Prime Minister
Paul Murray: So, in 2019, you thanked the quiet Australians. You know tonight that many of those quiet Australians are angry, many of them getting in touch with myself, and no doubt you've heard as well. They are furious about the decision the Government has made. Let's talk directly to those people watching tonight who might have been throwing something at the telly for the past few days.
Prime Minister: Sure.
Murray: What do you say to the quiet Australians who think we're exactly the opposite of where we were in 2019?
Prime Minister: Well, in 2019, there was two plans. There was Bill Shorten's plan, which said he wanted to reduce emissions by 2030, by 45 per cent, and there was our plan to reduce it by 26 to 28 per cent. Now, that's what we've gone ahead with. The 45 per cent plan was rejected - that would have put terrible costs on the Australian community. It would have forced things that didn't have to be forced, and we've gone down the other path and that's exactly what we've done. I mean, emissions have actually fallen by 20 per cent since 2005, but yet our economy has grown by 45 per cent. There’s three million people in jobs. In fact, there are now a million people in manufacturing jobs here in Australia now. Under Labor, we lost one in eight manufacturing jobs. It's now back up over a million and that's happened during COVID. So, the last election was about those two issues - a 45 per cent emissions reduction target from Labor, which we rejected, and a 26 to 28 per cent, which I took to the last election. And, of course, we were successful, and that's what we have done. But the other thing, Paul, I'd say to your viewers who who are concerned about this is this, the world is making their decisions about this. They are deciding whether it's in Japan or South Korea or indeed the United States and Europe and other places, they're making decisions and those decisions about how they're responding to climate change obviously have an impact on Australia. We understand that. They're not decisions Australia are taking. They’re decisions other countries are taking. And, so, we understand that the world economy is changing and we have to ensure that we can protect Australia from those negative impacts and realise any opportunities, and there are many of them that will come to us. And, so, what we've done today is enabled Australia to realise that. We can't just shut Australia off from the rest of the world and think none of that is happening. It is happening. Investment will go in different directions. The cost of what we borrow will go up. All of these things will happen unless we can work with this. And Australians are already doing it. That's the point, Paul. There's nothing in our plan today that takes away one job, that takes away one dollar, that puts up electricity prices by one cent. Everything we're doing under our plan is just encouraging Australians to do what they're already doing. We're not telling people what cars they can buy or what choices they have to make. That's not our plan. That's what the Labor Party does. A commitment to achieve net zero by 2050 I said I would only ever contemplate if we had a plan that enabled us to achieve it. And what we've been able to determine is that can happen without taxes, without mandating anything, keeping the lights on, and making sure we're very open and transparent about what the impacts are. And, so, that's what we've done. We can't just pretend these things aren't going to happen from overseas. These things are occurring. And as Prime Minister, I need to protect Australia from those impacts. Decisions being made in other parts of the world, going to have an impact here. Our plan helps us both protect Australians from that and realise the opportunities so we can succeed, as we have all along.
Murray: Does anything change to that 2030 plan, the plan that people agreed to in 2019 that they recommit to potentially again in 2022? Because it seems that that has been sort of lost in all the noise here. And I know there's a discussion from 2030 to 2050, but what changes between now and 2030 from what has always been the plan, as even legislated by the Government after Paris?
Prime Minister: Well, it wasn't legislated, but nothing has changed. Nothing has changed at all. Exactly what I took to the last election. And there was no discussion of net zero by 2050 at the next, at the last election. That wasn't the debate at the last election. It was a choice between those two 2030 plans. We haven't changed our plan. In fact, it goes back to the 26 to 28 per cent, was originally set by Tony, followed up then by Malcolm. And, of course, we've maintained that position and I took it to the last election. So, nothing has changed about that. The only thing that's changed is Australia is actually, through the things they're doing themselves, is seeing our emissions fall faster than had been anticipated. So, we'll comfortably achieve those 26 to 28 per cent reductions. In fact, with the technology and changes that we're investing in, we believe that could fall by as much as 35 per cent. But that's not, we're not closing down a thing. We're not asking anything to be closed down. We're going to keep digging. We're going to keep mining. We're going to keep farming. We're going to keep doing all of these things. And nothing in our plan is about shutting any of those things down. And, so, I can understand why viewers might think, well, you know, if you commit to this, that means all these things have to shut down. No, that's not true. These things will continue to operate as long as there are markets to serve and and we can keep going with those things, we will. So, our mining and resources industry, in particular, when you think about the things that are needed to be produced in steel and aluminium and all the various things that make up a lot of this new clean energy technology, critical minerals, rare earths, they're all here in the ground in Australia. We'll be digging them up. I was talking to the head of Rio today, Rio Tinto - exactly where they're heading. I mean, our mining and resources industry are going to excel in Australia. They're going to go stronger. Of course, things will change as consumer choices, countries like in Japan and Korea who are already making these choices. So, you know, Paul, there'll be some who'll tell people who are watching tonight, who tell them that, oh, if we don't commit to this, then nothing's going to change. That's not true. It's not being honest. It's not being honest. There are things that are changing around the world, and we're wise to that. And the Liberals and Nationals, honestly, we have wrestled with this thing. It's been really hard, but we made the decision that it's in the country's best interests to ensure that we don't cut Australia off from the opportunities, that we don't mandate things to close or shut things down. We're not doing any of that. What we're doing is making sure we can realise the opportunities and protect against the risks. That's what a sensible government does.
Murray: So, we've seen the pie charts, I’ve shown them plenty of times on the show, right, which show China, a giant chunk, the rest of the world, a giant chunk, the United States, Russia, and then the small little sliver that is Australia. Again, to people watching who will often say, why are we going to do anything when China can do whatever the hell it wants till 2030? Where does the pressure start to come on to China? Because it feels like, you know, all day, every day I read about what Australia’s doing, but I don’t read much about what China is doing.
Prime Minister: That's a fair point. And this is the, this is the argument I've been making when I've been at a lot of these international events. I've been saying pretty simply, you're not going to deal with climate change by getting countries, advanced countries to put taxes on themselves and think that's going to solve climate change. That's not going to happen in China. It's not going to happen in India. It's not going to happen in Vietnam or Indonesia or any of these other places. Their emissions will just keep going up. There's only one way that you fix this, and that is through technology that can be affordable and scaled and operate, whether it's here in Australia or in Indonesia or elsewhere, at a price that is competitive to the alternatives. And that's what our plan is about. It's not about trying to shut things down, it's about giving us the technology tools to do it cheaper, to do it smarter. And we, I want Australia to be in that. I don't want Australia to be locked out of it. And that's the great risk we faced. And, so, it's important we do that. And your viewers are right about, Australia is a very small proportion. That is true. But what I want to ensure is Australia is not excluded, that Australia is not cut off from that investment that might otherwise come. People want to invest in a country where there's a plan to develop these things, and that's what this is. And I think that's going to see more investment come in to Australia. I think it's going to create more jobs. It's going to support rural and regional communities. I mean, our fund here that is driving a lot of this technological change - $20 billion over 10 years. Now, that $20 billion, it's going into rural and regional areas. And there'll be more that we will do to support rural and regional communities be successful in the future, because we know both their way of life, their living and their costs of living are incredibly important.
Murray: Why can't nuclear be part of the technological options for the next 30 years?
Prime Minister: Well, we'll see what happens down the track. But right now, right now there's a moratorium on nuclear here in Australia, and the Labor Party are totally opposed to it. And I'm just not going to put Australia through the argument, which doesn't get us anywhere because the moratorium isn't lifted, and for the Labor Party to run around at the next election and get themself elected on the basis of a scare campaign. I mean, that's just what would happen. It would, I mean, I'm not about to hand the Labor Party that sort of an opportunity. They're opposed to it. They don't ever want to consider it, they say. But I think if Australia is to move ahead, just as my predecessors and going back many years now, have always said that in the Liberal and Nationals, unless there's a bipartisan commitment to this, then it won't, it'll be too difficult to proceed with at this point. But, you know, it’s, we'll see what happens down the track. There'll be a lot of developments in this space that are occurring overseas - small modular reactors, within the next decade, I expect to see them in the United States. They've done environmental approvals for those. So, we'll watch all that very closely. But we have no intention of lifting that moratorium. We believe we can get to net zero by 2050 through this technological plan. And that's the way we've set ourselves.
Murray: Now, we know that there's a fistful of poles, probably a pile of poles, that’ll say, got to do something, want something, we want people to do more, all the rest of it, right. But, equally, you know, there's a fistful of poles that say people aren’t willing to pay anything to do it. So, what do you say to people watching tonight about what the cost is here - either the cost of transition 20 years away, about a job that exists now that won’t exist in 20 years, what do you say about the cost of a power bill, the cost of the money to the Budget to help prop up technologies? Because the truth is, this can't be done without any cost. But give us an idea about the sense of cost that you see beyond 2030.
Prime Minister: Oh, I can tell it what it is right now. And the low emissions technology roadmap, which sits at the heart of how we achieve this, is a $20 billion investment over the next decade, and that will draw into it - because it's a partnered investment program - between about $60 and $100 billion from the private sector and other participants. And that is what will fuel, which will drive the technological development and things like hydrogen and batteries and carbon capture and storage. I mean, right now, in the Parliament right now, we are trying to change the law, which enables us to invest in carbon capture and storage, which is what is called a negative emissions technology, which will continue to support the way that we use fossil fuels right now, whether they be coal or gas, to ensure that they continue to provide reliable power in this country. Now, the Labor Party’s voting against that. They’ve voted against it seven times. So, we've just got a practical view about this, Paul. This is a practical problem which needs a practical solution. You know, I've been in place, this place, 15 years, and people have been arguing about this for the last 15 years, and I've heard people screaming at each other from both ends of the spectrum - you know, we're all going to be ruined either way. And, you know, I think most Australians just want to deal with this, to deal with it in a no fuss way, to not shut things down and take people's jobs away from them. They understand the world's a complex place and things are changing around the world. Australia deciding to do net zero by 2050 is not going to change that. But the changes that are taking place around the world will still happen. And I'm just not going to let that happen to Australians. I've got a plan to protect them and to help them go forward. And you know, you can trust the Liberals and Nationals for an economic plan to deal with this. I mean, the environmental issues are very important. But what really matters now is, who's got the best economic plan to deal with this? Who do you trust at the end of the day to have an economic plan that can help navigate us through this very challenging period, especially in rural and regional? Do you trust the Labor Party, who every time they get the opportunity they'll just regulate you more and put more taxes on you? Do you trust the others who are just going to shout from the sidelines and shout at the clouds? Or do you trust people who’ve been able to manage a strong economy?