T89/ 150A
S
PRIME MINISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF JOINT NEWS CONFERENCE WITH NT CHIEF MINISTER,
MARSHALL PERRON, PARLIAMENT HOUSE, 7 SEPTEMBER 1989
E 0 E -PROOF ONLY
PM: Ladies and Gentlemen, could I just go to the
arrangements, the first part of this Press Conference of
course will be about the Historic Agreement that Marshall
Perron and I have reached in respect of our both Governments
on this fundamental important issue and we will make each of
us a brief statement about that and when we have done that
we would sign the Agreement, the Memorandum between us and
after we have done that we would each be available for any
questions that you would want to address to us and then once
this issue is completed in terms of questions, Mr Perron
would withdraw and I would be available for questions from
you on any other subject. Those terms then could I just
briefly say that both Mr Perron and I regard today as an
historic day not just for our Governments, but much more
importantly than that for the Aboriginal people of the
Northern Territory. Before I make a brief comment about
what it is that we have agreed on, may I pay an unqualified
tribute to the Chief Minister of the Northern Territory. We
have been engaged in an exercise, which by its nature, you
would appreciate is full of complexities in regard to which
there are accumulated aspirations, prejudices if you like,
which make negotiations between the tw o Governments
inevitably difficult. And in these negotiations I have
found, from the Chief minister, a spirit of give and take,
compromise, a willingness to listen constructively to points
of view, and I hope that from our side we have been able to
reciprocate because if there hadn't been that spirit between
us then this historic agreement would not have been able to
have been reached. And I would also in paying tribute to
the Chief Minister take this opportunity of paying a very
significant tribute to my Minister, Gerry Hand, for whom
this also represents the culmination of great commitment and
a very great deal of hard work. The Agreement that we are
about to sign, has come as result of long hours of
discussions and negotiations over the last two days, and
essentially, as you will appreciate from having read the
material, it is a memorandum of agreement concerning the
provision of Aboriginal living areas in the Northern
Territory. In regard to the stock routes and reserves, that
title will be provided under Commonwealth legislation, in
respect of excisions in pastoral areas that will be provided
by legislation of the Northern Territory. We of course
realise-that the provision of title is not the end of the
story but it is a necessary and has always been a necessary
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precondition of addressing the tragic conditions of so many
of our Aboriginal fellow citizens in the Northern Territory.
And just as we are committed now to accelerating the
processes which will provide title so we have a joint
commitment to ensure that we do as much then as we can.
Title having been provided to rectify the conditions under
which so many of our Aboriginal fellow citizens live. It is
our intention to move ahead quickly in the legislative
process, with October being the schedule for both Marshall
Perron and ourselves here in Canberra, but beyond that
commitment to acceleration in the legislative area we are
both committed to moving in co-operatively in the
administrative area to give effect to the agreement that we
have reached.
PERRON: I would just like to say that I feel honoured, I
guess, that I have managed to complete a task that was
commenced by, and handled by, three of my predecessors who
were unfortunately over those years, unable to reach the
stage of agreement that we have today. It is a matter of
enourmous complexity. We are talking about the subject of
settling the aspirations of some Aboriginal people for land
which is currently owned by Australians under normal title.
And that together with the history of aboriginal affairs
generally in the Northern Territory, having regard that it
is different from the rest of Australia, the advent of the
Land Rights Act in 1976 has provided us special problems and
challenges over the last decade plus, and no doubt has
contributed to a degree to the difficulty in parties
reaching resolution on this matter previously. It is
unfortunate that it has taken both our Governments as long
as this, however, the important thing is that the Agreement
is about to be signed. It is an agre~ ment that I believe
both Governments believe is fair and just, although like all
agreements obviously neither of us con~ sider it the ideal, or
what we would have liked to have achieved right from the
start. The important thing is that those who we both most
want to help, the Aboriginals, are going to benefit from
this process, and they will benefit from it quickly. And I
am very pleased to have been able to complete what I see as
a four year negotiation period. I'd like to pay tribute to
the officers both of the Commonwealth and of my own
Government who have spent something like about 20 hours
straight in concluding this matter and we can now get on
with the job of actually meeting the aspirations of many
Aborigines in the Northern Territory.
( Agreement Signed)
PM: We are open to questions on this subject.
JOURNALIST: Mr Perron, stock routes separated from
the pastoral holdings that surrounded them?
PERRON: Yes.
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JOURNALIST: Prime Minister and Mr Perron, how sure are you
respectively that the Land Councils in the Northern
Territory and the Cattlemens' Association will accept this
package. PM: Well let me pick up a point that the Chief Minister
made. It is accurate as he put it to say that this
Memorandum of Agreement that we have just signed, not only
not be regarded as an ideal solution from the point of view
of the respective governments, but it is the case, and it
would certainly not represent the ideal solution from the
point of view of the Land Councils or certainly the
Cattlemens' Association. But as well as agreeing as we have
to this document, the second agreement we have is that we
will use our respective influences with the Land Councils
and with the Cattlemens' Association to explain what is
being done and the overall benefits that are involved, and I
think that commitment that we have each made and of course
with Gerry Hand on our side being so importantly involved in
his relationships with the Land Councils, we believe that we
will be able to make everyone with a direct interest
understand that this is the best possible solution. Just a
minute Mr Perron may want to say something.
PERRON: No, No, I think you have summed it up very well
Prime Minister.
JOURNLALIST: Can you describe the conditions that the
Aborigines are living under at the moment and how this
agreement will help them?
PM: Yes, its been recognised by everyone concerned that in
respect of many of these conditions,-which are appalling,
there is no argument, there has never'been any argument
between the Chief Minister and myself-about that fact, and
they are circumstances which have brought no credit to
Australia. They have been projected, not only within this
country, but internationally, but it has been recognised by
us all that you have to settle the question of title. The
title has to be given before the combination of
responsibility between the Territory Government and
ourselves, we can then make the provision to rectify those
appalling conditions. And we have a commitment to do that.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, will there be a need for the
Commonwealth to legislate to concrete in the Northern
Territory side of this deal?
PM: No the only, where our legislation involves in regard
to the proclamation, section 50, we had addressed this
question of whether there may be some idea of entrenchment
from the Commonwealth point of view in our legislation, what
is the requirement on the part of the Northern Territory to
give effect to the excisions decision. But we have through
the exchange of the letters which will be associated with
this and the dual signing of this Memorandum, we now have a
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situation where, from our point of view, we believe that the
commitment of the Northern Territory is fully entrenched, if
you like it that way, and we have never had any doubt about
the integrity of Marshall Perron, or his Government about
adhering to an agreement that we would reach. There was
some concern, on the part of some representing the
Aboriginal people, that okay that's okay but * what about the
future. Now what we have done in this way by entrenching
the arrangement between us in a memorandum of Agreement, the
exchange of letters to be associated with that, we believe
that that concern is appropriately addressed.
JOURNALIST: Mr Perron, two questions. What is the, or is
there any difference between the security of title granted
under the NT legislation in this package and the
Commonwealth? And the second one is, do you think that the
relationship that you and Mr Hawke may have developed over
the past months in negotiating this issue might see an end
to the race politics, if you like, that has been a feature
of the Northern Territory for so many years?
PERRON: In answer to your first question there will be two
forms of title. They will be quite distinct. Those areas
that are scheduled by the Commonwealth, as a schedule to the
Land Rights Act will be inalienably freehold. They will be
restricted to some areas on stock reserves only. The titles
issued by the Territory Government will be a modified form
of Territory freehold with special protections in that title
to provide comfort to Aboriginals in this situation. And we
will be legislating specifically for that in the October
sittings. Answer to your second question, I guess time will
tell whether the rapport which the Prime minister and I have
built up over this matter lessens the-publicness, I guess,
of aboriginal issues between the Territory and the
Commonwealth in the future. Aboriginal issues in the
Territory have always been sensitive. I think they have
often been totally misrepresented in the national press. I
think the Territory's performance in aboriginal affairs is
one that we can be very proud of, yet is poorly understood
by southern journalists. I would advocate to you all that
the Territory's performance in regard to the recognition of
tribal customs in territory law. Our recognition of
Aboriginal participation in national parks across the
Northern Territory. Our health programs. We have
initiatives in education, which are unique in this country,
designed specifically to assist Aborigines record their
culture, and be taught their culture. And electoral reform
is another example. We're the first in the country, I think
possibly still the only, to introduce mobile polling booths
and compulsory voting. Voluntary enrolment, compulsory
voting for Aborigines. Photographs on ballot papers and so
on. Small matters you may think, but collectively we have
the best record in this country, by far, of the social
advancement of Aboriginals. And much of the national
~ impression of us as a bunch of red necks is lack of, is
ignorance on behalf of other Australians.
JOURNALIST: Mr Perron, how many Aboriginal people do you
expect to benefit from excisions and do you expect that most
claims will be settled by consensus or do you think they
will mostly be dealt with by the Tribunal and the Northern
Territory Supreme Court?
PERRON: I would expect by far the vast majority to be
settled by agreement prior to getting near a tribunal
process. As for the actual numbers, that is very difficult
to predict but it will be certainly, certainly a couple of
thousand. It may be many more. But it is difficult to
predict exactly how many people will eventually meet the
eligibility criteria through the entire process.
JOURNALIST: Can I just clarify the mining issue. Does this
mean that Aborigines will be able to reject mining on the
land that they have titles to?
PERRON: Let me explain it this way. We have undertaken to
provide a mining reserve around portions of land which is
granted as a result of an excision application in order that
the actual residential component of that land is not
disturbed, in exactly the same way as we provide a mining
reserve around all towns in the Northern Territory in order
that you don't find a drilling rig in your backyard one day.
And with the negotiation with each individual excision
applicant we can vary the size of those boundaries to
prohibit mining exploration on their land. Bear in mind
that by and large these parcels of land will be fairly small
and also bear in mind that many Aborigines in the Northern
Territory today are quite happy, indeed anxious, to have
mining activity on their land.
JOURNALIST: How many years will it bKe before we start to
see the fruits of this before the conditions of Aborigines
are actually improved?
PERRON: Well the conditions for Aborigines are improving
all the time. The amount of money that flows into
Aboriginal essential services and housing via the
Commonwealth and with funds from the Territory Government as
well is enormous. I think we calculate we have spent some
$ 4 billion in the last ten years as a Territory Government
alone. That's excluding direct specific purpose funding by
the Commonwealth itself. And its an ongoing process. It
was only, I think, the last six months that we agreed with
the Commonwealth for an additional $ 30 million program to
upgrade Aboriginal housing in towns throughout the
Territory. And these are the sorts of initiatives that are
taken basically every year or two.
JOURNALIST: These 2,000 Aborigines living in appalling
poverty at the moment, now how long will it be before they
get a better deal?
PERRON:. Well, I can't give you an answer to that.
Excisions I would expect land titles will begin to flow
within a matter of months, bearing in mind that the entire
process doesn't start until October when all the legislation
is in place. Titles will flow in a matter of months. Now
the speed at which roads on to that land, water can be
found, houses built is going to be dependent on the supply
of money and it's going to be very expensive.
JOURNALIST: Prime minister, there are still appalling
conditions in western Australia because of similar problems
with title there. Would you hope that this agreement will
provide some sort of precedent for the western Australian
Government? PM: Well, I think it's fair to say of the minister who, as
you will recall I gave the appropriate tribute to a moment
ago, has not been exclusively concerned during his Ministry
with the Northern Territory and there will be on-going
consultations with the other areas of Australia where work
needs to be done. I think we can say this, that we would
hope that what has been done here in regard to the Northern
Territory will stand as an example of what can be done by
appropriate cooperation. So, in that sense, while it won't
directly mean anything outside of the Northern Territory, I
hope it will act as an inspiration, not only to those that
are directly involved, but I hope really that this will be
important for the people of Australia as a whole, that it
will represent a recognition by two Gg9vernments of different
political persuasions of the necessity to act
constructively in the committed way to address these issues.
So, in that sense, I do hope and expect it will have a
significance beyond just the Northern Territory.
JOURNALIST: Prime minister, have you got any idea of how
much land has now been opened up, in this way, throughout
the country in the same way
PM: It's a matter of detail which Mr Hand would be perhaps
better able to answer, or in respect of the Northern
Territory, Mr Perron. I don't pretend to have those details
but Gerry
PERRON: I think the question related to land elsewhere,
outside the Territory-
PM: But you also include the Territory in your thinking, do
you? JOURNALIST: I asked about
PM: Yet. Not just the Territory.
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JOURNALIST: Queensland New South Wales.
HAND: this only effects
PM: I know it does, but he's extended beyond there so, I
mean, the answer to your question I don't think either the
Minister or the Chief Minister could give you a precise
answer in regard to the Northern Territory, in particular,
or Australia as a whole.
JOURNAL-IST: But you're basically now inviting Aboriginals
to make-
PM: I beg your pardon?
JOURNALIST: You are now inviting Aboriginal groups to make
these claims in all States?
PM: a question of, as a result of what we're doing,
inviting Aboriginals to make these claims in all States.
Let me say in regard to the Northern Territory, it's not a
question of invitation, the claims have been there. They
don't need an invitation as a result of Marshall Perron
coming down here and talking to Bob Hawke. The claims have
been there and they're a fact of political life for some
period of time. So the concept we're now inviting them to
make claims, with respect, as is often the case with you,
portrays an ignorance of the facts. The facts are there and
solid. The claims exist. What we've been dealing with is a
method of having a process of dealing with claims that
exist. So, it's not a question of invitation there or
anywhere else.
JOURNALIST: Could you elaborate on why it's taken so long
to resolve these negotiations and, in-particular, why the
proposal for voluntary agreements on living areas didn't
succeed and your concerns about eligibility criteria for
applications for living areas?
PERRON: Well, you've asked a question which would really
probably require, in fact, the 20 odd hours of negotiations
it's taken to resolve in the final form, to answer. Your
first question was why has it taken so long. The matters
are enormously complex. They're also enormously politically
sensitive and they have a very long history to them as well
of things that were said and done and undertaken years ago
by various parties. As a result of those things that have
. been said and done and not done, other parties have locked
themselves into various positions. we've made no secret of
the fact that we have long believed that, had the
Commonwealth commenced the admendments to Section 50 of the
Land Rights Act in mid, I think, ' 87 when they were passed,
then we wouldn't, this matter wouldn't have taken so long.
However, I'm sure the Commonwealth have another view of that
. and other parties felt that had Section 50 been commenced
then something else would have come off the rails. So, I
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don't claim responsibility for all that period because
unfortunately I wasn't in charge of negotiations, or perhaps
fortunately, I don't know. But for whatever reasons, it's
been very long and slow in coming. I regret that, the
Commonwealth certainly does and so do the Aboriginals. So
the important thing is we're here today, having reached an
agreement, and we're going to proceed as fast as we can.
Now your question of eligibility. Obviously eligibility was
one of the crucial matters to be determined finally between
the respective parties. It was important, I believe, to
indicate that we weren't talking about a process of land
claims under traditional attachment, a la the Aboriginal
Land Rights Act because that's not what we're talking about
and you won't find that embodied in the document that we've
both signed. But we are however, providing for a system of
claims to land by persons of particular eligibility and
there are particular requirements about what can be claimed
and there's criteria on that end of the scale as well. So
these matters are all very important and had to be picked
over piece by piece. They have been and we've resolved them
all. JOURNALIST: you said before that there's one aspect
less than ideal. Which specifically are those matters?
PERRON: Well, I'm obviously not going to run through what
the Commonwealth decided to let slide and what the Territory
Government decided to let slide, but clearly if you've had a
disagreement for at least four years and, in fact, the
disagreements go back, if I recall, possibly even pre the
Labor Government, Federal Government, then obviously to
reach an agreement in the end, someone's got to give. What
I'm saying is that it wasn't one side-who gave in this
exercise, it was both sides. Had both sides not given,
well, we'd be sitting back perhaps for another four years
throwing stones at each other.
JOURNALIST: Mr Hawke, Mr Perron the need for
additional funding to flow through to the Northern Territory
once excisions are settled, will the Commonwealth be
injecting more funds in the Northern Territory for basic
services like housing
PM: Let me say this. As far as we're concerned and Mr
Perron, of course, he should and would speak for himself,
but as far as we're concerned this is as I've put. The
precondition for addressing the conditions that we've
referred to under which these people live. As far as we're
concerned now having resolved that precondition of title,
then it will be the attitude of my Government that we should
give very special attention to taking advantage of the fact
that we've cleared that hurdle and address as effectively as
we can the provision of facilities. Now in all these
things, this is a matter of coordination between our two
Governments. I gather from the discussions that we've had
that Mr-Perron would share that view, but he obviously can
speak for himself.
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PERRON: Well like most, just to say briefly not to hold
people up on this issue, but most of Governments' problems,
I guess, in meeting the aspirations of constituents can be
boiled back to money problems. There never seems to be
enough of it, of course, for any of us for any of the
purposes we're here for. There are very substantial sums
that flow into the provision of services and housing to
Aborigines in the Territory and no doubt across the country.
However, if we are going to fairly quickly escalate the
amount of land which requires housing and services, well
then it is going to require some more funds. I'm not using
this public forum to put the on the Prime minister. It
will be dealt with through the budgetary process of course
and the Commonwealth will make its decisions at the time.
But I guess I need to point out that most of the Territory
Government's funds flow from the Commonwealth, as you're
probably aware, and it's not simply a matter of us saying
' well we'll find another $ 5 or $ 10 or $ 20 million per annum
or $ 50 million per annum from Territory sources'. We don't
have the powers of the States, we don't have the tax raising
abilities of the States because of our limited powers and so
we rightly turn to the Commonwealth
PM: I'm sure that I'll be hearing from Mr Hand on this
issue. JOURNALIST: The agreement, as it relates to stock routes,
the Commonwealth's been worried about Aborigines who had
claims on stock routes and wouldn't be eligible for
excisions once the stock routes weren't claimable any more.
Are all of those groups covered by this?
PM: In regard to the stock routes which has been agreed
between us will be a matter handled tinder the Commonwealth
legislation. we have agreed that there will be full
consultation between the Commonwealth and the Northern
Territory to deal with the There's a mass of
applications there as you know. I mean, I was just amazed
when I saw the map and extent of them, the spread of them.
Now, on dealing with all those which are now established,
then there's going to be a consideration under the terms of
our discussion of what are appropriate. There are some that
will, may have lapsed because of the range of circumstances,
but we will consult with the Northern Territory and then
once those decisions are made in regard to those claims,
then the essence of the agreement is the proclamation of
so that that means that that is the end of the issue.
JOURNALIST: Chief minister, how long has it been since
these stock routes were in fact used as stock routes? The
nineteenth century, 50 years?
PERRON: I think some of them have been used more recently
in short segments, but it's true that the great cattle
drives -of the last century, which was the reason they were
originally put in for, there haven't been many of those
since the one we ran for the Bicentennial of course.
But the facts are that they are not part of a pastoral
lease, they're an area excised from the pastoral lease at
the time the pastoral lease is granted. They are Crown land
and the history of the matter of stock routes arose because
the challenge to the High Court that they were not
claimable, should not be claimable under the Land Rights
Act, ruled that they were claimable and that that presented
special difficulties for everybody because in some cases
they divide pastoral properties in three, in many cases in
two. However, they were claimable under the Land Rights Act
and the Land Councils claimed them, as was their right.
What we have here now is a negotiated settlement for a
portion of stock routes not to have to go through the land
claim process to be directly scheduled to the Land Rights
Act. Following a period of consultation with the Territory,
an examination of the applicants and their meeting a certain
criteria and that will be balanced. Land that is scheduled
on stock routes will be balanced with excisions on
neighbouring pastoral leases. So, it's not a matter of
everybody sort of doubling up, as it were. In some cases
Aboriginal claimants may well prefer a piece of land off a
stock route for various reasons and they may drop a claim on
a stock route, obviously they don't get both. That's our
agreement between us, is designed to look at stock routes
and excisions on pastoral leases virtually concurrently.
PM: That's right.
JOURNALIST: From any decade these stock routes have been,
have functioned as parts of the, as a part of the pastoral
leases that surround them?
PERRON: Yes.
JOURNALIST: Mr Hawke, if I could just raise another issue?
PM: Is it about this subject?
JOURNALIST: No, it's about
PM: No, you can't. Didn't you hear what I said at the
beggining? when this is concluded, then it will be open.
JOURNALIST: Mr Perron said earlier that the significance of
this deal is that it's taking title away from generally
white pastoralists and granting it to Aboriginal people.
The question to you, Prime minister, is given that you've
pulled something as tricky as that off, is there any chance
of you dusting off the treaty proposal?
PM: Well, I don't accept the language that you use about
dusting off the treaty proposal. The position there is that
the minister is in the process, and has been for some time,
of conducting discussions and trying to get a mechanism for
ascertaining the views of the Aboriginal people. He's also
looking-at the issue of how we may also try and get ideas
from the non-Aboriginal community.
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Now, I have reports from the Minister on occasion he
says ' well, there is where we are and where we're going' and
I expect that that process is going to continue. It has
not, at any point, been put in a pigeon-hole or a back-box
at all. We have the two questions there are a whole
number of other issues which have had to involve, including
this The predominant attention of the Minister, and of
course, the whole process of moving to set up the ATSIC
structure, now that hasn't meant that the other's been
forgotten but there is a limit to the amount of time that
you've-been able to give to this. But it is still very much
on the table and it's my hope that the processes will evolve
in a way which will enable the minister to come to me and
say ' well here is the concept from the Aboriginal people as
to what they would wish to see' and contemporanously, I
hope, we'll be able to have the idea discussed in the
non-Aboriginal community and then the issue can be dealt
with. By definition, as I've said always, this is not
something which will lend itself to an imposed arbitrary
sort of process. The essence is that we get an
understanding on both sides of what it should be about.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, at Burunga you indicated that
you'd like to get the treaty in place by the end of the life
of the current Parliament. Is that still your aim?
PM: Well, that was my aspiration. I would have to say the
processes, it would appear, are going to take longer than
that. I would liked to have got it by the end of this
Parliament. Realistically now I'd say that that is not
possible, but there has been no lessening in my commitment
or that of my Minister on this issue. Now, I don't want to
be difficult about cutting off questions on this issue, but
I imagine that there are other issuei you want to talk about
and I do have to get in the Parliament, so
0 JOURNALIST: One more question
PM: No, you've had three and they were pretty poor at any
rate. Yes?
JOURNALIST: in relation to Yambah station
PERRON: Yes.
JOURNALIST: The people that are sitting outside the Supreme
Court in Darwin today. Would you they'd rather be
sitting on their own land. How does this help them and what
would you say to them today?
PERRON: I believe what we've done in the last 24 hours will
help them. Yambah is a particuarly complex case, even
within complex cases. That's acknowledged by all parties,
Land Councils, Aboriginal Affairs, Departments, Commonwealth
Offices and Territory Offices. It's going to require some
special attention by a number of senior people, possibly
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including myself and the Federal Minister for Aboriginal
Affairs, to try and carefully resolve. I can't go into much
more detail than that, but I think that the agreements that
we've reached to date providing for a special form of
Territory title, providing for scheduling of land to stock
routes because there are stock routes running through
Yambah. In fact, some of the Aborigines are camped on
stock routes as well as those who are camped on the station
itself and so I think that the, a resolution to that problem
is in sight, but it may take a little while yet and a lot of
talking and, hopefully, goodwill.
ends
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