Prime Minister
Ray Hadley: Prime Minister, good morning to you.
Prime Minister: G’day, Ray. Good to see you on 360 last night.
Hadley: I'm glad you were able to watch it.
Prime Minister: Yeah, I got, I got in last night, and if I find myself there at about that time, I'll switch it on. So yeah.
Hadley: Well it’s a good catch up when you’re flat out about what's happened in rugby league over the past week or so.
Prime Minister: It is.
Hadley: Now, I mean, I don't understand it. You’re copping a hammering at the moment about the borders and the sensible decision. You’re erring on the side of caution, as you've done through most of this, and thinking, well, we'll just have to wait a bit and maybe next year. But you see, if you go too early, everything that you and the state premiers have done in the last 12 months will come asunder. It'll all be brought undone if you go too early. That's your problem, is it not?
Prime Minister: Yeah, it's called rushing to failure. And Australians, I think, are demonstrating a great deal of patience. And I think the position that we have been maintaining is the sensible one. That doesn't mean we're not planning for when we can do it. And we do have to plan for that, whether that's how people can, you know, not be subject to domestic restrictions if they've been vaccinated, or potentially travel overseas and and quarantine differently when they come back, or how we can bring students and all that sort of thing when it's safe to do so. We've got to get all that right. And that's, the work goes on now. But for now and for sort of some time yet, we need to play it safe. That's what protects lives and that's also what protects livelihoods, people's jobs.
Hadley: We've had this 47-year-old lose his life in India, an Australian citizen …
Prime Minister: … Yeah …
Hadley: … who went there of his own volition last month, to I believe attend his mum's funeral.
Prime Minister: Yeah.
Hadley: She'd passed away with COVID. But you see what worries me, the variants we're talking about, this was apparently a fit, healthy man at 47, and it grabbed him and took him down very, very quickly.
Prime Minister: It's, look, it's a dangerous place. Since the 23rd of April, I think, Ray, more than 1,000 people have sought to travel to India. Now, we haven't let them go for obvious reasons. Earlier, you know, you know, last year and there were arrangements where people, if they, you know it's terrible what's happened to this, this relatively young man. And it's a tragedy, and when it, when we lose an Australian anywhere, and sadly that happens in all around the world when people are in dangerous places. And so I feel for the family, but, you know, it's not, it's not a safe place. And we're trying to bring people back safely. But, but equally, we've got to do it in a way which doesn't put at risk everything that's been achieved here in Australia.
Hadley: You had a word to say yesterday about the CEO of Virgin Jayne Hrdlicka. And I didn't crucify her yesterday. I thought maybe, you know, she said things that she may regret, and I think the airline is now making statements to …
Prime Minister: … Yeah …
Hadley: ... in some way mitigate what was said. But you and I have discussed this before, Prime Minister. There are some people in the media who talk about, oh, if you don’t die of that, you don't die with COVID, you die, but, you know, and all the rest of it. And it's not a problem. It's no worse than the flu. I think people have got to understand, and this is how I feel, any life is precious.
Prime Minister: Of course it is.
Hadley: I don't care whether it's an eight-year-old or a 48-year-old or a 98-year-old.
Prime Minister: I agree with that and have all the way through. Look, I said yesterday, I don't really want to say much more …
Hadley: ... No …
Prime Minister: … because I think, I thought it was insensitive but I think the company has walked that back. I appreciate that. And it was, you know, said in the business environment. But, that, still it is what it is. But look, I think it is important that we acknowledge. I mean, we've had 910 people pass away in Australia because of COVID. And, yes, the majority of those have been quite elderly, particularly in Victoria when that second wave went through. But every single one of those lives is somebody's mum, dad, sister, brother, cousin, aunty, uncle. It's, and, you know, we've, we've avoided 30,000 deaths in this country. If you take the average fatality rate of what has been experienced in countries just like Australia, what are known as the OECD countries - you know, similar, you know, advanced economies, good health systems, prosperous economies - if we had their average fatality rate, 30,000 more Australians would have died in this country. And that's what we've avoided together. So as you said before, we don't want to rush to failure. We want to make sure we preserve that. The Budget’s all about securing that recovery. And, and we're going to stay on that track, keep doing what's working and working together.
Hadley: It looks like I'll have my AstraZeneca next week, I now qualify. But I'm seeing a lot of pushback. There's a poll published in the Herald today, about 29 per cent of Australians, for varying reasons, not want or having any, whether it's AstraZeneca or whether it's Pfizer or whether it's, you know, one other, Moderna or whatever. Is that concerning, that we've been so good as a nation, but there seems to be just a core of people at the moment who are resisting for varying reasons, being vaccinated, particularly with AstraZeneca?
Prime Minister: Well, no, I'm not, I'm not overly troubled. I mean, we've obviously got to work on it. But that, what it also seems to me, around 70 per cent of people want to have it, Ray. So let's just get on with them. They, there's plenty of time to have the chat with the others who are still a bit hesitant. That’s, that's alright, free country, and they should talk to their doctor. Those who are hardcore against it is a much smaller number.
Hadley: Yeah.
Prime Minister: Much, much smaller number.
Hadley: Sure.
Prime Minister: But there are others, I think, who are open to the conversation, and we'll have that. I think we've also got to remember in a country where, as you just announced the COVID cases before I came on, zero community transmission too. It's different to the UK or certainly the US and across Europe where it’s a choice between having the vaccine or putting your life at risk.
Hadley: Yeah.
Prime Minister: So there's a different equation here in Australia. And so even with a very, and people, I heard someone this morning on the radio in an interview I was doing up in Newcastle, and they were talking about, you know, we know it's a really small risk. But the risk of getting COVID is not perceived as great here. But the truth is, it's good for the health of the country to do it. We're making great progress, I think we’re well over three million now. We’ve got over 85 per cent of the aged care facilities covered, and we're on track there. So, you know, we’ll just keep working through the 70 per cent who’s happy to get it done. So, like you, you're in that 70 per cent, make your booking, and you're over 50, and we'll get ahead and we'll get it done.
Hadley: I know you're flat strapped …
Prime Minister: … You’re right …
Hadley: … but one comment about PETA. I mean, look, they're totally irrelevant. And it became more irrelevant with their nonsense this morning about this mouse plague in New South Wales, all parts of New South Wales. I’m watching vision on TV in the studio at the moment. It’s horrendous. And they want some sort of Pied Piper solution to drag them away and rehabilitate them. I mean, they’re stark raving mad, aren’t they?
Prime Minister: Oh, it’s pretty dopey. It's pretty dopey. And the devastation and heartbreak that's being experienced by, by farmers in New South Wales, it's just so hard to see. We've been, like, we've been through drought, we’ve been through fires. We've gone, I was up in, up around the Manning River floods recently on the mid-north coast. And now we've got this, and it is just one thing after another. And I, apart from the comments, being, I think very, again, insensitive, to the plight that those farmers are going through, I just think they’re pretty dopey. The New South Wales Government’s dealing with that and good for them. Good on Gladys for getting on about that. It's, you know, it’s in New South Wales. And if they need help, they'll ask for it, but they're on it. So good on to them.
Hadley: Okay. I've said this to the Premier, I’ve said it to the Queensland Premier. You still find the energy to stump up every day, all of you. I mean, I think the day that COVID no longer is a problem in Australia or across the world will be a day that perhaps it's a bit like Bob Hawke saying after the America's Cup win of the 80s, everyone can have a day off. And if the boss won't give you a day off today, they're not much good.
Prime Minister: Yeah, well, I think sadly, I think that day’s still some way away. I mean, we're doing, we’re doing really well here, and I've spent most of this week when I've been meeting with people - I was up in Gladstone earlier in the week and down through Brissy, down in Melbourne at the moment - and what Australians have done, particularly small business owners have done to get, you know, to just hold their staff together, of course, JobKeeper all that, that all helped them. But all of those policies would, basically had they, had one assumption that Australians were going to persist, they were going to look after each other, they were going to keep pressing ahead, and that's what they've done. So I'm incredibly grateful for the way that Australians have just pressed on. Yeah a few people here and there had a bit of a whinge. But overwhelmingly Australians have been just absolutely amazing. And that's the secret to our success.
Hadley: You see, I think, what the point you made through the conversation earlier was we've been so successful and we think we're totally immune from it, and that's where that 29 per cent figure comes from. For herd immunity we need to be over 90 per cent. But I think because of that success and the zero cases in the community, which I read out every day …
Prime Minister: … Yeah …
Hadley: … people became a bit apathetic. I mean, it’ll only take one outbreak somewhere. And we've dodged a bullet in New South Wales. We've dodged a bullet in other areas. And let's hope we keep dodging them. But one more outbreak and it could go the other way.
Prime Minister: Well, we saw that in Victoria and we're seeing it in Singapore at the moment. They’re shutting things down and Singapore's done very, very well. In Taiwan, a country that has done extraordinarily well, they’re going into restrictions, I think, for the first time. So the virus is a, is quite a, quite an opponent. And the only person I'm fighting is the virus. That's my job as Prime Minister. Others might want to fight with me. But I'll keep fighting the virus on behalf of Australians.
Hadley: Alright, as always, thanks for your time. We appreciate it.
Prime Minister: Thanks a lot, Ray. Good to chat, cheers.
Hadley: All the best.