Prime Minister
Prime Minister: Good morning, Neil and good morning, Melbourne.
Neil Mitchell: Big discussion in Melbourne, will you allow unvaccinated tennis players into the country for the Australian Open?
Prime Minister: Well, they'll have to quarantine for two weeks and just in the same way, a skilled worker who has to come in to fix a boilermaker or a boiler or something like that, they can get exemptions to come in and do that. That's an important economic activity and the same applies here, but they have to quarantine for those two weeks if you're unvaccinated. They're the rules. I mean, I'm going to Glasgow. If I wasn't vaccinated when I came back, I'd have to, I'd have to quarantine for two weeks.
Mitchell: But you and I can't go into the Australian Open if we're not double vaccinated, and yet the players can.
Prime Minister: They're rules that are set down in Victoria. And but if they, if they are unvaccinated, they have to quarantine for two weeks. That's the rule.
Mitchell: But the Premier said he doesn't want any. I mean, but you in fact control the borders. Are you saying they will be allowed in unvaccinated?
Prime Minister: If they apply for that exemption, just as just like a skilled worker coming in to have to do a particular job that's been operating for the last few years through the pandemic. Those exemptions can be granted, but then when they come in, they're governed by the rules of what the state public health orders are. And I think that's a very sensible rule if you're unvaccinated, because that's where the risk is. I mean, the virus finds the unvaccinated, then it's important that they quarantine for that two week period.
Mitchell: So if the Premier wants to stop them, he can't really, that's your authority isn't it.
Prime Minister: Well, of course. I mean, the exemptions we've been providing exemptions for workers to come in to do these types of things for all the way through the pandemic. Now it's true that they have to apply one so that the, you know, the blanket rule is no, but there is a pathway for people to do that for those type of economic activities.
Mitchell: Just so on the pandemic, we've got some pretty draconian legislation here, which is when you could go to jail for not wearing a mask. It's all in the hands of the Premier. You could even call a pandemic when there wasn't a pandemic and the local, the state opposition, says it's a massive overreaction. It's undemocratic. What's your view as Prime Minister?
Prime Minister: Well, I can understand people after what Victoria been through over the last two years are very sensitive about that. I mean, their state issues, they're not federal issues. And we've always tried to avoid sort of mandatory powers in everything on this because we've just trusted Australians to do the right thing. And that's been our approach, whether that's been vaccines or anything else except for, you know, in areas like aged care workers where you knew where we had a particular view, but that was the exception, not the rule. I mean, the Commonwealth has, you know, pretty strong laws around its biosecurity, but we've exercised them with a very light touch. And I think it's a matter of you, your trust and relationship with your population, with your people. I mean, we had the Labor Party saying they wanted to pay people to get vaccinated. Well, I don't think we need to do that. I thought it was pretty insulting to people, and today we have the highest rate of first dose vaccination that we've seen and it's higher than there in the United Kingdom, which is why we're able right now to let people from the 1st of November, we've lifted the restriction on people who are double vaccinated, being able to travel overseas. So that was done last night. So 1st of November, after over half a million people have downloaded that international vaccine certificate, so they'll be jetting off.
Mitchell: But it just doesn't seem right. The prospect in Australia of jailing somebody for not wearing a mask. The Premier saying I can declare a pandemic, whether there is one or not.
Prime Minister: They're not sort of rules that we put in place. But, you know, Victoria will make their own judgements about the decisions being made in Victoria and those things that the Victorian Government are responsible for.
Mitchell: There's also a difference between Victoria and New South Wales. In Victoria, the Premier says all next year you will need a vaccine passport to get it to be admitted to a lot of facilities. In New South Wales, once they hit 90 per cent, they drop that. Do you think that's an overreaction by the Victorian Government?
Prime Minister: Well, let's just see what happens. What I'm seeing happen is that as people get more comfortable with the new arrangements, we're seeing a lot of these things fall away. And I think what's happening in New South Wales is showing that this can be achieved. It can be done safely. I understand people are concerned and nervous as we go into this next phase, and they're looking for some assurances. I get all that. But what I think the lived experience will be and it will be quite different. People will see that we can live with this virus, that the higher rates of vaccination. I mean, we're going to have one of the highest rates of vaccination in the world, not just one of the lowest rates of fatalities from COVID and not just one of the strongest economies in economic performance through COVID. But we are going to have one of the highest vaccination rates in the world, and that's a great ticket for us. And I think as people become accustomed to that and their concerns and fears are relayed, I think we're going to be able to move forward next year pretty confidently.
Mitchell: Do you think we're through it? We're just about through it?
Prime Minister: Oh, no, I wouldn't say that. I mean, the pandemic is not going anywhere globally. There are large parts of the world which are still unvaccinated, and that's going to produce, you know, continue to present real risks. I mean, I've been spending quite a bit of time lately on the, on the big challenges up there in Papua New Guinea. I was talking to the prime minister on the weekend. And so, you know, there are still real challenges really close to home. And, you know, we did a great job over there in Fiji. I mean, we've got them vaccinated, they’re thrilled. Australians are going to be able to fly to Fiji next week, so they're happy about that. I can tell you about Frank Bainimarama, I'll see him next week. They're thrilled. They're so grateful to Australia. Australians have done a great job helping our Pacific neighbours during the pandemic. We should feel very proud of that.
Mitchell: Do you have any report on the Delta, the UK Delta variant has apparently appeared in the US? Have you got a new report on that issue?
Prime Minister: Oh, no, I don't. But we've got a we've got a series of meetings today and I expect that we will be updated on that then.
Mitchell: Have you heard anything about that variant in the UK, whether it's a problem or not, because they do pop up every now and again now?
Prime Minister: Well, look, this happens all the time. And so the issue is, you know, which one's are material, which ones are not. And there's a lot of information that flows through on that. And of course, I rely heavily on the advice we get from the Chief Medical Officer and Professor Murphy.
Mitchell: Want to chat climate change in a moment, but the Queen quickly, have you got any report or an official report on how she is? I do read one. She's not going to the Scotland summit now. And second, that she'll only go in public when accompanied by another royal. So she's in a sense taking a step, which is significant for her. Do you know anything about her health?
Prime Minister: Nothing more than has been publicly reported, Neil. I've had the great privilege to meet her on several occasions, once with Jenny, and she's the most delightful, most amazing, one of the most amazing people I've ever met. And she loves Australia. She cares deeply about what's happening here in Australia. I mean, last time I spoke to her, she was still concerned about how things had gone since the drought and she was very interested in actually the mouse plague in Australia. She has a quite a keen interest in Australia. She loves, she loves Australia and we love her.
Mitchell: And we wish her well.
Prime Minister: We certainly wish her well and I'll be passing that on through Prince Charles when I, when I imagine I'll see him next week.
Mitchell: OK. You don't have to quarantine when you get back from Scotland, do you?
Prime Minister: No, I don't. I did in the last year Neil and so that probably means I'm one of the most quarantined prime ministers or presidents anywhere in the world.
Mitchell: Prime Minister, you've been herding cats with The Nationals for weeks, we got the promise of zero emissions by 2050. Real world test. I'm having breakfast in Glen Waverley or I'm dropping off the kids to school in Sydney or Brisbane. How will this affect me directly? Not the theory. How will it affect me in the back pocket as the average Australian?
Prime Minister: Well, it will actually affect you positively because we're not going down the path of taxing and regulating people. I mean, Australia's already reduced our emissions by over 20 per cent and our economy has grown by 45 per cent.
Mitchell: Well you must be, must be taxing to some extent because it's going to cost $20 billion. It comes out of taxpayer's money.
Prime Minister: We're investing in a lot of programs, we invest in the NDIS, we invest in government programs, and these investments we're making through ARENA, particularly in the CFC. These are developing the new technologies that are growing the economy. And so it actually is an added benefit. There's a multiplier that comes from doing this, particularly in rural and regional areas. But I mean, on this debate Neil, you mean you've been covering it for a long time. Every day, I've been in parliament over the last 15 years, this has been, you know, the big sort of issue that people have debated here. And I've just sort of got frustrated that there are the two extremes to this. There are those who say, if you achieve, if you commit to net zero by 2050 we’re all ruined, you know, everything has to shut down. Then there's others on the other side who say that Australia has committed a great climate crime and needs to be punished and taxed and regulated, and that's the only way you can do it. Both of those positions are rubbish. There is a middle way here. It's the Australian way and we'll work it out. We'll do it. Our path on technology, not taxes. Choices, not mandates.
Mitchell: So I'll be driving to work. Nothing will be different. No increased petrol prices, increased energy prices. Will I be driving an electric car, will my job change, no change at all to me?
Prime Minister: Well, you make all of those choices yourself. They won't be mandated by the government and there's nothing in our plan which adds one cent to the price of petrol, that takes away one job. In fact, it adds jobs.
Mitchell: I know you've got a net increase, but jobs go. Some people are going to lose their jobs, whether they get one …
Prime Minister: The Australian economy will be bigger. Australia's regions will be stronger and what we will be doing is developing new energy industries in Australia, which will see us be highly successful in the future. Hydrogen is a huge part of that. There's going to be hundreds of billions of dollars, which will flow into these new technologies and their development around the world. Australia has been marked out as one of the high priority places where the hydrogen industry will develop, and we're going to realise that. But there's critical minerals, there's rare earths. These are the things we were actually discussing when I was in Washington with the President, as well as Prime Minister Modi and Prime Minister Suga, that we need to develop these new clean energy supply chains, of which Australia will be a key part. And that's jobs and that's income.
Mitchell: But Prime Minister, 100,000 jobs will go, now you're going to create more, but there are 100,000 people who are going to find jobs changing or going, aren't they?
Prime Minister: Well that happens every month, Neil. I mean, that is that happens every month. The Australian economy is always changing. That is not new. And Australians understand that. Australians understand that there are a lot of changes happening around the world and this is a big change that's happening around the world. We can't change the choices that are being made in Japan or Korea, which they're being made. Now in the United States or Europe, they're making their choices. But what I'm saying, our plan doesn't stop us from digging one thing up, planting, one one head of cattle or anything like that anywhere in Australia. Doesn't change anything. We're going to keep doing what we're doing. We're going to keep adjusting to global demands. We're going to develop the technologies which set us up for the future. And you can get to net zero by 2050 without punishing anyone, taxing anyone or regulating anyone in a way that changes how they want to live their lives. That's what I know.
Mitchell: And no increase in energy prices?
Prime Minister: Yeah, that's what our work shows.
Mitchell: Mike Cannon-Brookes, the Australian tech billionaire is having a go at you today, says the UK plan is nearly 2,000 pages in some detail. Ours is 129, he calls it, excuse the word, bullshit. It's one hundred and twenty nine pages. There's no, there's no modelling and there's no there's not a detailed list.
Prime Minister: The modelling will be released. But the point is we haven't got a plan which is sort of taxing and regulating people and trying to control their lives, Neil. They want action on climate change, but they want their action on climate change. They want the thing which sort of sometimes lines their pockets. What we want is a plan that doesn't intrude on the lives of Australians. That's just not our disposition. We're going to get there and we don't have to go around having Australians feel guilty about how they're earning a living. And you know, one of the things that really sort of annoys me about this debate is that, you know, people have got to try and put a guilt trip on Australians for what they do for a living to support their families. And I think that's wrong. He can make his money his way, good for him. He's been enormously successful. He's a great Australian who's passionate about this topic, and I respect him greatly for that. But that doesn't mean I have to go and tax Australians out of their jobs.
Mitchell: Will Australia's contribution make one iota of difference to the overall world figures?
Prime Minister: Well, of course it will make a contribution, but you're right to know that the ones that are going to make the big contribution are places like China, India ...
Mitchell: How much [inaudible].
Prime Minister: We're around one per cent of global emissions. That's what we are. But Neil, the point about us taking action on this is less about that than understanding that if we want to realise the opportunities of the changes happening in the global economy, the changes that are happening in the energy economy to attract investment, to develop these new technologies. You can't stand on the sidelines. If you don't, if you don't go down this path, you’ll freeze Australia out of this investment. That will cost us jobs. If we don't go down this path, it'll cost us jobs, especially in rural and regional Australia.
Mitchell: Well, why can’t we see as far as that nuclear power? We've got heaps of uranium. Why can't we accept that nuclear power is the future and work out how to do it?
Prime Minister: Well, I think it's, I'm fine to have a debate about it.
Mitchell: You're not frightened of coal, but you're not frightened of nuclear. You tell people not to be frightened of coal. Isn't this message the same? Don't be frightened of nuclear.
Prime Minister: I think that they're two different issues, and I think people have different impressions of both of those things. But in the United States at the moment, they won't have small modular reactors operating at scale over there for about a decade. It should be just around about 2030. They've regulated for the first one of those to be done. So if we're thinking this is going to massively change the paradigm in the next 10 years, that's not true either.
Mitchell: But we've got to start working on it surely…
Prime Minister: ... Technology develops and we'll be able to watch that and see where it goes.
Mitchell: But surely, we want to be in the game? We've got to start thinking about it and talking about it …
Prime Minister: We already do. I mean, we've got ANSTO. It's one of the most, it's a great nuclear science organisation. It's already there and we're developing obviously the capabilities to support the nuclear submarine programme. So it's not like we don't know things about this area. We do. There is a technological capability here that looks at this. But in terms of lifting the moratorium for civil nuclear power in this country, we don't have any plans to do that. There's a moratorium, there's no bipartisan commitment. All that would do is just hand the Labor Party the opportunity to talk about something else at the election, rather than the fact that they don't even have a 2030 target for emissions, let alone a plan for 2050.
Mitchell: Just a couple of quick things, I know we're out of time, housing ownership is down sixty five point five. The lowest figures since 1954, but the housing market is horrendous to try to get into it. Can you fix it?
Prime Minister: Well, we have been. I mean, the homebuilder first home loan deposit scheme, particularly our programme to support single parents get into first homes that's got tens of thousands of people into new homes since the last election, as I promised to do. I mean, buying a home is never easy. I mean, I mean, everyone who has gone through that at whatever stage of life. It's very, very difficult. But that's why our first home loan deposit scheme, which actually means you can only need a deposit of as little as five per cent. That's making a huge difference to first home buyers and particularly our homebuilder programme, which was rubbished by the Labor Party, has got tens of thousands of people, particularly into their first homes.
Mitchell: Prime Minister, it's been a tough few years with pandemics and now herding the national cats, cats, as you said, forced into quarantine. How are you handling it personally?
Prime Minister: Oh, thanks for asking, Neil.
Mitchell: You are human. You are.
Prime Minister: Yeah, it's very kind of you to ask. But look, I mean, my faith and my family, that's what sustains me. I love them dearly. I haven't been able to see them as much as I'd like. But kids are back at school. They're doing well. Jen's amazing. And you know, we all have our support networks and good friends like anyone else, we're finding our way through this. I'm no different, but I'm just very appreciative to all Australians about how they've been, you know, getting through. We've invested a lot in mental health support in this country, Neil, as you know, particularly in Melbourne, Pat McGorry, a great Victorian, great Australian, has been a constant source of counsel and advice to me over this course of these last two years particularly, and I'm very proud of the work we've done in mental health in the pandemic. Australia has actually been right at the top of the list in understanding the mental health impacts of this pandemic.
Mitchell: But what do you do for your own mental health if you get stressed, if you get down, what do you do?
Prime Minister: Oh, I exercise, but that's the main one that I try and do. And spend as much time as I can with family and friends that doesn't involve talking about politics.
Mitchell: Thank you so much for your time.
Prime Minister: Good on you. Thanks Neil.
Mitchell: Prime Minister Scott Morrison.