamentals of our
tourist industry and of your area particularly, remain
unchanged. People are still going to see Australia for what
it is. That's one of best the tourist destinations in the
world and within that situation, John, they are going to see
your area as one of the most attractive parts of Australia.
So the fundamentals remain unchanged and I would ask
bankers, and those who are in a financial relationship with
operators, to accommodate them during this period. The
dispute will end, its not going to take an indefinitely long
time. And they should be assisted during this time. That's
the first thing. Secondly John, even before the tourist
representatives came I had talked about the possibility of
some assistance to the industry after the dispute. They
raised this with me, and I have indicated that I will
provide some federal assistance to undertake a campaign when
the dispute is over just to let the rest of the world know
that we are back to normal. And that the facts are as I
said. That Australia still remains the best tourist
destination in the world. And amongst that it is very hard
to beat the northern part of Queensland.
MCKENZIE: I have got to bring up a point there on your
commitment to ensuring this will never happen again. I have
had people in mum and dad businesses going broke. I have
had people part-time and full-time employed in the
hospitality industry saying, why should we wait for it to be
all over. Why should we go back to the hospitality
industry, because we can't guarantee there is a structure to
ensure this will never happen again. How strong is your
commitment to ensure this sort thing can't happen again?
PM: Well that's what its all about. The very fact, and
with respect it should be so glaringly obvious. If we
allowed the pilots to say to the rest of Australia and to
all your listeners, look, you have played the game, you have
exercised wage restraint, and on the basis of that we have
built up this enormous growth in the economy and in the
tourism industry in particular. But if we allowed the
pilots to say, well, frankly bugger you, we will just go and
exercise our strength and get 30 per cent increases. Then
you have got no guarantee because everyone else will do it.
The whole thing will be wrecked. It is only by making sure
that the pilots are not allowed to wreck the system that
your lksteners, and the people you are talking about, can
have any confidence in the future. They can have no
confidence if the pilots are allowed to wreck the system.
MCKENZIE: Talking about compensation a moment ago, the
Member of Leichhardt, Mr Gayler would have informed you, I
presume, of the sort of anger that stirred up here in the
tourist industry here in north Queensland. And some of the
operators are saying, look if you are going to give
compensation to the airlines for that, the way you are doing
it, couldn't you make it contigent on perhaps airfare
packages that would stimulate some more business coming
a reduction in airfares
PM: You go right to the very heart of what this is about.
Two things to say. The airlines are not getting any
compensation in a different way from the tourism industry in
regard to the losses generally that they are suffering.
They are not getting anything for their general losses. The
one thing that distinguishes the airlines in this dispute
from the tourism industry, is that the tourism industry can
and is standing down its employees. The airlines can't.
And the compensation, the word that is being used, the
financial recompense, is financial assistance, however you
want to describe it, that is limited to what the airlines
are faced with which the tourism industry isn't. So they
can't stand down their employees, because if they did the
whole thing would stop. So they are getting financial
recompense for that. The tourism industry is and can stand
down their people. But for the general loss that the
airlines are suffering they are not getting a cent of
compensation. Now going to your point about fares. The
very fact of making sure that this dispute is won is going
to mean that the airlines are going to get enormous
productivity improvements. Once they have recouped their
losses, got back to normal operation, then they will be
employing something like between four and 500 less pilots.
The pilots will be flying more and out of that significant
productivity increase there will be the capacity in the
airlines to have a better approach to fares than they
otherwise would have. And we have said to the airlines,
that we expect that once they have recouped their losses in
this dispute, then we expect the productivity improvements
to be shared with industry generally and that includes in
particular the tourism industry.
MCKENZIE: On a personal note, it must be rather strange for
you after so many years as chief advocate for the ACTU to be
really working, in some ways, very strongly and very closely
with employers. Does it seem rather strange to you at
times? PM: Well what I have always tried to do is to see what is
the best way in which you can advance the interest of the
country generally. I believe when I was President to the
ACTU, and in fact this is a matter of record, I had lots of
dealings with employers. I had a good relationship with
employers as well as leading the trade union movement. What
I always try to do at the end of a dispute was to say, well
look, what's the thing which is going to recognise the
interest of the parties immediately concerned and the
community generally. And that's how we got disputes
settled. In this case we have a position where the pilots
federation has just made it clear John, from early this
year, that they were going to smash the industry. Have you
actually, are you aware John, of the things that the pilots
planned from the beginning of this year to smash the
industry. MCKENZIE: We have heard rumours.
PM: Well I'll just say that they are not rumours. Just
could I, have you got time if I could quote to you from
their own publication. Now this, I mean they are coming out
and saying that they are terribly upset about what has
happened in the tourism industry. Shedding their crocodile
tears, the federation. Just let me read you some of the
things John, from their publication that is called
' Deadline And its the Australian Federation of
Air Pilots. Now here you are in February they say, this
publication will be issued regularly and cover many of the
questions that you will have in the months that come such as
the actions companies may take in the case of prolonged
industrial action. That is what they talk about, prolonged
industrial action. That's in February 89. They say that
they will pursue every means available to obtain their
claim. Now let's go on to some of things they then say.
Then, this is may I remind you, early February and April.
They say at some stage in one's working life, the potential
to face a non-income period, and they call that NIP,
non-income period. The potential to face a NIP exists. Now
may be an appropriate time for the prudent pilot to review
both long and short term financial arrangements. They then
said, be prepared to adjust your lifestyle in the period
leading up to and during the NIP, for-example, eating at
home is cheaper than eating out. They then say, establish
other employment opportunities. many people have acquired a
taxi driver's licence. Then they say, this period is an
excellent opportunity to complete many of the things that
you may have been wanting to do. You may decide this is an
excellent opportunity to have a complete break from the
house, to go fishing, work on the car, start a lawn mowing
business. MCKENZIE: I say to you they are probably getting a bit fed
up with it by now though.
PM: They might do. But just let me give you the last
quote. This is the pilots starting in February. They say,
a major reason for the stopworks being called was to inform
you of the major battle ahead should the existing system not
become flexible to remedy your real salary situation.
Should it reach that stage then it will be a real battle, as
we will be fighting the Government, the Arbitration system,
the companies and all the vested interests. Now in other
words John, the Federation, starting back in February, were
quite prepared to smash the tourist industry. And not only
prepared to, they were planning to do it. Now what I'm
saying to your people is, my Government has not been
prepared to allow this to happen. Sure, in stopping it
happening there has got to be some, you know there is some
intermediate problems and we will do what we can, when the
dispute is resolved, with help in advertising, to build the
industry up quickly again. I plead with the banks and
others to help people who are in temporary difficulties.
But the real point is that the Federation was determined to
do what no-one else was doing, every other workers were
abiding by the system, they were going to smash it. Smash
the tourism industry. We are not going to allow that to
happen. MCKENZIE: One final point, I have only got 30 seconds
leading up to news. one of the local operators would like
you, in your capacity as Prime minister, to exert any sort
of influence you can on the companies, on Strong and Abeles,
to get our quota of flights as soon as possible back into
this city.
PM: Yes. Well I will certainly say to them that consistent
with what they have got to do with the rest of Australia,
that they will do as much as they can to help up there. But
they have got to, obviously, try and do it in a rational way
in regard to the whole of Australia. But let me make this
point. I don't think I have to say very much, because, ask
who are the biggest investors in the tourism industry in
this country, amongst the biggest investors. It's the
airlines. MCKENZIE: Thank you for your time this morning.
PM: Thank you John, very much.
ends