Prime Minister
NEIL MITCHELL: Scott Morrison, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER SCOTT MORRISON: Good morning Neil.
MITCHELL: Thank you for your time. Prime Minister, rightly, you urged us all to follow the COVID safe rules and stay home, social distance, good distancing, good hygiene, etc. That's good. Most people did it, but Victoria's in a dangerous situation not because we didn't do it, but because our state government failed us. That failure is holding back the entire country now. Okay, it is time for recriminations later. We're in the middle of crisis but I think the people of Victoria are angry and worried. Can you now play a bigger role in the decision making in this state?
PRIME MINISTER: We what the Commonwealth can do is what we are doing, and that is over a thousand additional Defence Force Force personnel coming into Victoria, and that's across a range of functions from supporting testing to Victoria Police control points; emergency vehicle crews quarantining compliance; but also importantly, there's 70 ADF personnel going in the planning logistics. And that includes Commodore Hill, who can provide, I think, some much needed leadership direction within the public service effort, particularly around the contact tracing.
MITCHELL: Sorry, did I get that clear -
PRIME MINISTER: The Constitution doesn't let us make the decisions, though Neil, as you know -
MITCHELL: No, I do, but -
PRIME MINISTER: But there's a Victorian problem and it requires the Victorian Government to deal with it and we will give them every help and support we can for the decisions that they need to make, and obviously they will ultimately be accountable.
MITCHELL: Okay, so you say you cannot play a greater role. But it sounds like the Commodore will be. What would he be doing?
PRIME MINISTER: He'll be there working particularly in with the public health team in supporting the tasking of a lot of the tracing calls, as well as the broader logistical support for the effort for the lockdown. The ADF are very good at just managing these very significant logistical tasks, and that is something that is becoming an even greater burden in Victoria as the scale of this has ramped up. And I'm pleased that they're finally there now. And I'm very pleased that the Premier accepted our offer.
MITCHELL: Did you want, you wanted to see you and have seen them in a long time ago didn't you?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that the offer has been standing um, as it is across all states and territories. I mean at one point we actually, um, and sort of it should cross over at about today, I would think that we've had more people up in New South Wales, particularly supporting around the border arrangements. But the ADF there support all the states and territories in. And it's not just the Commonwealth that's supporting Victoria. I mean, every state and territory is doing their bit to help them at the moment. Whether it's tracing resources, testing and all of that, and the premiers and chief ministers, together with myself as a National Cabinet, we've been backing them in to get it fixed.
MITCHELL: But you said the Commodore will provide much leader, leadership, much needed leadership. What do you mean? Is the leadership, the leadership has it been inadequate hasn't it? Let let's face it, we've made mistakes.
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, look within the public service capabilities you've got people who are very good public health officers and they have a job to do. But when when it gets to this scale, it needs a different skill set, and this is what the Defence Forces can bring in. So that's not a criticism, it is just a need that is there. And we're very happy to provide because our Defence Force people have those skills. And I'm hoping that that will provide it with a much needed oomph, particularly in the tracing area. That is where New South Wales has been particularly doing quite well in response to the outbreak they've had. Getting on top of that within a very quick period of time to understand that genomic link back to the Victorian outbreak and they're tracing work has been very strong. But I mean, Victoria's getting every help they can. It is a big national effort.
MITCHELL: Look, I don't doubt that and I think Victorians are very appreciative of that. But obviously, the rest of Australia has to learn from Victoria because I don't want the rest of Australia to go down this path. What have you learnt? What did we do wrong?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, obviously, the quarantine issues are very significant. And that's a reminder to every other state and territory that you can be a pretty much zero community transmission, which is where Victoria was at, and with a breakdown in quarantine, then that can quickly move through your community. And so that's a warning to all other states and territories that particularly those hiding behind borders, that if you let go of your tracing and your social distancing and other disciplines, then the virus can move very quickly through your community. The borders won't protect you from that, a strong health system will protect you from that. Now, having strong quarantine arrangements will protect you from that, and I think that's a timely reminder. I mean, I'll be up in Queensland later today and they're doing well. That's great but if they were to have a failure in their quarantine system like Victoria had, well that they could suffer quite similar results. And so it's important that we stay on our guard. But I'd also say, Neil, that there are lessons that have been learnt from New South Wales, particularly in the aged care, impacts that we had there around the New March facility that's being applied in Melbourne now, in terms of how people are being transferred, the communication with the families. There are a lot of lessons from that New South Wales experience that are being applied to Victoria. And I think this is one of the keys, Neil, because this is such unchartered territory, and I talk to leaders of other countries all the time, we're all dealing with the unknown and we're all learning from each other. And you're saying...
MITCHELL: Of course, and what I'm saying we be doing with Victoria, you say we are doing that. Do you do you agree, some of our health officials have said if we get this wrong here in Victoria, it could cost thousands of lives. Is that your advice?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we have seen that experience overseas.
MITCHELL: In a place like Victoria it could cost thousands of lives?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, one of the things that I think will mitigate against that is that we have put a lot of effort into over the last four months, building up our ICU and respirator capability. So right now, if I could take us back to April, I'm far less concerned today than I was then about the capability of our health systems to cope with a big surge in cases and presentations.
MITCHELL: On what basis? I mean, on April 1st Victoria announced we're going to have 4,500 ICU beds within a few weeks, we got 650.
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah but we've got capability in other states and territories.
MITCHELL: Oh so we can use ICU, can we use ICU beds in other states?
PRIME MINISTER: And respirators mate you put them on a plane you can move to Victoria.
MITCHELL: Yeah but can Victoria move patients to ICU beds in other states?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, what we've discussed at National Cabinet is the importance of sharing our resources and saying, look, we're not at that stage. We're nowhere near at that stage.
MITCHELL: I know but is it possible? It is possible? Our health officials are talking about the possibility of thousands of lives if we don't get on top of this?
PRIME MINISTER: And that, that is not my concern right now, Neil. I think if you take it to an nth degree then as we've seen overseas then, though, there are those potential outcomes. But that is not, I think, the likely scenario right now. What the likely scenario right now is, and what everyone's focussed on, is we haven't seen yet the impacts on the daily case, declarations of the lockdown. I wouldn't be expecting to see that now. So for Victorians listening to you today going, "Oh why aren't we seeing that?". Well, no one would be expecting to see that yet. I heard you just as I was coming on I think you were saying about 48 hours. Whether it's that or a little longer, Neil, it's hard to say.
MITCHELL: Fair enough .
PRIME MINISTER: We would want to see what the impact of, of these of these lockdowns are. The lockdown was regrettably necessary. I wish that hadn't become necessary. I think from New South Wales perspective, it's good that they're not thinking they will have to move to anything like that. And that's welcome. It shows it can get on top of this, and I think there's less doubt in Victoria for everyone else.
MITCHELL: Just finally in that area, have you asked Daniel Andrews what went wrong? Have you asked for an explanation from him?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I've got to say in his dialogue with all the other premiers in the National Cabinet, and myself, he's been very candid about the challenges that they've had, and there's been a lot of...
MITCHELL: So he has explained what went wrong has he? Because he hasn't explained it to us. The people
PRIME MINISTER: Well, look, that's a matter for the Premier...
MITCHELL: Of course.
PRIME MINISTER: And a matter for Victoria.
MITCHELL: But he has explained it to the cabinet has he, what went wrong?
PRIME MINISTER: Not in the level of detail that I suspect the reviews and inquiries that are underway would provide that level of detail. But obviously our system, our Chief Medical Officer, the expert medical panel, the AHPPC, all of them have been focussing very acutely on what's been happening in Victoria and, but the sharing of information, having you know, clear the metrics as we call them. We've found this very important in managing these crises. And a key metric is how quickly you're tracking down cases and the bar is pretty straightforward. Someone is is is contracting Coronavirus and has a positive test, they have to be isolated on the same day. And the ideal is to have -
MITCHELL: Well, that's the other area of Victoria that's been failing, though, isn't it?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I was just going to finish the point.
MITCHELL: I'm sorry.
PRIME MINISTER: But you've got to, you've got to trace them, you've got to get them isolated to one day. And you have to get through all their tracing contacts, preferably as no later than 24 hours after that. Now, if you're if you're working within that, you can get on top of it easily.
MITCHELL: So is Victoria working within that guideline?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I haven't seen specific metrics on that.
MITCHELL: So, we, we don't know? Because we're getting lots of evidence that we're not. I mean the many, many cases of them not.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the cumulative stats which show the number of unexplained cases are, you know, are in the hundreds, and that's what we've got to get on top of and that's why we put that additional resources to support that you mapped out.
MITCHELL: You mentioned New South Wales, you know, hopefully doesn't have to lock down. I really hope that. Now that Victoria will need a special deal, won't we? When you make your economic announcements next week, we will need special attention. We're holding the country back. But we're in big trouble ourselves in terms of the economy.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I think Victoria will disproportionately benefit from the national measures we're putting in place. And the reason for that is is they're they're assessed based on the need and the impact of the virus on people's businesses. And that is clearly going to be greater in Victoria than many other parts of the country. So the way we've designed these supports Neil will mean they will naturally find those places which need the most help. Now, that's true in Victoria, but it's going to be equally true in parts of you know Queensland, which have been devastated by the international tourism collapse and things like that, so that they're designed to fall to those places, which needs our help, and sadly, that will mean that Victoria will be drawing a lot more on federal taxpayers support and income support than otherwise would have been the case.
MITCHELL: The special deal with the unions, does that still stand?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we have an arrangement in place after the end of JobKeeper, but yesterday's employment numbers were very interesting. I know the unemployment went up 7.4 per cent. But interestingly, you know, we've always said that the real rate of unemployment is much higher, and in May was at 13.9 per cent, what we call the effective rate of unemployment. Now, that fell to 11.3 per cent in June. We had 210,000 jobs that came back into the economy in June. Most of those were for young people, which were the most affected. That's a positive sign which shows that when you're moving in the right direction, the economy will come back, the jobs will come back. But the challenge here is to get yourself on top of the crisis -
MITCHELL: Yes.
PRIME MINISTER: And the health and the economic effects are actually highly related. So we're pleased about what's happened there, but for it to continue to be successful, you've got to get on top of it and open up your economies.
MITCHELL: The reports of something of a run on the banks in China, which is a bit scary, does that concern you?
PRIME MINISTER: I haven't seen those reports, Neil. I'm having further updates this morning on a whole raft of issues and that they may present that then. But no, I haven't seen those reports. But I mean, our exports with China, particularly our commodities exports, are actually increasing. And the iron ore prices today is you know, last time I saw it was over 100. So this is actually providing a bit of mitigation to the economic impact at the moment. But, you know, you can't rely on that. But what we are doing is, is providing unprecedented support. And I know a lot of your listeners may all be going, you know, why do we have to spend all this money? Well, the truth of it is we have never been in a situation like this since the Great Depression. Now, the way we've been designing these things is they're temporary. They don't go on for 10 years. They are there, they're here and now to provide a much needed balanced and support for the economy, for people to get through. And it's one of the reasons, one of the most important reasons that the Australian economy has been able to limit the impact that many others most, in fact, developed economies have had hit them out in Australia versus New Zealand. I mean New Zealand has had a much bigger impact on their economy than Australia has.
MITCHELL: Speaking of New Zealand, what about the bubble? Is there still a chance of the trans-Tasman bubble, excluding Victoria?
PRIME MINISTER: Yes, I spoke to Prime Minister Ardern on Friday evening and and she raised that very issue with me. And we're progressing those discussions. Obviously, it's got to be a little bit moderated for what's happening in Victoria, but we discussed it at National Cabinet last Friday, and so we're working with the states and territories about how they can participate in that. So no no, she was keen for us to continue with that.
MITCHELL: Good. Prime Minister, just on something quickly. The United Kingdom has today accused Russia of spying on UK, Canada and the US, particularly stealing COVID research. Are you concerned that Russia's been spying on us as well?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, as I flagged a couple of weeks ago, there's been quite a large amount of cyber activity going on and intrusions into Australia and and attributing it to a country is not something I do lightly. But all I'd simply say is that's why we've put a $1.4 billion into our cyber security over the next decade, $470 million investment to expand our cyber security workforce. So we take it pretty seriously and we know it's a big risk and it's out there. And this stuff does go on and it goes on around the world. But I know people will be anxious about that, and that's why we're bolstering our defences.
MITCHELL: Good.
PRIME MINISTER: But I'm on the cure though, on this, or on the vaccine, that is, those sorts of things as you've just mentioned are occurring. But the broader international effort, I've got to tell you, is not about that. The broader international effort is finding the vaccine, working together and importantly, getting a manufacturing capability package to produce the vaccine and distribute it as far and wide as possible. That's where a lot of the discussions I have with other leaders are.
MITCHELL: Just finally, TikTok, do you trust it?
PRIME MINISTER: We're having a good look at it. And -
MITCHELL: What about your kids, are they on it?
PRIME MINISTER: No. My kids aren't allowed on social media.
MITCHELL: Oh, fair enough.
PRIME MINISTER: I think that's pretty wise.
MITCHELL: But there are suspicions around TikTok though, aren't there? The significance -
PRIME MINISTER: There are. There are. And I've seen all that. And we are, well let me just say this. We are always very mindful of those risks and we are always monitoring them very, very closely. And if we consider there is a need to take further action than we are taking now, then I can tell you we won't be shy about it.
MITCHELL: Thank you for your time. You're going to the footy this weekend?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh no, they're playing up on the Central Coast, so I wont get up there, but I will be watching. I hope they have a better outing last week than we did last week.
MITCHELL: I hope you don't have a cameraman in there while you're cheering, having a beer.
PRIME MINISTER: There wasn’t much to cheer for last week but anyway, look I appreciate that Neil, and look to everyone in Melbourne and Victoria more broadly, just know the country's with you. This is tough, it's really tough, but keep your heads up and if we keep our heads up. We'll get through it.
MITCHELL: Thank you for your time.
PRIME MINISTER: Cheers, Neil.