Prime Minister
LIAM BARTLETT: Prime Minister, how are you?
PRIME MINISTER: It's great to be here in the West. It's tremendous to be back.
BARTLETT: Finally.
PRIME MINISTER: Yes, that's true. There's a few things too we had to be dealing with over on the east coast after I got out of COVID isolation. But I'm so pleased to be back here over the next few days, and there's a lot to do while we're here.
BARTLETT: Yes, well, floods notwithstanding, obviously, in your part of the world. But the borders …
PRIME MINISTER: True.
BARTLETT: … the borders are down and we're welcoming anybody. You’re proof, indeed.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I hope there's many more to follow and a lot of international visitors. We've also announced today cruise shipping - 17th of April - that's the start date again when they can start coming back, and that'll be appropriate to each of the states. But so that'll be happening again and and people can be travelling, and this is tremendous. We're getting through COVID. And I know in the West you've done a terrific job protecting Western Australians from COVID, but going through a challenging time now. But I have no doubt WA will push through, just like the other states and territories have.
BARTLETT: Prime Minister, look, I've got to say, you can tell an election’s coming up. I mean, we're being showered in gifts this morning with your announcement, bestowed with riches. It's all happening. Are we going mad with money, aren't we?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we've been very consistent in our support for Western Australia. I mean, over the last three Budgets, after we were elected at the last election, we've delivered in just in GST alone, an additional $4.9 billion to Western Australia. That was the deal that I put in place, that I championed when I was Treasurer, sealed as Prime Minister. And that alone has delivered an extra $4.9 billion directly to the state Budget here in Western Australia. That was a problem that no one previously was prepared to deal with. But I did, both as Treasurer and Prime Minister, and Western Australia are the beneficiaries of that. It’s almost $5 billion in just three years, and that continues on into the future. WA will continue to get their fair share of the GST and they'll get that forever based on the arrangements I put in place.
BARTLETT: And that's and that's great, and that's good news for us. But, you know, at a grassroots level, let's talk about just the average wage earner at the moment.
PRIME MINISTER: Sure.
BARTLETT: You know that many are feeling the pinch right across the country - I’m not just talking about WA - but the cost of living pressures right now, especially at the bowser. Will you consider consider cutting the fuel excise, Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the Budget’s in a couple of weeks’ time. But what I can tell you is we're very conscious of what these cost of living impacts are and particularly at the bowser. And as Australians know, that's being caused by what's occurring with the invasion of Ukraine by Russia, and and those at the bowser increases are even worse in many other places, including in New Zealand. But this is why next week, the pension’s going up $20 bucks for a single and $30 bucks for a, for a partner, a couple. And on top of that, you know, if you're earning $90,000 bucks today, you are paying $50 a week less tax than you were under Labor's tax rules when they were last in government. So we’ve delivered tax cuts to people. We’re, we've increased and increasing the pension next week by the highest level it's increased since 2013.
BARTLETT: Yeah. It’s not very much.
PRIME MINISTER: Electricity prices have fallen by eight per cent. Well it’s $20 bucks a fortnight …
BARTLETT: Prime Minister, please, it's 2.1 per cent, which is not even the inflation rate at the moment. So, you know, it's only just keeping up. Not quite.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, but my point is that costs, that costs taxpayers, that increase to the pension, over $2 billion a year, $2 billion a year.
BARTLETT: Ok, I understand, I understand it costs, you know, we can't pull it out of trees. But …
PRIME MINISTER: That's right.
BARTLETT: Do you intend to look at any reform to the pension? And, by that, I was having a chat to Gina Rinehart last week, and she's very keen on this. We've had a lot of, a lot of feedback from our listeners. You know, the ability of pensioners to earn income without being penalised. Is there any reform in that area on your radar?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we made some changes to the pension oh about five years ago when it came to how the various income tests worked, and, look, we will always look to see how we can ensure that people can do better than they are now. But all of this has to be done at the same time as ensuring that you're doing the right thing to ensure that you can keep affording all the many essential services that Australians rely on. We've got record funding into hospitals, into schools, and, as you know, the the funding we've had to put in to support people through COVID has been without precedent. I mean, in Western Australia alone, the COVID support has been $14 billion in direct economic support, and there's $455 million we put into Western Australia just on their health, hospital and health system. And, so, you know, the demands on the Budget over the last couple of years have been significant. And, as a result, you know, that's why we're doing everything we can to support people with lower taxes and increasing the pension. We've got electricity prices down by eight per cent in the last two years. And, so, you know, our inflation rate’s running at, running at 2.1 per cent a year. In the United States, it's running at almost eight per cent. In the UK, it's running at almost six per cent. And so the strong economic management we've had is cushioning the blow. There's still a blow, of course …
BARTLETT: There is a blow.
PRIME MINISTER: …when you’ve had increases in cost of living.
BARTLETT: There is a blow.
PRIME MINISTER: I don't deny that. But what I am saying is Australia has managed these effects and these impacts far better than anywhere else. And that means that when it comes to interest rates and the pressures on interest rates, under our economic management management, that pressure is less than it otherwise would be and we're seeing in other parts of the world.
BARTLETT: You mentioned New Zealand, Prime Minister, and where we're talking about fuel excise, New Zealand's reduced its excise for three months. Why wouldn't we do the same right now?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, a - their fuel prices are far higher than they are in Australia for a start. And, you know, excessively more. And but, as I said, the Budget’s …
BARTLETT: But you, you can do that.
PRIME MINISTER: Liam, the Budget’s at the end of this month, and we're looking at a whole range of issues.
BARTLETT: But you don't have to wait for the Budget, Prime Minister. You could do that tomorrow.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, you can't actually, you have to do it in Parliament. You can't just change the excise. Parliament has to sit and Parliament has to pass laws to give effect to that. So, no, you can't just change the excise like that. The Budget’s …
BARTLETT: You could call Parliament back if you wanted to.
PRIME MINISTER: The Budget, the Parliament is sitting in in a couple of weeks’ time and the Budget will be handed down then, and that's when we'll be addressing a whole range of issues, as we always do every year.
BARTLETT: Can you confirm, Prime Minister, that the excise on draught beer is set to be removed?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I don't know why this has been reported. I've done three Budgets as the Treasurer and I've done three Budgets as a Prime Minister, and before every single one of these people put a whole bunch of things up the flagpole and people say this is happening and that’s happening. And, well, on Budget night, that will become very clear. So it's my habit not to respond to that sort of speculation. The Budget’s at the end of the month and all of that will be made very clear one way or the other. But just because someone writes in the newspaper or say they believe it's true, doesn't mean it is.
BARTLETT: No, that's that’s that is true. So are you saying those reports are wrong?
PRIME MINISTER: I'm just saying there’s speculation before every Budget, and I'm not going to go down the path of ruling everything and everything out with every flag that people want to put up before the Budget. I haven't been going around saying that's what we're going to be doing. I haven't been hinting at anything like that. Other people are talking about that. That's for them to justify their speculation.
BARTLETT: Yes. Well, I'm asking you the question because you know it's been talked about a lot, and it does seem …
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, but not by me.
BARTLETT: No. But in these times, it seems a bit ridiculous, doesn't it, that you could potentially you could do it for beer, you could take the excise off for beer, but not for petrol, for example.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that's a very good point. So I don't know and I don't understand the speculation.
BARTLETT: It's at times like this that you need flexibility in the Budget, don't you, Prime Minister, to help people with the cost of living. I mean, if your Treasurer had handled JobKeeper better and made those companies that took billions when they didn't need it, pay it back, you'd have a lot more to play with now, wouldn't you?
PRIME MINISTER: Look, I'm sorry about that I don't accept that premise at all, Liam. JobKeeper saved the Australian economy. It kept people in work and actually kept people alive.
BARTLETT: Well, you don't, you don't think there’s figures to back up the fact that a lot of companies didn't need it?
PRIME MINISTER: No, but understand what JobKeeper was - when JobKeeper was put in place, it was put in place with the certainty for all the businesses that were eligible that it would be in place for that duration of time. You don't get to go and change the rules halfway through, because people make decisions about investment, about keeping people in jobs, keeping their businesses going forward. Now this is one of the classic things the Labor Party does…
BARTLETT: Well, it's not the Labor Party, Prime Minister. It’s not the Labor Party.
PRIME MINISTER: The Labor Party were the ones who raised it, Liam, and the Labor Party said, oh, we support JobKeeper. And then after we'd done it, they said they wanted to extend it when we finished, and then they said we spent too much money on it. So you can't have it both ways. JobKeeper saved the Australian economy. It saved 700,000 jobs and it saved lives. So if the Labor Party want to have a crack at JobKeeper, well, they can. But they say they support it and they say they oppose it. They have an each way bet on everything. JobKeeper helped this country achieve one of the highest rates of growth in the advanced world. It helped us ensure that businesses could remain intact and bounce back. And then we had the Commonwealth Disaster Payments that we followed up with when those states who were going through further lockdowns were able to push through those times as well. So, you know, I know the Labor Party wants to bag JobKeeper. We think JobKeeper saved the country, and I think we're right.
BARTLETT: Look, I'm not talking about Labor Party at all. I'm having the opportunity to ask you a few questions, so I'm not basing it on anything the ALP has said. I'm basing it on pure financials and the financial records. Well, the ones we can see that are ASX listed because, of course, there was no public register. So we can't see the ones that effectively hid the payments. But we know there are a lot of people that didn't need it and there were billions wasted, Prime Minister, and those billions, those billions would be very helpful now.
PRIME MINISTER: No, I don't, I don't accept that Liam. I don’t. Liam I don’t accept that, because what you're saying is the rules should have changed halfway through the crisis. Now, if people get a tax cut, we don't change that halfway through the year, do we?
BARTLETT: Well, you could have tightened, you could have tightened the rules along the way, Prime Minister. Your Treasurer could have, but he chose not to.
PRIME MINISTER: No, we gave a clear commitment to give people certainty, to keep people in jobs, to keep investing in their businesses, to keep their apprentices in place to ensure that the Australian economy could get through. Now you don't go and pull the rug from the economy in the middle of a pandemic. That's what Labor Party wanted to do. We didn't think that was the right idea, so I don't agree with your suggestion.
BARTLETT: But what do you say for all those companies that made profits, that posted profits over and above the money they got in JobKeeper? How can you say that's not wasted?
PRIME MINISTER: What I'm saying is they were able to invest that in their companies. They were able to keep their companies going. They were able to keep all their employees in place …
BARTLETT: Oh lovely, the taxpayer, taxpayer-funded welfare. Lovely. That’s lovely.
PRIME MINISTER: Liam, I, look, I don't agree with you. You think JobKeeper didn't save the economy. I think it did. And I think there are businesses all across this country who know that to be true. And when you make a commitment to say you're going to give support during a period of unprecedented crisis, well you stick to your word. You don't change your, you don't change it half the way through. We stuck to our word and we gave the commitment and we got the Australian economy through.
BARTLETT: Alright. Prime Minister, the latest Newspoll, what do you think of those figures? It has you marked as the least trusted Prime Minister in more than a decade. How do you fix that?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh the polls, you know, they'll say what they'll say, but Australians are the ones who get to make the choice. And, you know, at this election there is a choice, and there's a choice between myself and my Government, that have managed the economy in a way that’s kept people in jobs at record levels. I mean, we've got unemployment down to 4.3 [sic 4.2] per cent and it's heading to less than, with a three in front of it. We've got youth unemployment down to nine per cent. We've got women's unemployment down to one of the lowest levels we’ve ever seen. We've got people in jobs. Businesses are investing, and our economy is one of the strongest performing advanced economies in the world. We know how to run a strong economy. And when you've got a strong economy, you've got a stronger future.
Now, the Labor Party, people know they don't know how to manage money, and they know that they haven't been able to manage a strong economy. And so it's a choice. And how people vote at this election will determine the economy they live in for the next 10 years, just like it did three years ago. Three years ago, we said we're going to keep the economy strong, and we did so, despite pandemic, despite cyclones, floods, bushfires, even mice plagues, and our economy is even stronger today than it was than before the pandemic. Our AAA credit rating is intact, one of only nine countries in the world to have done that, and particularly through the pandemic. So we've demonstrated our ability to manage a strong economy, and that means Australians can have confidence under our economic management that they can have a stronger future, because that's what pays for the pension. That's what pays for the defence needs that the country has. It’s what pays for the National Disability Insurance Scheme. If you can't run a strong economy, then you can't guarantee the essentials Australians rely on.
BARTLETT: What about, particularly in Western Australia, Prime Minister, because I know you've said in the past, and you're quite right, that it's not a vote against you and Mark McGowan. It's a vote against you and Anthony Albanese.
PRIME MINISTER: True.
BARTLETT: But it appears in this latest Newspoll voters consider you less caring and more arrogant than Albanese. I mean, how does that work? Do you think the ALP leader's makeover is doing the trick?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I had a bit of a giggle at my own expense last night about that. But at the same time, you know, I'm not pretending to be anyone else. You know, I'm not pretending to be Bob Hawke or John Howard or Kevin Rudd or Mark McGowan or anyone else. You know, I'm still wearing the same glasses I was a couple of years’ ago, and still wearing the same suits, because that's not what makes a Prime Minister. What makes a Prime Minister is being able to manage the economy and keep Australians safe. These are the things Australians rely on in a Prime Minister. And no makeover is going to make up or change the policy positions that Anthony Albanese has had for 20 to 30 years.
I mean, even on border protection, on border protection he said he could never implement a turn back policy on border protection because he couldn't ask people to do something that he wouldn't do himself. Now, that's what he said when that was happening. As Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, I implemented that policy and put an end to the border chaos that happened under the Labor Party when they were last in power. So when it comes to it, I've done the Budgets, I’ve run the fiscal policies. I've worked in the National Security Committee for about eight years. I’ve spent the time in the Budget Committees working through some of the most difficult challenges we've had. And at the end of the day, it's your ability to do those things that keeps Australians safe and keeps our economy strong.
BARTLETT: I remember those days very well. I remember when you were Minister for Immigration …
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah.
BARTLETT: … in fact, doing an interview with you on the, on the, on the footpath outside Villawood Detention Centre. That's how long ago that was.
PRIME MINISTER: I remember that, too. Yeah, that was, I think, when the, when the riots were happening.
BARTLETT: Exactly, exactly.
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah.
BARTLETT: But do you think this is going to get very personal, this election campaign? Because, it's real, I mean, I know there's always that presidential sort of style about it, and it's become more and more over the years. But this is really shaping up as a very personal sort of fight, isn’t it, between you and Albo.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, look, the Labor Party have been sledging me for the last three and a half years. They have a crack at me because they don’t like how I spend my time in my spare time. They have a crack at me for spending time with my family. They have a crack at me for when I turn up at a football game. They’ve been doing this for three and a half years and I'm quite used to them having these personal sledges against me. I’m big enough and ugly enough to take that on the chin and move on. I don't have a, you know, I'm not precious about those sort of things. But the election shouldn't be about that. The election should be about what I've been talking about. And that is, how do we keep our economy strong and how do we keep Australians safe.
I mean, we are living in a very, very unique time, and that is characterised by the pressures that are there in our global economy. We've got war again in Europe. We've got pressures in the Indo-Pacific here with China, in the Indo-Pacific region, and this is a time when experience counts. This is a time when people have demonstrated the ability to keep the economy strong, fund our Defence Forces. I mean, when Labor were in power, defence spending in Australia was 1.57 per cent, 1.57 per cent of the size of our economy. Today, under us, it's 2.1 per cent. If we'd left it where Labor had it when they were last in power, there would have been $55 billion less spent on defence over the last eight years, and $10 billion less in this year alone. So that's why I don’t buy this idea that Labor and the Greens are the same as the Liberals and Nationals when it comes to defence. Their record tells another story. They can say whatever they like, but that doesn't mean that's what they'll do.
I joked last night, I could say I can surf as well as Kelly Slater. I can say it, but I can't do it. And it's the same when it comes to Labor on the economy and national security.
BARTLETT: Prime Minister, I know you've got to take off, but just a final question on national security …
PRIME MINISTER: Sure.
BARTLETT: And I know it's not relating directly to our defence, but the situation in Ukraine. Is there anything else we can do of substance, in a material sense, or is there anything else we're contemplating that we can do?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, there is, and I can't go into the details of that for security reasons, but I've spoken to President Zelensky. I've been speaking to other European leaders constantly over the course of this crisis, and we're continuing to extend our sanctions to more and more individuals, which is done in concert with all the other countries. That is having a big impact on Russia's economy, and that's very important. But also, when it comes to defence support, we've already, as you know, put $25 million, sorry $50 million - I was thinking of the humanitarian component - $50 million US into supporting them with armaments in their defence. Now we're working closely with our other partners as to whether there is more we can do there. And certainly if we can and that will be useful, then we're very prepared to do that.
We've been processing visas of Ukrainians, of, particularly of family members here in Australia, and there would be over 2,000 now. Last check it was around 1,700 that we’d already processed. And those Ukrainians will be coming to Australia and getting residency here, for many of them, or some of them are coming on temporary skilled visas, which means they can have safe haven here during the course of this conflict. But most of them will want to return home. That's what the European leaders are telling me, and hopeful that they will be able to do that.
BARTLETT: Yes, ok. Prime Minister, thanks very much. Have a, have a good trip to Western Australia. I hope it's successful for you. And look, thanks for fronting up and taking the questions - the good and the bad. You always do that. I respect it. Good on you.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks a lot, Liam. Good to talk to you. Great to be here in the West.
BARTLETT: You too.