Prime Minister
RAY HADLEY: Prime minister, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks for having me on the programme.
HADLEY: Thank you for joining me. If we can get to the international matters first. You were recently in the United States and everyone wants to give it to Donald Trump over a range of issues, but he appears to have been rather successful here in getting the Turkish army to back away from the north Syrian border and try and bring peace to the area for five days and then maybe a full time peace. And for that, I guess he's going to be complimented, hasn't he?
PRIME MINISTER: Well yes. And look is an ongoing challenge. There's no doubt about that. And what we're dealing with here, let's be clear is the unilateral aggressive action of Turkey. That's what's happening here. They're the ones who are going cross the border. And I'm pleased that the situation has halted for now. And clearly, the very strong economic reaction by the United States that can have a very significant impact on Turkey has contributed significantly to this outcome. And that's a good thing. That said, it is still an incredibly dangerous place. And it's a place where, you know, the suggestion that Australians should be sent in to get people out of there and things like this is, I think, a suggestion that really doesn't comprehend the real risks that are there. They are they are genuine and they are real and they're under constant assessment by us.
HADLEY: Now, I think generally, I know there are some women and children there who went there of their own volition, the women that is, with husbands, Australians. But there was a fear that if the Kurds had to come to the border to fight, they'd leave these people unguarded. Now, I've checked. That hasn't happened yet. They're still being guarded, guarded by the Kurds, but they just walk away and they disappear into the aether. We wouldn't know whether we're going to Europe or trying to make their way back to Australia, I guess.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that's true. And that is a reasonable fear. As you say, that hasn't occurred as yet. And I think the stabilization of things in the last little while will protect against that somewhat. But obviously there's no guarantees. But I think you've set out the circumstances as to how people have found themselves in this situation pretty clearly. And so, we also have some pretty strict rules that we’ve passed through the parliament, which you would have talked to Peter about regularly, on your program, about the temporary exclusion orders and other things. But we've got to be clear that that doesn't provide any, you know, absolute guarantee in these circumstances either, because it's often very difficult to prove offences in these cases. So, you know, we have to remain absolutely vigilant on this. And we are and we've got to put the national interest and the safety of Australians here in Australia first, when we make these choices, as well as those who some are suggesting should be put in harm's way to extricate, it's a very dangerous place. And I think there's a concerning naiveté about the real situation on the ground there.
HADLEY: Just back to Donald Trump. And I say this sincerely. Most politicians, I deal with at a high level like yourself, the sort of person you are when you were a [inaudible] for the continuous call team for Southern districts is the same sort of bloke you are now. Even though you're in the highest position in the land.
PRIME MINISTER: And a water boy up there in Fiji.
[Laughter]
HADLEY: Exactly. I say that not just about you, but about Anthony Albanese and Shorten and a whole range of other people I've met over time who just appear to me to be the same sort of people when I talk to them officially as I talk to them unofficially, what sort of bloke is Donald Trump like? Like is he the same when you talk to him, you know, as a one on one person, like just two blokes talking together as opposed to-
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah well what you see is what you get, he's a very straight up sort of guy and he's very straight up with you. He's very clear about what the position of the United States is. But he's also very clear, particularly in Australia's case, about how much he genuinely values and appreciates the relationship with Australia. And on the simple basis that we stump up, he respects people who stump up and carry their own weight. And that's what we do, whether it's in defence or elsewhere, we are independently minded. He respects the fact that we're very clear about our own views, that we value the relationship, you know, in the same ways they do. But it's a relationship where each people, each party says, you know, we know with each other to rely on and we know that we both do what we have to as part of the relationship. So that's the basis of this respect. And it's clear and I welcome it that we sort of get on very well at a personal level. But, you know, he's the president and I’m the Prime Minister. It's our job to ensure that this alliance, which has kept Australia safe since 1951, continues to be the most important bedrock to our security both now and in the future.
HADLEY: And you're right, I did speak to Peter Dutton yesterday about a whole range of things, including Medivac. Now, I mean, it was almost as predictable as night following day when this and there's a whole range of architects of this. It's as I wrote it yesterday and today it's Mr Turnbull throwing the toys out of the cot. And it's Kerryn Phelps, it’s the crossbenchers. It's the Labour Party to vote this upon us. And I don't think anyone, even those who fervently supported it, thought we’d get to the stage where three doctors say to a young woman, yes, you've got a problem. Come back to Australia, oh bring your brother with you because he's your support person, oh bring dad that old criminal with you as well, because we want him here. We just need a few more criminals here. I mean, it's just so silly and so predictable that I get angry thinking about those who were wavering about it and voted for it.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, exactly. And we said this would happen and it has been. There are those who have come under this arrangement, which Peter has sought to prevent. And they've come, over 130 people now have come. And there are specific cases where it’s sort to frustrate that. But the laws are as the laws are, and they were done on the basis for the same reason as you and I used to talk about many years ago, where there's this naiveté that you can change the rules and they think it won't have any impact. Well, of course it will. The thing about border protection is you've got to be consistent. You've got to be clear and you've got to hold the line. And the minute you show that you're prepared to crack it, well, that's when you start losing. And Australia can't afford to lose on border protection under our, you know, under our administration. And from my time as minister and certainly Peter's time, who’s done a great job there. And he continues to today. We will hold that line. And so we're now looking to restore what was lost earlier in the year during that period of time. And we're seeking the support of the Senate to do that. Now I don't expect the support of the Labor Party. They're always happy to weaken border protection laws. And Kristina Kennelly is making it an Olympic sport for her. She's even frightening her own people how far she's going to the left.
HADLEY: Well, she's captain, coach, and sole selector when it goes to that, swinging to the left, and the front page of The Australian says it all. I mean, they're leaking like a sieve to Simon Benson, saying someone needs to rein this woman in.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, they do. I mean, it just in this past week, they did three deals with the Greens when it came to issues of national security and our visa laws. And this is pretty serious stuff. And she had that nightmare event the other week in the Senate, which fortunately got recommitted. But she was working against police powers to get people's identities at the airport. I mean, seriously, I mean, she is their lead person on national security for the Labor Party. You know, I think people can make their own judgment on that.
HADLEY: Anyway to domestic issues again. You've copped a hammering out your interview with my colleague Alan Jones. And mainly it's about people, from what I've heard, that you didn't show the sort of empathy that you required were required to show for the drought affected farmers. Now, I know that you've got a limited amount of money to spend in the budget on a whole range of things, infrastructure, but there has been a fair response to what is a dreadful, dreadful time, not just for farmers. I made the point before I started speaking to you. There are rural communities out there and I hear from them because I broadcast to many of them, you know, department stores, general stores, produce stores, the bloke that sells machinery, the bloke that sells cars, the bloke that sells even ride on mowers to people in the area, all doing it tough because no one's got any money. Maybe you could go through your response so far as a government to illustrate to people what you will do and what you have done and what you're going to do.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, there are three parts to it. The first, direct financial assistance to farming and grazing families. The second, relates to supporting those communities that are impacted by the drought. So not farmers and graziers themselves, but they work in rural towns and districts which are heavily dependent on the income that comes from the agricultural sector. And then there's the long term issue, which goes to the issue of water infrastructure, pipelines, dams and things like that. On the first one, the most significant thing we've done is relaxing and freeing up the farm household allowance. Now, last year what we did was we gave them an additional payment on top of the regular payments they were getting. So that was an additional $12,000 dollars per family. And what I announced just yesterday, which has been in the works for a little while. Was a further $13,000 dollar payment per family for those who were at the end of that four year period. So what that means is for families that have been going through the drought over the last four years, they will have been paid $125,000 dollars through the farm household allowance. And that is significantly up on where it has been previously.
HADLEY: Is that a loan or is that-
PRIME MINISTER: No that's a grant. That's money in the pocket. That's put the food on the table. $125,000. And that means that all of those changes we put in place for the farm household allowance, which means that they can access it, even though, and I hope they are earning off farm income as well, because people go in and work as a nurse in the town or they use their skills to work on some projects that may be going on somewhere else. Some have to go into the cities and send money back home. Now, if you're applying for a welfare payment, well, you know, you can't go and earn up to $100,000 dollars and still get this payment. But farmers can. We changed that so they can earn up to $100,000 thousand dollars off the farm and they can have assets over, or around about $5.5 million dollars and still access this payment, which would have been giving them over four years just over that, $125,000 dollars per family. So that is that is how one of the principal ways through which we provide support to directly to the households on the farm and the grazing properties. Now, on top of that, what we did is we provide over $50 million dollars to groups like Vinnies and the Salvos and the Country Women's Association as well, to provide direct grants of up to $3000 dollars. Now, that can go not just to those in the farm households themselves, but to those in the local districts, in communities as well who are doing it tough. So that's just direct support. Cash assistance that is provided and it's encouraged to be spent within the towns themselves so they can keep those towns alive. Now, on top of that, as part of the second wave, what we've done is put into over 120 council areas affected by drought, $1 million dollar payments into each. And that's done everything from get people together for a community event where all the local suppliers are the ones who get the contracts to provide, you know, the party hire or whatever it is. And it's very important to keep rural communities together during times of drought. They get a lot of courage and support from talking to each other and coming together as a community. But on top of that, they're doing things like carting water and they're doing things like building roads and upgrading roads and swimming pools and local works, which keeps the money in the town because we got to try and keep the economies in the towns ticking over. So the local repairer and mechanic and the local grocery store and things like that can stay afloat because they're getting affected as well. So all up. I mean, we've talked about the $7 billion dollar figure. Well, $5 billion of that is the Future Drought Fund, which is dealing with water resilience well into the future. But there's over two billion dollars now of what is direct assistance either in these payments that I've just talked about or things like, for example, if a farmer during this tough time and they've got some money they pull down from their farm management deposit scheme, wants to go and upgrade their turkey nests or some piping that they've got on their property. There's $50 million worth of grants for that as well, to help them get on and do it. So it hasn't been a set-and-forget thing Ray, and I appreciate you give me the opportunity to run through these points. It's not a set-and-forget thing. We keep extending it all the time in response to what's happening on the ground. Now I wish and have prayed that it would rain by now, but it hasn't. And it's unlikely that it will anytime very soon. Let's hope it will in the not too distant future. But we will keep responding. We will keep adding things. Things like fodder subsidies and freight subsidies, I know there's been a lot of discussion about that, and those are things handled by the state governments. That's not done by the federal government. There is a national drought agreement which was confirmed after our drought summit. And so they are things that are handled by the New South Wales and Queensland governments. They both have programs for that. If those programs were to be expanded, well, that's a matter for those governments. I know the National Farmers Federation are not recommending that, but that's for them to determine and for them to address. And that's how it's done. So I don't mind people giving me a whack over you know what they think we should be doing more on our own turf. But they've got to sort of pick the right government to have a crack at if it’s about something we don't do. And I'm not criticising those state governments here, but I am saying clearly that if there is to be more freight and fodder subsidies, then that's something that the state governments have to consider.
HADLEY: Okay. One of the things I read from email questions from listeners in rural parts where would broadcast to, is the often-asked question about breeding stock, which I mean that takes them into the future. You know, it’s stock that has been bred over years and years and years and whether it's dairy cattle, or beef cattle. It's, you know, it's very important to their future. And if they can't feed them nor water them, well they perish. And they’re sold, you know, cheaply just to survive. Is there any way that breeding stock can in some way be indemnified or protected?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, there's a number of ways farmers manage the breeding stock. And the best is, as you saying, they like to hold onto them. They also keep their genetics as well in, you know, in test tubes and things like that. And we saw how important that is up in North Queensland where the floods hit, where they didn't have any time to get their stock to the saleyards to actually try and get some income before the crisis hit there. Their stock was gone within 48 hours. And so that's how they're going to have to replenish their herds up in North Queensland after those floods. Parts of those areas are now going back into the drought. And what we've got through the Regional Investment Corporation is the opportunity for farmers to access very, very low cost loans when they go back into rebuilding their herds, because the drought will break and then there'll be the rebuilding phase. And that's where we're going to be with them again. Now, if there is to be additional fodder and freight subsidies for those breeding herds, then that is that is what the state governments are directly responsible for, our job is to look after the income support to the farming families themselves and I’ve outlined what we're doing there. So on breeding stock, that's a very legitimate issue. And it's one that I that I know that the Farmers’ Federation and others would work closely with the state governments to see what additionally can be done there. But that is a task for them and we work closely with them.
HADLEY: Given that you had no luck, nor did the Treasurer, in relation to the banks and interest rates, what about banks? And they, I think, I hope they’re a bit kinder than they used to be to the farming families who just can't service mortgages. They can't repay it. Can you exert pressure on them, and will you exert pressure on the banks to try and just back away from these poor people?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we have and there are a lot of circumstances where they have done just that. I've got to say that going into this a year ago, and I'd actually already started the process when I was Treasurer, getting all of the banks that are particularly active in these areas and getting them together. And the Treasurer continues to get them together. The thing that the banks have, which often, you know, the Governments’ don’t is they've got a much more detailed understanding of what's happening on every single property, because they have the direct relationship, they know the finances, they know where the hurt is greatest. And we've been working with them to try and understand where the issues are more acute in terms of where we're able to deliver our assistance. Now, a lot of these banks have been able to take some of the decisions they have with the landowners because the property prices have been good and the commodity prices have also been good. So while you can never say there's any real blessings in a drought, those are two advantages the banks have to go into more lenient arrangements on income, interest repayments, and interest holidays and things like this because it's in the bank's interest to try and keep people viable and going forward into the future. So the feedback I've had and I would say that, you know this, it's not universal. Of course, there's going to be cases where people haven't done the right thing, but that hasn't been an issue, I've had some positive feedback from how that's been playing out on the ground. And I would hope that we continue and that's why we keep talking to the banks, because it's in their interest for this all to, you know, all hold together.
HADLEY: Okay. Let me come back to the National Water Infrastructure Development Fund, capital investment. You've got 21 water infrastructure projects on the go right now. I can't blame you. I really can't blame your predecessors. And I'm talking way back to the 1940s. They started talking about Dr. John Bradfield watering the southern part of the continent with water that's accumulated in the northern part. And successive governments have looked at each other and said no it’s too hard we can't do that. I mean, you are now, you know, providing, you know, with your state partners, in New South Wales and Queensland, the two states worst affected at the moment, the opportunity to build some dams and that'll take care of places like Tamworth and into the future, Dubbo and big cities. But what are we doing? You know, because you see all that rain. You just spoke about what happened in North Queensland when the farmers lost all their breeding stock in the flood, that water just went straight into the Gulf or straight out to the ocean and I mean, it’s just, it's just infuriating to think,
PRIME MINISTER: And it silted up the Gulf of Carpentaria too, which creates another problem with the Port…
HADLEY: So let me go back to what, I digress there, what are we doing to try and make sure in 20 years’ time whoever is sitting in this chair and whoever is sitting in your chair aren’t still talking about water in Australia?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, some of the big projects, that you know, we are moving on, particularly up there in the north, where you do get a high level rainfall, is the Rookwood Weir and we're getting a bit done-over on that. I've got to say. I don’t want to make this a partisan thing with the state government. But what is good about the announcement we made with the New South Wales government on the weekend was not only were they prepared to stump up on Dungowan and the other projects, but they were also prepared to clear the way on the regulation and the approval processes to get it going quickly, now John Barilaro says he should be able to get that started next year. That's what he said when we're up there. That's great. You know, we've got the projects like the Rockwood Weir, the Emu Swamp Dam, Big Rock’s Weir, we've got a Hughenden Irrigation Project, which is one we announced, it was about 9 months ago. And we've got some real roadblocks on getting that going. That’s $180 million dollars we're putting into that project and that's all committed. So there is some really big dam projects we're getting going. They will form part of the national water grid, which is connecting up all of these projects, whether its weir projects, dam projects, pipeline projects. I mean, Gladys mentioned when we were out up at Dungowan on the weekend that if they hadn't done the pipeline out to Broken Hill when they were criticised for doing that a number of years ago, they'd be running out of water now. Now, I know many towns right across New South Wales and Queensland are running out of water. And the New South Wales Government has given me an absolute commitment that they have the plans and we've seen them in place to ensure those towns continue to get that water. But let's be honest, when you're living through a drought, then you can't make it like it was before the drought. That's an unrealistic expectation. But the New South Wales Government will be ensuring that those towns will be getting the critical water they need. But it obviously won't be the flows that were there, obviously, before the drought.
HADLEY: Just one final thing, because we’ve got to wrap things up. But Pauline Hanson spoke with my colleague Alan Jones this morning about this inquiry in to the dairy industry. She made the point that it was not supported. The vote was not supported by your government. Now, the dairy industry is obviously a very important industry to this country, and there's something crook about it. I think we could agree on that point. Why wouldn't the government support an inquiry? a Senate inquiry led by Pauline Hanson into what's wrong with the dairy industry? What’s gone wrong with it?
PRIME MINISTER: We've had an ACCC review into this. And what that has produced is the mandatory Dairy Code of Conduct, which we're fast tracking. And that'll come in through legislation over the balance of this year and that'll be standing up at the start of next year. Now, that is an enforceable code that deals with the dairy farmer and the wholesaler. Now, what happens is there's a grocery code which deals with the retailer, you know Coles and Woollies and all of them and the wholesaler that's covered by the retail code. But what happens is the wholesaler will then just pass on that arrangement with Coles and Woollies directly onto the farmers. See there’s someone standing between Coles and Woollies and the farmer. And what we’re dealing with is giving the farmer greater power in that negotiation with the wholesaler. That's what we're bringing in now. The legislation will be in the parliament before we rise this year and that will be enforceable and breaches of the code would be investigated by the cop on the beat, which is the ACCC, which can lead to penalties under that code. So we're putting in laws to strengthen the arm of the dairy farmers in their dealings with the wholesalers. So that's what we're doing. And let's get that in place. I did a very similar thing several years ago when I was Treasurer with the sugar cane farmers and how they were dealing with the mill up in north Queensland. And that's working quite well now. So I've got a bit of form when it comes to intervening in these things. And let's get this one in place. And if we need to do more, well, let's do more.
HADLEY: You see, I think what people are looking for is some sort of guarantee for the dairy farmer. You've just started, most people at home think, oh, well, there's a dairy farmer, there's Coles, there's Woollies. They must talk to each other. There's middlemen there. That, of course, deal with Coles and Woollies on behalf of the dairy farmers, either as a co-operative or individually. And I think what people are saying is the gate price compared to the price you're paying in the supermarket. Someone's getting a big drink, if you'll pardon the pun. And it's not the dairy farmer.
PRIME MINISTER: It's certainly not the dairy farmer that's the case. And other suggestions that have been put around, which is getting in the price regulation area. You know, people want a floor price of $2.50 a litre on milk. Well that’s twice the price of milk today. That's a pretty serious increase in the price for people who are doing it tough all around the country. So, look, I know people want that. Some want that. And I understand why they want it, whether it's the drought, Ray, or whether it's the dairy farmers issues or the water trading issues, I totally get how frustrating and angry it can make people, because I go and talk to people. I go out there, I do go and listen, I do a lot of listening at my job. But, you know, then it's the job to actually work out solutions to it. And we can disagree. Not you and I necessarily, but I can disagree with many people,
HADLEY: Well we have in the past, prime minister.
[Laughter]
PRIME MINISTER: Well yeah! And there's nothing wrong with that. That's fine. I mean, that's you know, we've all got our opinions and we've all got our views. That's why Australia is such a great place.
HADLEY: Can I finish here with you about their gate price, you said $2.50. I think that's what Pauline Hanson's talking about. Could we get to some sort of stage where we say, well, you know, no, it's being sold for $1.10 or $1.05 at the moment, but can we get to some stage and some decision where the farmer, he can't be, you know, selling it for 20 cents…
PRIME MINISTER: Less than what it cost him yeah…
HADLEY: and it's costing him 80 cents a litre. So can we get to the stage where you say, well, look, you blokes are making a quid there as wholesalers, you'll make a quid as retailers, the poor bugger who's giving the milk. We've got to make sure that he or she gets at least a margin on top of what it cost to make?
PRIME MINISTER: So this is what we hope will come from this Dairy Code of Conduct, which is not a voluntary thing. It's an enforceable thing. There's a cop on the beat on it and failures are you know, pursued with penalties for breaches. And it's designed to give the farmer the negotiating and market power, which they clearly don't have right now, which is why they're getting done over. And so let's get that in place and then we'll go from there.
HADLEY: All right. Always good to talk. Thanks very much for your time.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks, Ray.
HADLEY: Thanks. Prime Minister Scott Morrison on the line.