VIRGINIA TRIOLI, HOST: Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, good morning and thank you for joining me.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, Virginia. Good to speak with you, although it will of course be a very sad day for Simon's family, for his many friends and for the entire labour movement. We farewell a giant today at the Cathedral.
TRIOLI: I did want to ask you about him. But first of all, I also wanted to ask you whether you'd had any direct information or communication from your New Zealand counterpart about that horrific shooting in the early hours of this morning there in Auckland. Is there any news that you can share with us?
PRIME MINISTER: I have had contact with Chris Hipkins. I sent my condolences and that Australia is with New Zealand on a very difficult day. He responded by texting me back that it was indeed a very tough day. This should be a day of celebration, the FIFA World Cup begins in Auckland and in Sydney simultaneously, today. This tragedy where where two people have been killed and others injured by this gunman is just horrific news.
TRIOLI: Will there be any need - just seeing this incident, at least at face value to be connected specifically to the construction site that the shooter went to - will there be any need or any requests made from you, Prime Minister, to up security in Sydney tonight?
PRIME MINISTER: The usual security protocols are in place. And that will occur as it occurs for any major event. This would appear though to not be associated with the football at all, but a very specific target. Those details, of course, re still being investigated.
TRIOLI: I wanted to ask you about Simon Crean, who, like you, knew well and over many, many years. He genuinely was a remarkable man, a staunch Labor and union man, a powerful advocate for workers. But he was such a polymath in many respects, a staunch advocate for manufacturing, for trade, for primary industries and of course, notably, for the arts, as well as being a deeply moral man. Are the days of renaissance Labor men like him gone?
PRIME MINISTER: No, not at all. The labour movement continues to renew itself. We're in government nationally, and in all of the mainland states. Today's an opportunity to celebrate though the life of one of our greatest, someone who served as a Cabinet Minister in no less than four governments. His is a unique position. And he served in such a wide range of portfolios. As you've said, in employment and training, primary industries, resources, trade, regional development. One of the things that I'm going to speak about today in my eulogy is his passion for the arts. He understood that this was a central part of of Labor's mission. It wasn't something that was a decoration or an afterthought. He understood that a culturally confident nation has the strength to know itself and who it is and, it has the imagination to enlarge itself. And that's what he did with his policy of Creative Nation. That, indeed, was the starting point for our development of our revived policy that he attended the launch of earlier this year at the Espy Hotel there in St Kilda. Simon was such a larger than life character as well. He's someone who filled the room and was always so positive. I spent time with him this year in Melbourne. I caught up with him overseas as well. He was someone who was continuing to work in the national interest as the head of the Australia European Business Council.
TRIOLI: A couple other questions I wanted to ask you while I had you here. We're just hearing that the former top public servant Kathryn Campbell, has been suspended without pay from her almost to $1 million a year job with the Defence Department less than a fortnight after the Robodebt Royal Commission made damning findings against her. Are those reports true? And who made that decision?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, this was a decision made by the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet and appropriate bodies. It's not appropriate given the potential legal matters that are involved to go through all of the detail there. But certainly there's been an appropriate response from my Department and from the public service to the Royal Commission findings.
TRIOLI: She was Secretary of the Department of Human Services from 2011 to September 2017. How long is this suspension for? And will it eventually turn into a full dismissal?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I'm not going to go into those details because individuals do have have rights as well. We'll go through appropriate processes. One of the things the Royal Commission was about was making sure we get proper processes, that we don't have the sort of governance arrangements, whether it be some of the actions of the public service, but more particularly as well, the actions of government ministers, from the time that robodebt was introduced and kept going for four and a half years in spite of the fact that it was an illegal scheme. It was one where notice had been given all the issues which were there. We will respond in an orderly, appropriate way, learning the lessons from the Robodebt Royal Commission, the findings of which were, I think, even more damning than anyone was expecting.
TRIOLI: I just wanted to ask you about the situation here in Victoria, about Daniel Andrews cancelling the Commonwealth Games, which were going to be held regionally here in Victoria in 2026. When was anyone in the Federal Government alerted to this?
PRIME MINISTER: We were advised just prior to the announcement. It's a decision of the Victorian Government. I certainly think that for the athletes, it's a very difficult decision for them, who would have been looking forward to participating in the Commonwealth Games at a home games, as they did in Melbourne in 2006. And as they did, more recently, on the Gold Coast. But this was a decision made by the Victorian Government.
TRIOLI: It struck many as a surprise, when the Federal Budget came out, that there was no money, no figures in the budget in any way, to support the Commonwealth Games here in Victoria. The suggestion being made this morning by the Leader of the Opposition here in Victoria, John Pesutto, that perhaps the Federal Government knew that that was not going to proceed here in Victoria, that maybe you've got some suggestion that the Victorian government was going back on its commitment. Is that true?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, John Pesutto need to sort out his own party before he starts trying to sort out other governments in other jurisdictions, frankly.
TRIOLI: Prime Minister he may not he may need to, but nonetheless, the assertion is an interesting one that I'd like to test
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's nonsense.
TRIOLI: No one was told?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's nonsense. It's nonsense, like a lot of what Mr. Pesutto says. Complete nonsense. This was the decision by the Victorian Government. And it is just a fact that when it comes to announcements and engagements of different levels of government, not everything occurs in in a budget context. And if you have a look at what occurred with previous Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast, that was overwhelmingly funded by the Queensland Government.
TRIOLI: Why was there absolutely no money committed by the Federal Government to these important Commonwealth Games, though?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, if the Commonwealth Games hadn't been held yet, Virginia.
TRIOLI: The preparations were moving ahead of 2026.
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, and there's a couple of budgets between now and 2026, Virginia.
TRIOLI: You mentioned just before that it was a sad time and a sad announcement for the athletes. That's more sympathy for the athletes than we've heard expressed by the Premier, who's been asked repeatedly to at least apologise to the athletes in all their preparation for not going ahead with these games. Do you think he should do that?
PRIME MINISTER: It's a matter for the Premier. He's made a decision based upon the changed financial arrangements and costs. The difference that were there between the projected costs and the actual costs. He's had to make a difficult decision and he has made it.
TRIOLI: Did the State Government at any point come to the Federal Government and ask for financial support?
PRIME MINISTER: Look, Virginia, we have discussions between state and federal governments all of the time. But this is a decision of the Victorian Government that they've made based upon the changing costings. I think Premier Andrews has been completely upfront about the basis upon which the decision has been made. He can't have been clearer. It's a difficult decision. But it has been made by the Victorian Government. He was very upfront about the reasons why.
TRIOLI: But when you say that there are discussions all the time between the levels of government, are you suggesting there that it was some point, there was a discussion raised by the Victorian Government with the Feds to get some support?
PRIME MINISTER: There are discussions all the time, Virginia.
TRIOLI: That sounds like yes.
PRIME MINISTER: No, it sounds like an honest answer. Every Sports Minister, every portfolio, the state governments are always asking for more funding. We have had a range of announcements with Victoria with regard to infrastructure, and a very recent one that I made with Premier Andrews, which was about more funding for social housing that added almost half a billion dollars of funding for Victoria that I made just weeks ago. But there obviously hadn't been any funding finalised for the Commonwealth Games. But the Commonwealth Games weren't to be taking place until 2026.
TRIOLI: So can I interpret from that, and you can set me straight on this Prime Minister, can I interpret from that, that if the if the state government had just proceeded a little longer, there may have been money coming in future federal budgets that might have made these games possible?
PRIME MINISTER: These are hypotheticals on hypotheticals.
TRIOLI: That's not fair, Prime Minister, you're the one who said there was many budgets to come.
PRIME MINISTER: Yes, it is fair. Premier Andrews has made a decision based upon the circumstances which Victoria was facing. That's a decision by the Victorian Government. It wasn't a joint decision. It was a decision by the Victorian Government.
TRIOLI: But you're suggesting with many budgets to come between now and 2026.
PRIME MINISTER: That's just a fact.
TRIOLI: There could have been money in there.
PRIME MINISTER: Well that's just a fact. That's just a fact, that there are a range of budgets. I'm not saying there was. I'm not saying it wasn't. I'm saying that there are a future budgets. Don't try to read something into that which isn't there. This is a decision that the Victorian Government have made. They've made it very clearly. They made it on their own. It was not a joint decision. We were informed about the decision. And Premier Andrews has been very clear about why he made that decision.
TRIOLI: Yesterday when you were saying similar words, Prime Minister, there were many commentators saying that to their minds it sounded like you comprehensively kicking the Premier of Victoria under the bus and leaving him to it. Am I overinterpreting there?
PRIME MINISTER: You are, absolutely. But it's just the fact that it was a decision for the Victorian Government.
TRIOLI: I wanted to ask you something else before I let you go. Polling shows that the Yes vote for the voice has been consistently falling. It's been on that trajectory, really, ever since we started talking about this. On what basis are you still so confident for the referendum's success later this year?
PRIME MINISTER: That this is such a clear and simple proposition. And that Australians are generous. Australians do want to advance reconciliation and they do want to see the gap between Indigenous and non Indigenous Australians closed. For some time there's been debate in the media about a whole range of issues that this is not about, that won't be determined by this referendum. What this referendum is about is simply recognition and then better outcomes by listening to Indigenous Australians. That is what this is about. And that is why I'm very hopeful that Australians do vote Yes when given the opportunity in the last quarter of this year.
TRIOLI: Prime Minister, I know you have to be seated for the state funeral so I will let you go. I look forward to seeing you in the studio sometime soon. And thanks for being here with us.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, Virginia.