Prime Minister
BEN ENGLISH: And it's good to hear some announcements, too. It's always good when we put on an event as a paper, and you get a story out of it so thank you.
PRIME MINISTER: I don't think you’re short of stories Ben.
ENGLISH: They’re all good. Look, we had a really tragic development today that is very related to what you have spoken about and was published today in the Telegraph. That is about the serious issue of borders and border restrictions. Would it be fair to say there's no greater mission for the National Cabinet than to sort this out?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I want to start by saying that National Cabinet has never resolved to establish internal borders. Early on in the pandemic we resolved to do a number of things. There were closures that were put in place, and they were done across 8 territories and state jurisdictions. And I think that process provided a lot of certainty. But at the same time, we are very conscious of the changes that were being made were going to have very real impacts for people. I'd say there's probably only been two areas of significant disagreement that has occurred in the National Cabinet. And I don't think the Premiers would disagree with me on this. They were, there were some disagreements about school closures. People know what my position on that was. Ultimately they were decisions that states and territories make. But there was an honest discussion. There was a robust debate. And there has also been this discussion of borders. And there has been a different practice. So this is why it's hard. With New South Wales and Victoria, and the Commonwealth we actually got on the phone, realised there was a medical problem. Agreed this is what we had to do, and then we worked together as best as we could to try and make it is as workable as possible. There's been a border commissioner for some time on that border. And that border commissioner's been called in to help work through some of these problems. But as I've said before, if you impose a border you can't help but cause problems. That's why we got rid of them in the first place. Other states and territories, South Australia, Tasmania, Queensland, Western Australia imposed either direct borders or quasi borders, unilaterally. And at the time that was done, I've got to say, this was early on in the pandemic. It wasn't the most pressing issue at that time. In hindsight, I think back then we should have addressed the principles around how those borders were being handled at that time. If I had my time over then I think we would have spent more time on that. But frankly, at that point in time we were looking at people digging mass graves in New York, and we were dealing with the difficulties of building up our health systems to ensure we had enough respirators in ICUs and there was a lot of uncertainty. That's not an excuse. That's just an explanation. So now we find ourselves in a situation where there is, I think, too much inconsistency between these arrangements. We've endeavoured to get some principles to the government, sought to underpin how these work. States, obviously can ultimately take the decision about how that applies. But my appeal to them, and I think today both this, just, many of us in this room are parents, it’s unthinkable. And to know that this family has had to be dealing with border permits at a time when they, the only thing that mattered was the health of their child. [Inaudible] to say that, but [inaudible] feel the same. So let's hope we can get some greater consistency, some greater transparency and we can look to the other examples. I commit myself to work with that with the states and territories. I hope I can get some better arrangements and they'll hear my criticisms or, do anything [inaudible] jurisdictions, but on behalf of Australians we've we've got to try and get this worked out.
ENGLISH: So just, um, how we are going to roll with this is we're going to have one or two questions from the floor. And we’ve also, we've got a COVID aware approach, we've got a couple of one or two video questions as well. So just on the issue of the state, I want to stay briefly on the issue of borders. Getting the CMO involved it seems to me that's a good approach in order to take perhaps political considerations a little bit more out of it and make it more about common sense approach. Would that be a fair assumption?
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, look I particularly thank Steven Marshall, who was instrumental in sort of getting us in this place with the states and for the acting chief medical officer, and they're working with the medical expert panel now to get, what is a hotspot? Now, Northern Territory has actually had a pretty reasonable way of doing this, and it's quite flexible and it moves if there are particular places, if there are cases they make a decision then they move them off fairly quickly. And the reason I just pointed over there, is this is what happens in Denmark. They have a sort of a yellow and orange light system because in Europe people are still moving around. Now, I'm not suggesting this is precisely what we do in Australia. But hotspots are defined where there’s an incidence of per 100,000 inhabitants per week are below 20 where there’s these cases? So they have clear metrics like this and say this goes yellow, and orange and different quarantine arrangements apply or whether you can go there or not go there. I think that's quite a sensible approach. Now the specifics of that I'll leave to the medical experts to work out what is the right concentration of cases to represent a hotspot. And the whole point about containing outbreaks is that sure, it's important that you don't, people don't move from a hotspot in Melbourne to Brisbane. But it's also important that if they're in a hotspot in Brisbane they don't go to Ipswich. And so what matters is the outbreak and containing it there. And as localised as possible. And I think these sort of cities have to do this. Now if, I can assure you of this, there will be a Commonwealth definition of a hotspot. Come rain, hail or shine. I hope it's a National Cabinet one but, and I will certainly seek to achieve that. But at the very least, there will be a Commonwealth one. And if there are any differences to that, well people can explain them.
ENGLISH: Yep. And there will be accountability there. I think if I can make an observation there, I think Aussies also would appreciate that because you've got to keep faith with, faith with the population. So if it's arbitrary the way it is now, you can have a situation where people don't feel that they're that they believe you?
PRIME MINISTER: All through this pandemic and I understand people will be frustrated and critical at the moment. I think National Cabinet has done some tremendous things. I mean let’s talk about the freight code, Michael got that up in 2 weeks. We've got a $1 billion commitment to skills with JobTrainer, 340,000 places, and an agreement to reform the skills system. We got that in a fortnight. That would've taken two years under COAG. And all, there are many other things. So that's good. But this is one where we've got to get it right.
ENGLISH: Okay, enough from me. I'm going to invite a question from the floor. In order to be COVIDSafe I'd invite a questioner to come and then we've actually got people who can ask that question on your behalf. It's just so that we don't get multiple people using the microphone. So is there a question from the floor?
QUESTIONER: I'm asking a question on behalf of Gary Nairn the former member for Eden-Monaro, who is Chairman of The Mulloon Institute. Prime Minister you and the Deputy Prime Minister witnessed firsthand what occurred almost two years ago. Now, in the middle of the drought, how landscape repair and rehydration enhances agriculture. The Deputy PM said at that time this should be rolled out across the country. Prime Minister, we know farmers are hands on people. So to assist this rollout to occur would the government support a farmer, peer-to-peer benchmarking, training and upskilling programme to improve for carbon farm productivity, biodiversity and drought preparedness.
PRIME MINISTER: As Gary knows, [inaudible] and I think there are tremendous lessons with what’s achieved there and I think the peer-to-peer support that happens in rural and regional communities, particularly when dealing with challenging situations like drought. And even when farmers have been generational farmers. Sometimes it's some of the new farmers that we need to learn the new techniques and there's sometimes going to be resistance. I mean, farmers are no different to, you know, doctors or journalists or politicians. Sometimes they can be a bit resistant to change. And I think these practices are very challenging and they're the sort of results that are there to speak of. And so through the Ag2030 plan and the work Ben’s doing or others are doing, I hope we can get water rollout and supported projects like that. They obviously are getting results. And so, you know me Gary I'll support what works.
ENGLISH: Right. We're going to get another question from the floor. And then after that, we'll go to a video question so that's a bit of a cue to our technical team.
QUESTIONER: This is from Helen Dalton, the member from Murray. And her electorate covers a thousand kilometres of border. Given what you've said today, Prime Minister, advocating the importance of advocating in regard to border closures, they're not sustainable now into the future. Can you give border communities assurance that borders will be opened for many reasons, health, education, business and compassionate reasons? We want action today.
PRIME MINISTER: Well I thank you for your question. I see John Barilaro, did I see John? G'day John. And I’m sure he can talk about this as well. I’m not sure if you were here before John when I mentioned you. I think New South Wales and Victoria don't want to see this border either. It's necessary for a time. And I hope that time is as little as possible. We don’t build a permanent border. We want to have it there for the period as necessary to deal with the current health challenge and then you get rid of it. And I welcome the fact that John and Gladys have a) brought in the 50 kilometre either side of the border rule change. That's good. That's an improvement. Doesn't solve every problem. You've got 100 kilometres for ag workers. That's good. I welcome that. I was on the phone to Gladys about that one as well weeks ago.
What I've found with New South Wales was a receptivity to try and work out the kinks and the problems. But I think we both understand that you put a border and there's going to be problems. So the only way ultimately to fix all that is to get rid of it. But you've got to do that when you're in a position where you can safely do that with the other risks that it presents. Now, I know that there are not, you know, large numbers of cases in regional Victoria in these border communities. That is true. But at the same time, movement can occur and the last thing any of us want to see is what has occurred in Melbourne and then to the rest of Victoria happening in New South Wales. And in South Australia I should add. So our commitment I think, is that for New South Wales and I’d say for Victoria as well, because Dan Andrews and Gladys and I have been the most I would say forceful advocates for non-borders. And so I can assure you that when we put them in place the three of us, we’ll be the first to get rid of it whenever we possibly can. Is that fair to say, John?
BARILARO: [Inaudible]
QUESTIONER: [Inaudible] and we’re school captains at school in Cooma. We would like to know what are the government's current and future plans for bridging inequities faced by rural students such as access to technology and reliable internet?
PRIME MINISTER: Great. Well, I can speak specifically to what's happening here in this community. I mean, we’ve got a hundred percent complete rollout of the NBN across Eden-Monaro and there's a technology split across the various ways that that's being rolled out. And, of course, that has been a big part of connecting regional communities all around the country. I remember, seven years ago, the level of rollout was obviously not at 100 per cent. Nothing like it in fact it was a very limited rollout. And the rollout of the NBN is obviously going to connect more and more towns and regional centres to do that type of training delivery. But it's not just about that, as Michael constantly reminds me and Dan Tehan constantly reminds me. It's about actually having a training place take place, not remotely from cities back into regional communities, but it happening in regional communities themselves. And that we're training apprentices in regional areas that we’re training doctors and nurses in regional areas. And the additional doctors and nurses training program that Michael championed in budgets, um, three years ago now, I think, I was Treasurer at the time. Training more people in regional communities the higher education changes that Dan Tehan has been working through come now, now come to the parliament. I think they were introduced yesterday. They are about ensuring there are more regional places so people can be getting those opportunities and not having to go to the city. And I hope that it also means that those in the city may take the opportunity to go and try to be a doctor in the bush or in other places or in other areas, because having become engaged in communities, you won't find a more passionate advocate than Michael McCormack for living in a regional part of Australia. And encouraging people to know what he and his family have known, the great life you have in regional Australia, and the opportunity is there for all your kids and others and we'll all continue to encourage that. So whether it's skills placements, whether its technical training, whether it's universities or indeed just ensuring that we have the proper NBN networks and infrastructure and technology available to facilitate all these things in regional areas is a very high priority.
ENGLISH: That’s good to hear, particularly given [inaudible] Daily Telegraph so it’s true. There's a very strong appetite amongst people in the cities to move to the bush and we need to be ready for that. We’ve got a question on behalf of another floor participant.
QUESTIONER: Question from Margy Osmond from the TTF. The tourism industry particularly regional tourism has trickled down to a flow of people around the country. Can we please solve this before the Christmas holidays?
PRIME MINISTER: Well look, I believe we can, domestically. I'd love to say we could do it internationally but I don't think I can give you that pledge internationally. I hope that changes but based on the current evidence that doesn't look likely. But certainly domestically, when we're in a position to have the Melbourne figures in particular fall to even lower levels than they are now, and we have a hotspot definition in place, and that being adopted and certain borders down between New South Wales and Victoria, and I believe that should be possible in other places with low levels of virus infection. Then that should be possible. And what's important is that when these infection rates get down to low levels that then we stick to the plan which I think NSW has done, which is to limit the virus. See borders of themselves, they don’t actually do the job ultimately because borders can be breached. I mean, that’s been seen in Queensland. They have borders but they’ve seen cases in Queensland. But what will protect Queensland will be their testing and their tracing capabilities and COVIDSafe behaviours by their population and local outbreak containment. That's what enables you to live with the virus. The idea that we're going to live with domestic borders until there’s a vaccine is a recipe for economic ruin. That is not the plan. The plan is to ensure testing, tracing and outbreak containment, strong quarantine, COVID safe behaviours in the workplace, in the home, at the footy club, at the ground, in this conference. That is how you live with the virus and keep people in jobs. Borders don’t do that. Borders are not the answer. They can provide a necessary support and constraint in a heightened crisis, but they are a last go to effort. And in New South Wales, I think has demonstrated and they’ve shown the way. And I think that's the way to go.
ENGLISH: Just yesterday I went to the airport for the first time in about six months, and it was like a zombie movie. It was a really eerie experience because there's no one. There was three Rex women there wanting to take my luggage and they were desperate to- They wanted to [inaudible] because they probably hadn’t done it for a couple of weeks. And I think that was a depressing moment. At the same time, we have travel around Europe. You know, people getting on flights from London to Italy et cetera. And you made the point that it is a different situation here. But surely that should be a good by product of whatever progress you make with these border negotiations with the states, is that we get the planes back in the air.
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah well, one of the other, there are many programmes that we put in place. And one of the ones Michael has been running is the subsidising of the key network flights around the the country. And I never thought I'd live in an Australia where there were more flights going from Brisbane to Cairns and there were from Sydney to Brisbane. And that's happening right now. And the Federal Government is subsidising the network flights around the country and I want to see jobs back at Qantas have had to cut more jobs, not my words, but Alan Joyce's words, because of border restrictions, domestic ones. They know about the international ones, they understand that. But the domestic ones, that is costing more jobs, now that's not to say borders in circumstances can't be justified on health outcomes. In some circumstances they can. But, we have to understand that when you do that, that costs jobs, particularly in the airline sector.
And so there has to be an accountability around that I suppose every day, and we want to see a viable airline industry, I think the way that Qantas has been able to raise capital in the middle of a pandemic is pretty impressive I've got to say, they've been getting great support from us, as has Virgin and I'm pleased to see that Virgin is rebirthing through this process. They had a lot of challenges you know, before the pandemic it's great to see they're coming through on the other side of it. But this is why I agree with Margie, I mean, ultimately, you've got to get planes back in the air. And you make the point about Europe. I don't know. I mean, I spoke to a lot of those leaders. I mean, we've now seen a massive second wave starting to begin, in the U.K. in Spain, in France and all that moving around over there. I mean, I'm not likening to that, I think we've still got to keep our strong international arrangements in place. We've had I think, you know, I'm keen to get the New Zealand travel bubble back in place, and I'm sure we'll take that up again soon. I'd like to see that also if we can, amongst the Pacific nations, they're keen to do that. Japan is trying to do it with us, Singapore is keen to do it with us. And there are a number of nations that are happy to do this with us. And I can see that as the next stage, but right now we're trying to get the domestic borders open.
ENGLISH: You mentioned China, and it’s been mentioned a couple times today already. And it's a particularly obviously a vexing issue for [inaudible] who have developed lucrative trade links with China. What would be your advice to small, medium, even larger enterprises that have forged those links and now find themselves perhaps in the middle of a delicate, a delicate diplomatic situation? What's your advice to them? Do they, how do they pivot? Or do they, is it about patience as well as pivoting, what do they do?
PRIME MINISTER: Well I think it's all of the above. I think it's also very important to get paperwork right, I don't, I mean that quite seriously. In these times you don't want create situations where if the paperwork is wrong then that can prevent entry. Which you'd expect that if it's not right, it won't get in. And so we've been working with industry to that end and we encourage people to do that.
This is not new. This has been happening for several years now. I mean, the last meeting I had with Li Keqiang last year, we were talking about abattoir issues. We were talking about agricultural issues. So these, a lot of these issues go back also to anti-dumping measures, there were some anti-dumping decisions Australia has taken that the Chinese Government has taken issue with and that goes back some years. So there is a, there is a lot of light and heat on occasion around some of these issues. And some of that is a bit more dramatic than in other times. But the substantial result is that the trade is actually at a greater level, and a greater value than we've seen for the reasons I've said before. The merchandise [inaudible], the trade that occurs is mutually beneficial. And that will always, I think, remain the basis of the trading relationship. But like any business, you cover the risk where you can, there are some that won't be in a position to do that, just because of the nature of the markets they're in. [Inaudible] But there'll be others, take our wine industry for example, I mean, while China is the biggest destination for those exports, it is not the majority destination for those exports. And as a result, they've diversified into many different markets, and that is the case with many other producers as well. So it is good sense to never put all your eggs in one basket. And we've actively achieved [inaudible] supporting that, because as I said, well it's 70 per cent of our trade today is covered by preferential trade arrangements. And that is about tripling from what we inherited when we came to government.