PRESS CONFERENCE GIVEN BY THE PRIAvE MINISTER,
THE RT. HON. R. G. r.' ENZIES, IN MELBOURNE, ON
13~ TH DECEMBER, 1961
PRIME MINISTER: I would just like to start in my own way, if I may.
As you know I have a long established practice of not
making a comment on election results until they are
reasonably clear, and in a normal election they would
have been reasonably clear by now. But it seemed to me
that if I refrained from saying anything too long it
might lead to misinterpretation so, while the results are
not final, perhaps I ought to say something about them.
It would be foolish to say I am not surprised by the
vote. So is Mr. Calwell, and so are you. de are all
surprised. It was reasonable to assume " Chat after 12 years and
with the argument that had gone on about the economic
policy there would be some losses on the part of the
Government that was to be expected, and we all expected
it. But t~ñ e odd thing about this election not so odd,
well I' 11 use the wiord " odd" is that in ? I4estern
Australia, in South Australia, in Tasmania, and in
Victoria, the movement of votes has been no more than you
would expect after a Government has been in office for 12
years I don't know yet what the final result is in
Kal. goorlie or in Stirling, I don't know, But Kalgoorlie
was one of those miracle wins in 1958 in a Labour stronghold
and if Mr. Browne is defeated which he doesn't
concede yet~ and I don't concede It will be by a very
narrow margin; and similarly with Mr. Cash in Stirling.
Also in gestern Australia the prospects Ithink, are
very high that the Government will win three Senate
seats, In WJestern Australia the changes are mer'ely
fractional, if any. dell, they exist of course, but they
are very, very marginal. The same in South Australia,
same in Victoria, On a big swing against the Government
who would have thought we would hold Maribyrnong? Yet
Maribyrnong looks like being held, Seats once regarded
as marginal like Corio zare strongly held and so on.
Tasmania, no change. So that in four States out of six
the movement in the voting has been no more than one
might have sensibly expected
New South . Iales, where the Government's economic
policies. I think were more violently resented than in
other States, well there were a couple of marginal seats.
I admit that I am very concerned about the position of
Mr. Osborne in E~ vans. I don't yet know finally any more
than anybody else what is going to happen in Hume. And
there is Cowper. Yes, let's face up to it, the losses,
or prospective losses, in New South " Jales are greater
than I would have expected.
But the key State has been Queensland. And the
Queensland vote is not to be explained on the basis of
the little lag that comes at the end of a 12 years'
term; nor is it to be explained more than fractionally
by the economic policy. It is not reasonable to assume
that its impact in Queensland would be more violent than
in New South 1ales, or in Victoria. But undoubtedly in
Queensland the electors had come to believe, as I think
quite wrongly, that Queensland had had a poor deal in the
treatment of the States by the Commonwdealth, I don't
want to argue about that I may be arguing about it
quite a lot before I am all that much older,
I think there was a -wide misunderstanding on this
matter, but unquestionably on Polling Day and no doubt
for weeks and weeks and 4ieek-1-s before it, the people of
Queensland -felt that *.'. ueenslarid was a neglected State.
N othing else could explain this phenomonal overturn of
votes, particularly concentrated, in quantitative terms,
on Ministers like Mr. Hulme and Dr, Cameron, each of whom
has done a splendid piece of vork in his own right, but
who were between them held responsible for what was said
to be the neglect of Queensland,
And in the result, well I don't yet know wuhat is
going to happen maybe 50-50, myeavr iemjrt
resolving a f' w doubts, perhaps, rather imp-Crobably, out.
All right, well, if we are out we are out. I'm not
saying we are out I don~ t think we're out but if we
aie then all I can say is the eople of Australia have
given me their confidence for a long time and therefore
I have no 2ers onal grievance, none at all. I don't say
that we ar.. out I would think that the worst was 50-50
or, 9 to be more precise, 61-61. I suppose that by the end
of the week we will know what the results are they have
been rather long drawn out. I feel rather like King
Charles, you know, who apologised for being such an
unconscionable. time a-dying. But the time has gone on
and no doubt we will know by the end of the week.
Whichever way it goes a dead-lock or majority T
am inviting my Ministers and my Members, that is to say
the surviving Members, to meet me in Canberra on Tuesday
of next week. Members have to meet because they have to
deal with such matters as the election of a leader and
deputy leader; and of course Ministers will need to meet
because we will need to concert our ideas on what we do.
And I don't profess to know the ., nswer yet.
Suppose we were even 61-61. All right, well, you
might very properly say that that will inevitably lead in
due course to a dissolution and another election, since
neither side could carry on an effective Government in
the House with 61 all. We put a Speaker into the chair,
we are out-numbered; th-e other side put a Speaker into
the chair and they are out-numbered: we are in exactly
the same case if it's 61-614 But you can't dissolve a
new Parliament, of course, until the Parliament has been
created and that depends on when the writs are returned
and the procedures for calling a new Parliament
together I ': ontt prophesy about that, but no doubt that
would be relatively early in the New Year,
If, on the other hand, we have a majority in the
new House, well, we have a majority, and we go along.
it is very interesting to recall you know that
after the 1954+ election, ihen Dr. Evatt produced. his
promises, and we were not long after2 a spate of
unemployment and the budget, which was called the
" horror budget", you remember, by somebody or other, and
we were a little bit unpopular a " little bit" is a
euphemism I think we did win in 1951+: we had a
majority of seven. Well, there it is, it was a small
majority. In the next election it was seventeen, and in
the next one it was 32. So that one mustn't become too
dogmatic about the size of majorities. The one thing I
am interested in at present is to have one. And, as I
say, I don't yet know.
It's all very well to say that in a campaign. you
must expect casualties of course you do but I do feel
very sad about losing good colleagues. If I might talk
particularly about Ministers I have said something
about Mr. 1-ulme of Supply, and Dr. Cameron of Health, for
he has a wonderful record of achievement for this
country, and I am told today that Mr. Osborne is in grave
danger he has boen doing extraordinarily well at
Repatriation it is a great pity that such men should
be lost to the service of the country. But still we have
elections so that people may say what side they want
and being a democrat I am all for it so I must have my
sorrow for my colleagues in private; and in public
recognise that it is not for me to complain I have won
five elections up to this one so I can hardly accuse the
people of being unkind or ungenerous.
I am not going to repeat the speectes that were made
during the campaign: I think it is tremendously
important that the Government should remain in office;
but I thirKc it is very important that Australia should
have a Government with authority, because, overseas in
particular, there are questions to be thrashed out in
the next six months in the resolution of which the voice
of Australia oughit to be clear and powerful.
If it turns out that we have a majority, all right,
we naturally will go on. A majority is a majority. Anu,
i: you might allow me to say something that is quite
homely, a majority is better than a minority, from the
point of view of a Government. If it turns out that it
is a dead-lock then quite plainly, at the appropriate
time, and I don't profess to know because I haven't
looked at the prescriptions on this matter you know
about the reassembling of Parliament and so on then it
will become very important that next time the people
should produce a Government that is in possession of a
majority. And of course the whimsical part about that
is that it means that if there is another election
somebody will have to change his mind, or his vote,
because if everybody votes in the same way and we are
back again in a deadlock, the only sufferer will be
Australia, because it will have-committed itself to
having no Government. Anyhow, ' Tuesday morning I will
talk to my Mvinisterial colleagues and Tuesday afternoon
to the Members.
QUESTION: Are you suggesting, Sir, that the election would be
perhaps in March?
PRIME MINISTER: Look, I don't know. Anybo. y can work that out as
well as I can. You see a lot of people think that you
can at once proceed to have an election. Of course you
can't. The old Parliament is dissolved and the new
Parliament hasn't been created; and the new Parliament
is created -when the writs are returned and Members are
sworn in. I don't, off-hand, know Akn that is. I am
going to Canberra I will be there tomorrow and I
will have an opportunity of looking into that. But
until the new Parliament is assembled and created,
officially, you know, technically, then there can be no
question of dissolving something that doesn't exist.
I'm not going to offer a view on the dates.
QUESTION: Do you concede, Sir, that a possible majority of
only one, after providing a Speaker, is a -working
majority, that could be carried on indefinitely?
PRIME MINISTER: If we have a majority of two, and one goes into the
chair, then we have a majority of one on the floor of
the ' House. These are interesting speculations. You
know there was a time in the history of the Commonwealth
Parliament when a Government existed for quite a time on
the casting vote of the Speaker not a very satisfactory
state of affairs, I would pray to be delivered from it.
But if it came to me I would accept it being a
realist on the principle that a majority of one is a
majority.
QUESTION: When was that Sir?
PRIME MINISTER: Befere the
1914+ wasn't it?
majority of' one
casting; votes.
QUESTION: First World War you must check it up
( 1913 or 1914+, something like that). A
and the Speaker got worn out making
But of course in this Parliament, which has even
numbers they were odd numbers at that time 759 You
s'e) e, 38 to 37, so they were even-ateven on the floor of
the House the Speaker had to give the casting vote.
But if you have 62 60 then the Speaker, if everybody
votes, does not have to cast a casting vote, the
Government wins by 61
Wouldn't this create extreme difficulty in cases of
the Prime Ministers' Conference?
PRIME MINISTER: I would think so. Of course we have the practice in
the House of Representatives of having pairs and if you
have a majority you can adjourn Parliament for long
enough to permit of an attendance. So that technically,
it's all right, but substantially I agree with you: I
wouldn't think it a very happy state of affairs.
QUESTION: If you had to approach another election, Mr. M~ enzies,
would you take the optimistic view that a greater number
of people had voted at the last Polls to frighten you
rather than to encourage Labour?
PRIME MINISTamj.. You know I am neither a prophet, nor the son of a
prophet. Of course there are factors in this matter. No
doubt there were a lot of people who said, " We'll give
him a fright", " They need a better opposition", " W~ e'll
stir them up". You know, and I know, that there are lots
of people like that, but whether they represent a
determining factor in an election I wouldn't like to say.
I admit their existence. There may be other people '-Ath
quite different views, but I don't think you know, that
a second election at a relatively early late would
necessarily be a Chinese copy of the current one, no.
But I would hope that that election would decide the
problem so that ordinary Australians would know where
they were, and what Government they had. That is the
important thing.
QUESTION: PRIME MINISTE'F Would you care to further define a Chinese copy?
Is that one of those expressions 1 use that is
capable of misquotation? You know you would almost
think I was stirring up the Immigration policy. It is a
phrase with which you, I know, are very familiar. I'm
not at all sure you weren't the first fellow to teach me
years ago. Well let's call it a literal copy.
QUESTION: I remember once making a statement about something
and saying that I thought I detected the fine Italian
hand of Mr. so-and-so in this statement, and there was a
frightful uproar. " He would have me know that he had no
Italian blood whatever..." 1 One must not use these
literary allusions, you must make a note of that.
All right, well, you know the old biblical
instruction, Mr Tebbutt -Itm speaking to you because I
know that you're susceptible to these things " Watch
and pray lest ye enter into temptation". I don't know
what that means in effect, but Douglas Wdilkie he knows
everything heill tell you. Any more macabre
questions? Just one more, Sir, on the Common Market, Does it
affect your immediate consideration, your immediate
pians?
PRIME MINISTER: Well it doesn't affect mine, if you are asking
about mine, because I had not contemplated that I might
have to go there before March, April, or whatever it
might be. But if it's 50O-50 and if, therefore, we are
all getting ready for another election, well, of course,
it would become inmpossible for Mr. McEwen to be there.
I had always thought that he might be there ahead of me,
because he is in very close contact with these matters,
and that I think would be a pity, but still...
What do you think of Mr. Calwell's view that if
the result is 61-61, the Labour Party has a manda~ e
because of the majority of primary votes and therefore
should ask the Liberal Party to supply a Speaker and
form a caretaker Government?
PRIME MINISTER: Well I think that i~ s exactly what I would expect an
Opposition Leader to say but of course it is useless
observation. Parliament makes or unmakes Government.
Why, how amusing it would be if I said, " Well, yes, I'm
very impressed by that", so I resign and I tell the
Governor-General to send for Mr. Calwell and then M~ r.
Calwell elects a Speaker in the new Parliament and I
toss him out on a vote of no confidence. Let's talk
practical sense that is a very unreal remark. I don't
blame Mr. Calwell for making it because he is as
surprised as I am by the results and is therefore,
perhaps, a little excited. Oh, no, that shot is not on.
QUESTION: Sir, the Leader of the Opposition Mr. Calwell, has
also said that this will be the first time that either
the Liberal or Country Party has had to face sustained
pressure and he feels that the Liberal/ Coun~ ry Party is
the kind of Party that crumbles on pressure'
PRIME MINISTEi: I notice he said that, Well, all I can say is that
his Party must be the greatest authority on crumbling in
the history of Australia, and I'll. always bo willing to
take his expert opinion.
QUESTION: Do you think that perhaps his g-ains in these
elections have 6, iven the Labour Party a new sense of
power unity?
PRIME MINISTER: I don't know. Who am I to explain the mind of the
Labour Party? I have been trying for years to
understand it without success. He needn't worry about
my side of the House crumbling.
QUET ION:
QUESTION: If itts 61-61 then, Sir, you will remain in office
and have an election, tht is the general thought in
your mind?
PRIME MINISTER: If itts 61-61 we will meet the Parliament, the
Parliament will make a decision you're guess is as
good as mine as to what this decision will be then I
think you might lay a reasonable shade of odds that we
will be out electioneering in the summer, in the
tropics 2
QUESTION: Will you use television this time?
PRIME MINISTER: WJell I did last time, Whether one uses television
or whether television uses one, I wouldn't like to sayr,
it's a very difficult medium. Well go honB boys, thank
you very much.
Do you know this is the fifteenth election Ive had
personally, do you know that? Fifteen. And I thought I
knew e-: ery noise an election campaign made and could form
a pretty rough idea as to whether the tide was coming in
or out, I confess to you this one was a surprise this
was a dumper, in Queensland. Is that the right
expression? I'm not a surfing character.
QUESTION: Are you being kept in touch continually with the
results or are you just waiting,...?
PRTME MINISTER: Oh, about half a dozen times a day we find out what
the last thing is, But you see there are very curious,..
Now Maribyrnong: I'm told that nothing more will emerge
from Maribyrnong until Friday night, and there you are.
And of course other seats Maranoa. Well, of course
Brimblecombe will hold Maranoa because Maranoa is running
true to the pattern. You see they will all come in.
H-ume, we won't know finally about for some days.
QUESTION:. Would you say it all supports Churchill's thesis
that preferential voting is unsatisfactory?
PRIME MINISTER: No. I believe in preferential voting I do indeed,
I am a gr:.. at sceptic about proportional voting, but
preferential voting for the Lower House is, Ithink,
first class. Quite frankly I've never understood why
they don't have it in Great Britain.
QUESTION: Proportional voting has gone on for the Senate
throughout your 12 years of office?
PRIME MINISTER: Yes, I know. Once the system of voting for the
Senate is established, it is very difficult to change it
because only half go out at a time. And to have half
elected under one system and another half elected under
another system is very difficul-t, and there it is. But
make no mistake under the system ofvoting for the Senate
no Government will have a Senate majority, no Government
that lasts more than a year or two will have a Senate
majority for all its time, You look back on it, From
19 + 9-51 I had a minority in the Senate and we got out of
that on a double dissolution; from 1955-58 I had
in the Senate and there: fore under the Constitutional rule
that where the voting is equal in thie Senate the negative
prevails, I wasn't in command of the Senate in 195' 5-58,
but we got along.
QUESTION: The Senate is not your major worry in any case?
MR. ! vNZIES: No.
QUESTION: Do you feel that the original purpose of the Senate
has been lost?
PRIME MINISTER: Do you want to buy me into a brawl with those two
fellows you know about? No thanks, no. This is not a
time for philosophising about the Senate. It is a time
for being philosophical about your on position.
QUESTION: Mr. Calwell said he thought since democracy is
better served by a clear-cut two-Party system instead of
a multiple-Party system...
PRIME MINISTER: Well was that blow directed at me or at the DLP?
We'll save up all these reflections until after
Christmas.
QUESTION: When are you going back to Canberra Sir?
PRIME MINISTE,: I was going back this afternoon but it turns out
that I cant. I'm going back in the morning.
QUESTION: May I ask one personal question, Sir? What is the
symbolism of that tie? It isn't one of your collection
that Itm familiar with.
PRIME MINISTER: , Idell when I -, 1as in Jestern Australia in this
election he Party chartered a plane from MacRobertson
Mil. ler's to take me up to Geraldton with a number of
your brigade you know to a big meeting there, and they
presented me the Captain of the aircraft presented mewith
a MacRobertson Miller tie. And there it is: it's
red that gives me a bit one way; and it was : iven to
me for nothing that's very satisfactory; and they tell
me that Ansett controls the MacRobertson Miller so that
gives me a bit the other way. I put it on this morning
thinking this was a very happy compromise 61-61.
QUESTION: Has this been your most tiring election, Mr.
Menzies?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, I don't know, I did about the same campaign as
I did last time. I find flying very tiring and when you
do about 12,000 miles you're weary. And of course I
don't like great heat. But still I must keep my mind off
that because if there is another election, and if it's in
the summer, I shall have to carry an air-conditioning set
under my waistcoat.
QUESTION: You said that Mr. Calwell is as surprised as you are
Sir, When did this surprise start? Can you tell us what
day, or the result, that started this surprise?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, on Saturday night at about 10,30 or 11 I
would have put down the losses at 8 or 10. I then
listened ir, until midnight and I then " rumbled it in my
brain" as I lay in my bed and on Sunday morning I sat up
and said, " By jove, thinking it all over, this might be
14 or 15%. And so my surprise you might say, was a subconscious
one between midnight and 8 o'clock on Sunday
morning.
QUESTION: This was before you heard a radio or read the paper
on Sunday?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, yes, You can't read a paper on Sunday in
Melbourne, except the Sydney papers which go to bed the
ones we got when there are about 600 votes9 400 votes,
200 votes,
QUESTION.-Are you finding it possible to relax now, or is it
still a
PRIME MINISTER: I'm a good sleeper. When I put my head on my
pillow I believe in going to sleep. And I have had many
strange and some bitter experiences in my political life,
and I've always put my hoad on the pillow and said,
" That's that". That is why I remain outside thie Lunatic
Asylumr, I suppose, or whatever they call it nowadays.
QUESTION: Could we take a quick shot at this small kite you
obviously deliberately flew a little earlier, Sir, about
Members having to elect a Leader and Deputy Leader? Have
you any new thoughts on any leader or deputy leader there
might be?
PRIME MINISTER: No, no, no. But still it has to be done because
yr-1 must, in whatever you are doing, be able to speak
with authority. I haven't heard of somebody who is
going to oppose me, but still they have a perfect right
to. It's free country.,
QUESUI ON: Sir, are these results likely to change your
thinking the Government's thinking as far as the
economic policy is concerned?
PRIME M-' INISTER: You mustn't ask me anything about policy because
that is the kind of thing thatomy colleagues and I wi] ll
ha-e to consider in the light of the circumstances as
t hey emerge. No, I have nothing to say.
All right, boys, now, you have bashed me into the
ground, that's enougha.