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E. O. E. Proof Only 26 A PP198
TPANSCRIPT Press Conference 15 April 1983
JOURNALIST: Mr. Hawke, the Premiers' Conference that Mr.
Bourke and Mr. Jolly from Victoria suggested might be a good
idea is that going to go ahead?
PM: It will be considered by the Cabinet.
JOURNALIST: Is there going to be another Summit?
PM: How many years to the end of the century 17 aren't there?
JOURNALIST: PM, What did you tell the Unions on superannuation?
What is your ( inaudible).
PM: I had a conversation with them as to what I thought would
happen on this matter. I am glad you have asked the question,
Geoff. Let's get the background to it and what will be
involved. This rather prolonged speculation followed from an
answer which I gave to a question on this matter a couple of
weeks ago and I said all existing expenditure programmes and
taxation expenditures were subject to review. I was asked did
that include the question of the limit of 5% tax on lu. mp sum
superannuation and I said honestly and openly look all things
naturally are under review. That carried no implication of an
intention to impose a tax beyond the 5% tax which is currently
imposed. It carried no implication at all. It was simply an
honest answer saying, look, everything is being looked at. Now
for reasons which I don't quite understand people have given it
a currency which that honest response did not warrant. Because
there has been the speculation, because there have been sonre
concernsabout accelerated resignations I think I can go this far
to say I will have the matter before the Cabinet
so that this can be decided. Because there has been speculation
a number of my Ministers have spoken with me and I can say on the
basis of the conversations I have had, without pre-empting the
decision that will have to be made in the Cabinet procedures that
I think you will find that there has been no basis for the
speculation which I think has been unfortunately. extended beyond
what my initial observation warranted.
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JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, Are Australians looking at paying
more taxes after this Summuit?
PM: I hope they are going to pay some more taxes, if not we'll
all go broke. The sit: uation is quite clear. I Chink with a
very great sense of responsibility the participants at the
conference said if there is to be additions to aggregate
expenditures and the language was very careful, then there may
have to be either an increase in taxes and or reduction in the
expectations about tax indexation. Now that statement from., I
think a very responsible group of people, reflected that they
want the Government to do a number of things. Now what are those,
things that they want the Government to do on behalf of the
people of Australia. They are these. They want stimulatory
action to get the economy moving. They want action which is going
to generate Jobs and, to the very great credit of the conference,
they gave a centrality to the responsibility of this community
to the impoverished and those in need. Now, if you are going to
undertake all these things, and in a way which may involve an
increase in aggregate expenditure, they accepted and realized
and told the Government that if all those things are done which
involve an increase in aggregate expenditure that may be
involved. Now I am simply saying that the Government has been
given an indication to the feeling of representatives of the
community. These will be taken into account. It is quite
impossible for me to say at this stage what specific decisions
the Government will take in an attempt to give effect to the
clearly articulated view of such a representative gathering.
JOURNALIST: At the Conference several Premiers indicated the
desire to have access to overseas funds to fund their own
State deficit which they saw they needed. At the same time
1--business have expressed concern at the level of Government debt
and the possible overseas borrowing. Flow is it that the
Federal Government plans to resolve that conflict?
PM: Oh, it's not a question of resolving a conflict. Let's
look a-t the two issues that are involved and see what happens.
The expression,-if I can take the second part first, the
expression of the concern about the growth of overseas
indebtedness is a legitimate one. You can't just open endedly
say you are going to go on borrowing overseas forever because
you have to service that debt and in time repay it and it is
legitimate that Governments should be warned of the fact that
you just can't do this in an unlimited way. Going to the
first point it is natural enough that States are going to say,
looking at their responsibilities that they would like to be
in a position that they perceive it as being a fact that they
could have access to more funds at lower rates than overseas
markets. I understand that. We will be looking at it, but
we will have, as a Government, to take into account the other
factors which are relevant which are, firstly, if States have
an unlimited access through their authorities to the overseas
market, what effect is that going to have on the borrowing
capacities and qualities that will be attached to the claims of
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the Comonwealth and of" other States if they all have that
sort of capacity? Wha t i mpact will that have upon the rates
which we can borrow? W. hat st1-atus would particular
authorities of particular States in fact have on those markets?
Now, we will take into account all those considerations and it
is proper that the States should have raised that concern.
It is a perfectly legitimate one and as requested, we will look
at it.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, How heavily are you prepared to
loan on Unions in the building industry to ensure that your
job creation programmes go ahead with the thought maybe of
deregistration going ahead?
PM: I'm glad you asked that question. I believe that the
ACTU is a totally responsible body and a body with authority
an authority and status which has been considerably enhanced
by the events of the last few days. I believe that the ACTU
has a clear view, and indeed they have publically said so as
well as privately to me, that they have a clear view of the
responsibility of constituent members and that is that a Union
cannot at one and the same -time say that it is part of the
Trade Union Movement, part of the Australian Council of Trade
Unions and t4-hen at the same time say we are not bound by the
democratically arrived at decisions of the ACTU. I firmly
believe that the ACTU will address itself to this problem and
if you take the more pessimistic view that a Union within the
ACTU is going to flout the authority of the ACTU if that were
to happen and I trust that it won't. I trust that all the
Unions will see that they are bound by the decisions of the
ACTU, but if you take the more pessimistic scenario that that
is not to happen, the ACTU moves to take the decisions that are
necessary to ensure that effect is given to its decisions, then
it will have the full support of my Government.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, Can you describe your thinking
of the Queensland Premier ' s attitude in one word?
PM: I think complexities never lend themselves to single word
answers. No, not in one word. I simply say that Ithink it was
rather sad in a number of ways more for the Premier than
anyone else, but he is entitled to express his view and at an
appropriate time he will have the opportunity of asking the
people of Queensland to say in the light of circumstances of the
Summit and subsequently as to whether they share that view and
that will be an appropriate course of action.
JOURNALIST: Would you seek retribution against him, Prime
Minister? PM: No, you know me well enough that I don't operate like that.
JOURNALIST: Do you mean you won't be campaigning in the
Queensland election?
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PM: That's not retribution, that's democracy in action.
JOURNALIST: What is your judgement now on the wage pause?
PM2: Again, I'm glad you asked that question. At no stage
was it ever put by me that this Summit could be a determiner
of how long a pause would last or what the circumstances
coming up to that pause should be. The people who have tried
to say that in some sense the Summit may have been a
disappointment because i~ t didn't make those decisions betray,
if I may say so, an abysmal ignorance of the Constitution and
institutions of wage fixing in this country. There has been
nothing which could or should stop the rights of Unions or
employers to go to the Arbitration Commission at the end of
the first half of this year. That has always been the case.
There was nothing the Sumimit could have done to stop that.
What has been reflected in the Summit is a recognition of what
the facts are and let me make it quite clear so that it will
not be beyond the comprehension of anyone in this room what
those facts are. Wages can move in this country for one of
two reasons. Firstly, they can move because the Arbitration
Tribunal makes a decision in respect of wages. Alternatively,
they can move because, as a result of a negotiation or action
between Unions and employers, there is a decision between
them that wages shou~ ld move. Now, what the Summiit has done is
to say that in respect of that second area that that will not
be pursued by the Unions, nor be encouraged by the employers.
They have agreed that there shall be a return to the first
method of centralised wage fixation. Beyond t-hat they have
said that there are clear guidelines which should govern
conducts of the parties in terms of applications to that
Commission and that is that there should not be applications
for increases in wages based upon the circumstances of
particular industries but that they should be restricted and
restrained to movements in terms of national prices and at a
later period in respect of perhaps the national productivity.
Now those are very significant achievements and are the limits,
represent the limits, of achievement that was possible within
that Conference and it should clearly be understood that those
were the possible limits and that the Summit has gone a very
long way in transforming into a sensible and realistic
framework what will happen to wage movements in the country.
Now, in explaining all thatC as necessary background to your
question, I am not avoiding your desire to have some view
about likely timetables. Now it seems to me, that it is likely
that the ACTU and employers will make a relatively early
approach to the President of the Commission to begin to have
discussions in ' the light of the decision of the Summit as to
some conference within the Commission to discuss picking up the
tangled and broken threads of the processes of wage fixation in
this country. Now, I would assume, but I can't speak for him,
and. I have not spoken to him, but I would assume that the
President of the Commission would respond at a time of his
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choosing to such a request by the employers and the AC.
I would assume, therefore, that some time down the track a
conference would be held and again I would assume rhat out
of that conference agreement would be reached as to a t: ie
for a National Wage Case hearing which, clearly, T believe,
would take place in the second half of calendar 19S3, or to
be precise then in financial year terms, after the end of
financial 1982/ 83 and the financial quarter of R3/ S4. Now,
how long that hearing would take when the Commission would
fix the date for such a hearing, how long it would take, and
certainly what the decision would be, I can't say. It seems
to me, however, if my assumptions about the course of action
are accurate, then we would not be seeing, if there were to
be an increase in wages, and I don't know what the decision of
the Commission would be, but we would not be seein7 an increase
if there were to be one, much before the end of third ziarter
calendar 83. Now, I repeat, that is a series of assuL-. tions on
my part on the basis of the very very clear advance and
responsible advances that have been made in respect of waqe
fixation by the Summit.
JOURNALIST: Will you be taking any direct action yourself to
bring the Building Unions into line?
PM: I wish you wouldn't use the word direct action in those
circumstances. No, I believe that the Goverrnent is playing
its role so far through the Minister of Employment and
Industrial Relations, Mr. Willis, who has been involvec/: in
discussions with the Unions and in significant discussions with
the ACTU and he would share my view, I believe, that the ACTU
will, through its own processes ensure the adheranze o: the
Building Unions to the Accord and I am sure that Ralph Willis
would have conveyed that, as I have, to the Unions. The first
step has got to be the Unions, the ACTU themselves, handling
this matter. I have total confidence that the ACTU will handle
this matter in a way which establishes their credibility because
their credibility is on the line. They know that and they
attach such importance to their integrity that I aim sure they
will handle it.
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JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, on AM this morning you gave what
would probably be your clearest indication yet about your
Government's intentions towards tax cuts. I think you used
the expression that tax cuts were a lesson. Could you clarify
that please?
PM: I thought that was pretty expressive, Ken, that they are
less likely. I can't make it much clearer than that. What I
said was this and i remember now the context. I started off
that interview by saying that we had shared knowl-edge in a way
that had never been done before and will continue to do it. I
said that the policy proposals of the Labor Party in the period
leading up to the ele':: tion had been drawn up on the basis of
our understanding as to what the budgetary position was. i said
that now that we had the full knowledge of the true budgetary
situation and now tha. t the community had that knowledge, all of
us, not just the Government, but the community, regarded it as
appropriate, in the light of the knowledge we now have, that the
decisions relevant to the fact should be made and obviously t1-he
right decision now in respect of the knowledge we have is one
which would make it very significant1-ly less likely that there
would be an opportunity of any general tax cuts. That would not
preclude the possibility that, in giving effect to the range of
indicated desirable targets for Government action., that there
could be not some assistance to those most in need, but the
possibility of general tax cuts is obviously, to put it at its
lowest, very very much less now in the light of all known facts.
JOURNALIST: Mr. Hawke, Somebody also called for an urgent
review of migration policies. Why is it so urgent and when
will it be?
PM: Well, I would have thought that the urgency relates to the
fact that the levels of migration still being followed by the
previous Government could not be realistically justified in the
light of the growing unemployment in this country and those
reviews are already underway. The relevant Departments are
looking at them.. I would believe that before long, I would,
and the Government, would receive submissions from the relevant
Department, and when I say relevant Departments I am clearly
talking about Employment and Industrial Relations as well as
the Department of immigration itself. I would believe that
in a relatively short time submissions in regard to that matter
will be before our consideration.
JOURNALIST: Mr. Hawke, can you give further details about
your forthcoming overseas visit. I understand that you are now
going to Geneva and a number of other countries.
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PM: Yes, I will be going to a number of countries. There
are certain details that are in the process of finalisation
and it does involve a question of courtesy to some of the
countries involved. Very early next week I will be able to
make the full details available and if you want a press
conference in regard to that we can have it.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, is Senator Evans going to let you
have an Air Force boeing?
PM: Well, if I can take that as a serious question. If you
want some observations in regard to other matters I am prepared
to make them, but I'd better have a more serious peg on which
to hang an observation.
Inaudible.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, are you prepared to agree to
numerous requests for question time and debates in the House
next week?
PM: I don't think it is appropriate on the 21st. I have
referred Mr. Newman's telegram to SMOS, Mr. Young. You
must treat this with seriousness. It is a very serious issue.
It is clear that the time constraints upon the Parliament are
extremely important. I would have hoped that Mr. Newman, as
well as the rest of the Opposition, would regard as a priority
the requirement of the Parliament to get through the
legislation which will enable our Government to provide the
funds to Victoria and South Australia in regard to bush fire
relief. I would hope that their sense of prioritiJes are not
in the rather desperate political situation in which they find
themselves that they would seek to elevate this relatively
insignificant, but in a sense, not justifiable, incident. I
wouldn't expect that their sense of priorities would be so
perverted that they would want to put that above the assurance
that the people pf South Australia and Victoria, the victims
of the bushfires would be prejudiced. There won't be any
doubt that when we get to May that they can have the fullest
opportunity they want to to discuss this matter and indeed, I
will be encouraging, actively encouraging, the provision of
the widest opportunity in the Parliament for discussing this
issue because, as a matter of purely personal and not political
interest, of course, I would like to just see it clearly spelled
out what the positions are. I put it in the plural, of the
Opposition, in regard as to what has happened in Tasmania.
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JOURNALIST: Mr. Hawke, given that the need to lift public
national confidence is urgent, when will you be in a position
to announce your job-making programmes and at that time, Sir,
will you also announce how you propose to fund those
programmes given the budgetary constraints placed upon you by
the Summit communique, if not common sense?
PM: The answer to your question is that I would expect that
to be able to be done next month.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, do you intend releasing next
year and in future years at about this time the economic
projections of the economic ( inaudible). In other words,
continuing the process.
PM: Yes. When I say yes, the question of timing, let me
kep myself not committed to a specific time, so because we
did it on this day this year it will be
JOURNALIST: It will be about this time.
PM:-Yes. Look, I am not going to be inaccurate in these
matters. As soon as the information is available it will be
released.
JOURNALIST: Can I ask you a question Prime Minister about
the visit of the Chinese Premier on Sunday. It is the first
visit by a Chinese Premier to Australia. I imagine one of
the major issues to be discussed will he the situation in
Indochina at the moment, particularly on the Thai-Kampuchean
border. What line will you be taking with the Premier,
given the known Chinese objections to Labor's policy to
resume aid to Vietnam?
PM: Well I won't be taking a line with Premier Zhao. I Will
be wanting to listen to what he's got to say. And as I've made
it clear before in respect of this matter we will be
discussing with all relevant countries this issue before
we take any action. Bill Hayden is going to the ASEAN
countries very shortly as you know. And it is clearly
appropriate that discussions be held with them. It is
clearly appropriate that he has those discussions. we'l. be
talking with the Premier of China. We will have discussions
with the United States. I'll certainly be talking with
the President of the United States about this when I meet
with him on the 13Th of June. And we will be waiting before
we make any final decisions on this matter until we've had
the opportunity of having all those discussions.
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Now just let me particularly say in respect of the discussions
with the Chinese Premier that I would understand that he would
be putting to us the reasons which they regard as compelling
why there shouldn't be any change of the Australian position.
We would be opening up all the range of considerations that
obviously are regarded as relevant in this matter including,
as I've said in my earlier statements, the concern that
every country in this region must have about the way in which
that country is forced mnore and more into the Soviet orbit
by the fact that its not receiving assistance from elsewhere.
And that ought to be discussed and will be. So those are
the sorts of discussions that would be held. I'd rather
put it that way than saying putting a line.
PAUL KELLY: Mr Hawke, were you at all concerned or at all
unhappy about the comments Mr Hayden made on his overseas trip
following the latest trouble between Vietnamese and Thais?
And if you were did you arrange or were you responsible for
O any message sent to Mr Hayden about that?
PM: There is a communication that went to our party in
Indonesia and the statements ( plural) that were made by
Mr Hayden in my judgement reflected a very sensible progression
of expression of views. There has been at all points of
Bill Hayden's conduct of the Foreign Ministry of this country
very, very great satisfaction on my part. That has been
consistent, it remains. And let me say in respect of his
visit, I think it was a brilliant and outstandingly successful
performance. I'm happy with all that he did and I believe he
is going to be an outstandingly successful Foreign Minister.
PAUL KELLY: Just on that point though Mr Hawke, were you
unhappy about his original comments and were you responsible
for the modification in those comments?
PM: To say I was unhappy is inaccurate. I believe that as
more evidence became available a stronger statement was
O necessary and desirable a view which is clearly shared
by Mr Hayden. These things aren't static. With each hour
virtually more evidence was becoming available as to what
in fact had happened. And it seems to me whether you're
dealing in economic affairs or international affairs that
you should make judgements according to the information
that you've got. That's what's happened there that's what will
continue to happen.
PAUL KELLY: Have you posed(?) an expression to Mr Hayden
about this matter either during the trip or since he came
back? PM: No I did not speak to Mr Hayden during the trip. Of
course, since he came back we've had discussions aboutthe
whole of his trip. We are at one in respect of what he
did before he went, what he did when he was there and what
he's done since his return.
JOURNALIST: Mr. Hawke, when the National Wage Case is
convened will the Government be supporting a pay rise?
PM: The position of the Government in respect of the
submissions to the Arbitration Commission will be determined
by the Cabinet when its necessary. I will not be predicting
the position of the Government in terms of the details ofE
our submission.
JOUR14ALIST: Could I ask you a question about the financing
of Houses of Parliament. Is it possible that the
main statement on job creation could also include reference
to revenue measures and some of the results of the expending
review which are now complete?
PM: The answer is yes, it is possible.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, a little while ago you said
that you viewed the RAAF flights over South West Tasmania as
relatively insignificant, but unjustifiable. Why do you
consider they were unjustifiable'and what steps are you taking
to monitor the situation?
PM: As soon as I became aware of it on Monday morning, I
contacted the Minister for Defence and said it had to stop and
it is my understanding that within quarter of an hour of my
issuing that instruction to him he had himself issued the
necessary instructions.
JOURNALIST: Mr. Hawke, there has been some concern........
At this stage the tape ran out.
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