PRESS CONFERENCE GIVEN BY THE PRIME MINISTER THE
RT. HON. R. G. MENZIES ON MONDAY, 28TH AUGUST,
RT. HO 1961, AT 4 P. iM.
QUESTION: Sir, could you tell us, perhaps, for South Australian
interest, how far back South Australian rail
standardisation has been set by the decision to go ahead
in 4estern Australia?
PRIME MINISTER: I don't know. That process is the subject of
litigation in the High Court, commenced by the State of
South Australia so it is sub judice; so perhaps one ought
not to talk about it too much.
The , est Australian rail project, that part of it
that runs from Koolyanobbing down to Southern Cross, then
down to Kwinana, of course, is directly related to the
development of the iron and steel industry in that State
and is related to the Agreement that the iJest Australian
Government made with the an agreement which has
been ratified by them by Act of Parliament in Jostern
Australia. The condition, of course; of the agreement
becoming effective was that the necessary railway
facilities should be provided from Koolyanobbing to
Kwinana a very large enterprise and that couldn't be
done unless the Commonwealth itself, particularly in the
initial stages, provided financial assistance because
Western Australia would have had a very large cash problem
unless it could get large amounts of initial finance from
the Commonwealth. Well that is a very great new industry in the JWest
and I would think, perhaps, as a basic industry, it would
probably lead to an expansion of ancillary industries in
that State. I think it is the biggest single development
in ilestern Australia in my time and we showed ourselves
willing to discuss the terms and conditions on which we
could help on that matter. It was, to a large extent
of course, an industrial venture, one of those things that
will pay for itself very well over a period of time by
increased freights and better railway revenues. It is
estimated it will be quite a profitable line in that
segment. To that degree it has somu points of
resemblance to the Mount Isa-Collinsville railway in
Queensland. But we thought that it had an element of
standardisation and we have allowed for that in the
arrangemonts that we have made with the Govz. rmniont of
' J-stern Australia.
As for the rest of the line from Southern Cross up to
Kalgoorlie, . well it , rould have been quite ridiculous to
have a standard gauge line running to Southern Cross and
then get back on to the old one and have the change of
gauge transferred from Kalgoorlie to Southern Cross. So
we decided, and so did Jestern Australia, that it would be
as well to do the lot when we were at ito Thoportion
from Kalgoorlie to Southern Cross, being essentially a
standardisation project, is being financed on the same
standardisation terms as applied in the case of the
iWodonga to Melbourne line. Under that the State accepts
an ultimate liability of 30% of the cost spread over a
period of 50 years. 4e weighed all this up the
primarily developmental line, from there on the primarily
standardisation section that I have just been referring t,
and we arrived, broadly, at the conclusion that if you
called half the expenditure on the total matter
standardisation, and half development, that would give
broad justice to the position. That was very acceptable
to the Government of ' Western Australia, and hence the
terms that have been announced,
QUESTION: I think that this is a remarkable developmento
lWestern Australia has been considerably handicapped by
being short of secondary industries, to that extent
having an unbalanced economy; it has meant that e. ostern
Australia has had to be a claimant State on a considerable
scale. I don't moan that they will cease to be a claimant
state overnight, or even when the railway is comploted,
but it ought to improve very considerably their overall
financial and economic position when it is in full
operation, because the total expenditure on both the
railway works and rolling stock and the blast furnaces
and so on, the iron and steel end of it, will be about
It is estimated that the railway works will be
completed by the end of 1968.
Has B. H. P. given any timetable for when they start
operations and also for completing their sectioh? Are you
aware of any time limit on that?
PRIME MINISTER: Uell I can't give you that precisely; but I think
that there will be very little, if any, interval between
the completion of the line and the opening up of
Koolyanobbing and the beginning of the transportation of
ore and the completion of the B. H. P.' s first stage, at
any rate. You see there will be three stages: first cf all
they will be able to ship some of the iron ore to the
East. There is a limit to the extent to which they can
ship iron ore without processing, without producing pigiron
at any rate, after the establishment of the blast
furnaces. Although I haven't their precise date in mind
I think it is in the agreement that the Western Australian
Government made. But you can take it that there will be
a steady development of the process, first of all
receiving iron ore, then the blast furnaces coming into
operation and the production of pig-iron, and then,
finally, the production of steel.
QUESTION: Sir, you said you expected this project would pay
for itself in a certain time. Was that expectation based
just on the economics of the Koolyanobbing trade, the
developmental end of it; or on the expectation of higher
traffic because it is part of an eventually standardised
transport...?
PRIME MINISTEI~: No, that is primarily on the Koolyanobbing-Kwinana
traffic. This will run upo. well in the first instance
they estimate it will be about a million tons, then it
will become two million tons by the time the blast
furnaces are operating. They are the estimates made by
the West Australian railways and the Commonwealth
Railways think they are well-founded. They show that the
line will, as from the time the iron ore goes into
transport, be a profitable line.
QUESTION: Mr. Menzies when you said at first they will have to
ship some iron ore to the east, were you thinking of
Whyalla?
PRIME MINISTER: It may be Whyalla, I don't know. They have got good
iron ore suppliers there on the spot. I would have
thought, myself, primarily to Port Kombla and Newcastle.
But I am not speaking for then.
QUESTION: Sir, are you able to give an indication how long the
legal drafting of the agreement and the Bill is likely to
take, and when you think the Bill might be introduced into
Parliament?
PRIME MINISTER: ; e arranged on Saturday that the officers would get
together for the drafting within a week; and that must
be completed and the Agreement executed in time for the
Commonwealth Parliament to ratify it by legislation. That
means that the Bill must be in a position to go into our
House not later, I would have thought, than the end of
September. So there will be no delay. Late October is
the deadline for all of us, including the West Australian
agreement with the B. H. P. and our own with Western
Australia. So there will be no delay on that. I expect
that we will be looking at the legislation by the end of
September, and that it will be in the House immediately
thereafter. It is not anticipated that there will be any
drafting difficulties.
QUESTION: Mr. Whitlam on his recent visit to Queensland
* criticised the difference in terms for the financing of
the Mount Isa railway as compared with those for
Southern Railway work and now in Western Australia.
Could you give us the Government's thoughts on that?
PRIME MINISTER: Jell that is more than the Queensland Government has
ever done I must say! The Mount Isa Railway has got
nothing to do with the standardisation problem. The Mount
Isa Railway scheme began as part of the entire development
of the nines at Mount Isa. It will have incidental
benefits in the north, of course. But when that line was
originally investigated by some railway experts, Ford
Bacon Co. the then Queensland Government got them
out it became quite clear that that line would be most
profitable and, as a matter of fact, would pay for itself
over a period of 20 years.
In the case of Western Australia part of the line is
pure standardisation, and the rest is primarily, but not
entirely, a developmental and industrial developmental
job, rather like Mount Isa. So we blended the two
Stogether. There was no inconsistency, either with
Wodonga-Melbourno, or Mount Isa-Collinsville; it merely
means that we have taken the same principles and tried to
work out, as sensibly as we could, how the two could be
blended for the purposes of this mixed venture in Western
Australia. We had very good discussions about this. We
discussed a lot of details. But in the end result, they
were about the only negotiations I have conducted in which
both sides appear to be content.
QUESTION: Mr. Menzies, in your communication to Sir Thomas
Playford about the dioselisation of the Port Pirie-
Cockburn line, have you given any undertaking about the
standardisation of that?
PRIME MINISTER: No. Well as you know he has got a Writ out on the
standardisation issue and I don't need to go into what is
involved in a Urit. Sir Thomas has chosen to have
litigation. All right, I don't mind. That case will,
no doubt, be determined by the High Court in due course.
But whatever comes or goes on that matter: if he's
right in saying that we have to do the standardisation
right away, or if we are right in saying that this is a
matter for judgment under the circumstances of the case,
whatever happens, it will be, on the view that he put to us
some time ago advantageous to dieselise ( to use that
horrible word) this line -s it stands, because it would
mean some substantial reductions in the cost of haulage.
His original proposal was that these diesels, and the
rolling stock, should all have their bogies so constructed
as to be adjustable to a standard line, if and when the
line was, in fact, standardised. So that it is not part
of standardisation it is ahead of it. But it is
something that we think presents obvious adrantages.
Therefore putting the standardisation argument on one
side that will be determined by other people we have
made an offer to provide the finance for this dieselisaticn
venture on the basis that the State would repay to the
Comronwealth over a period of 50 years, 30% of the
expenditure for this purpose, together with interest, of
course, at the long term bond rate.
W! ll I haven't heard yet of course I couldn't
have from Sir Thomas as to what the view of his
Government is on that matter. But we think it is a pretty
good offer.
QUESTION: Whatever happens in the matter of the Writ, Sir, the
West Australian project will go on?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, there is nothing sub judice about our arrangemnnts
with then. The only thing that could prevent that
one from g-ing ahead is for the Commonwealth Parliament to
toss it , ut.
QUESTION: Has B. H. P. given the Commonwealth any indication that
it will use the new West Australian facilities in an
endeavour to increase Australia's export oarnings?
PRIME MINISTER: We have had long discussions with then. We are
satisfied that they are going to press on with this job
and that they are going to expand their production as a
result. This will certainly either reduce the present
importation of iron and steel, or, in the long run we
believe, will increase our exports. In other woras, from
our point of view, the attraction of this thing was that
it bore on export income, or on the balance of paym-ents
to put it more accurately. That was what attracted us
abJut this matter; that is what makes this a rather
special case and gives it some special urgoncy Because
it would be a great pity if they had to hold up all their
plans for iron and steel in the Jest bh cause there was no
agreement on the subject of the railway. . Je believe that
the B. H. P. have a completely good attitude on this matter.
QUESTION: Have the Commonwealth talks with B. H. P. resulted in
the B. H. P. promising to, or have the B. H. P. decided to
speed up this West Australian development?
PRIME MINISTER: Look you are asking me as if we had made some
specific bargain of some kind. What we have been
eliciting is the general approach, Mr. McEwon had a good
number of discussions with them and I sum that up myself,
by saying that I am sure that they are not going to waste
any time about this matter. It nay very -well be that they
can speed up the operation, particularly with this railway
work being put in hand and being due to be completed by
the end of 1968.
QUESTION: Sir, the Treasurer in his Budget speech made it
clear that the grant for il/ stern Australia and the
Queensland beef roads would be considered at the end of
the year. As your statement yesterday indicated the
amount for Western Australia, does that mean that will be
for the beef road scheme for this year, or will you still
consider further
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, no, this is our arrangonent with Western Australh.
But in Queensland there are discussions going on now on
the official level in order to identify some other road
project about which we could agree. We are already, as
you know, finding œ 650,000 for the Julia Creek-Normanton
road. What the Budget speech ueans is that if wo can
agree and I hope we can quite quickly on another one
which has a high order of priority, we are perfectly
willing to come to their financial aid on that matter. So
that I an anticipating a second road proposal in Queenslind
just as we have had the one that I announced in the case
of Western Australia and the one that we have already
included for the Northern Territory.
QUESTION: This financial year, Sir?
PRIME MINISTER: Yes, this financial year.
QUESTION: Sir, the arrangement with U. A. on beef roads is for
this financial year?
PRIME MINISTER: That's right, that's right.
QUESTION: Mr. Menzies, Mr. Holt is reported as saying he would
be quite happy to fight the election campaign on the
Budget
PRIME MINISTER: I would go better than that: I would be quite happy
to fight it on anything.
QUESTION: Can you say when the election will be held, Sir?
PRIME MINISTER: No, no. Everybody knows except me.
QUESTION: Do you feel, Sir, that the upturn in the omployment
statistics the other day indicate that an upturn in the
economy is already taking place?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, I think that there is. I don't delude myself
into thinking that it is going to be sudden and violent.
But I am sure that there is an upturn. And of course the
speed with which the upturn can affect employment is a
different problmn, because there has been a good deal of
building up of stocks and they have to be cleared out of
the pipelines to a reasonable extent. Then there has been
a little choking along the line of trade credits, from the
retailer to the wholesaler, to the manufacturer, When
they are cleared up there will, I think, be a marked
effect on employment all down the line. But until that
happens I am not looking for anything exciting about this
upturn expressed in terms of employment, I think the
position will go along quietly.
Q1CSTION Sir, has there been any retreat on the Government's
policy, or modification, of its now ,1-year old policy of
full employment?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, none whatever. I think, you know, there is a
good deal of misapprehension about full employment. The
man isn't born who can bring about a state of affairs in
which there are always exactly the same number of jobs as
there are non wanting thcn. He's not born; he doesn't
exist on either side of Parlialent. So what you do is to
get full employment without spilling over if you can
help it, into over-full employment with all the bidding up
and inflationary pressures that are the result. At the
morent we are short of full employment, fractionally. One
of our great aims in our current activities is to break up
that, so that we jet back once more. You have got to
remember that if you look over the period of the last 11
years, as you rightly say, the extent to which full
employment has been maintained is quite remarkable. We
have no apologies to make about it.
QUESTION: Sir, do you see any problem arising at the end of
this year because of the extra number of boys and girls
leaving school?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, in all the calculations that have been put to us
that figure has always been broug. ht forward and is well in
mind. There are a rather higher number of school-loavers
than usual.
QUESTION: Sir, you have announced that the Duke of Edinburgh
will open the Commonwealth Games in Perth next year;
there has been a Buckingham Palace spokesman quoted as
saying that the Duke will come only for three days and
that he is not likely to make any country tours or visit
any other State. I am wondering if you can indicate the
sort of mechanics of negotiating the tour from the point
that there is an acceptance in limitation.
PRIME MINISTE: Yes. W/ hat happens is this, that we either have some
one of our people in London go and discuss with his staff
the details of what is to be done and those haven't
been fixed yet anyway or, if it became necessary we
would send a man from here. In the case of longer tours
we would always send somebody from here so that they
organise what there is. Then if you have a tour you have
people engaged in a sort of broad organising committee
representing each State concerned, and also the Commonwealth.
But if it turned out that the Duke came out and
opened the Games and stayed around there for a while and
then went straight back, the organisation problem is very
much simpler. It might not be necessary to send somebody;
it perhaps could be readily worked out in London. But
whether he will do anything else I don't think that he
will take on any particular public form of engagement, I
don't think so, I don't know of it but whether he will
just go to Western Australia and then go straight back
remains to be seen. This is a matter I take up with him
in correspondence.
QUESTION: Mr. Monzies it has been reported that you have begun
talks with the U. K. Governnont on a new Agroemont covering
Woomera in relation to the proposed European space work.
Could you tell us something about that, or give us some
background?
PRIME MINISTER: Mr. Thorneycroft has been noeotiating with European
countries, as you probably know, about a " Space Club".
They have got to a certain point. We have been told what
that point is; we have been asked for our cor. rlents; and
we have made some. They are going to have a conference
about this matter on the official lovel I think it is in
London fairly shortly. JWe will be represented at that,
not necessarily to conclude an agroo.: ent because there are
a lot of questions that we have on it which have yet to be
QUESTION: answered. You can take it that Australia is at present
not co-iitted to any proposal. But as the proposal would
involve the use of the ' oomnera facilities, we have, of
curse, a very large interest in it. But there is no
conclusion. But it will involve a now agreoment, a separate
agreement as distinct from the Weapons Research
PRIME MINISTER: It doesn't necessarily involve any change in our
Weapons Agreement because, of course, there is a great
volume of that still going on, irrespective of Blue
Streak. There is more nuney being spent now than there
was five years ago I mean on the general weapons
development. But if there were a Space Club established
and Australia was in it, in virtue of the Rocket Range,
and terms had been arrived at, which they haven't yet,
then there would presumably be a multi-lateral agreement
about that in which we would be a party, and Great Britain
and France, and Italy, whatever it may be. But that would
be in parallel with the i/ oapons Establishment Agreement.
QUESTION: Has the Governnent any plans for enlarging the
Tariff Board further to expedite its hearings, Sir?
PRIME MINISTER: No, no plans, no plans. There are always
discussions, you know, going on about that because it is
very important to expedite its hearings without lowering
the quality of the work done. But that is one of those
things that we occasionally have informal discussions
about, but there are no plans.
QUESTION: Sir, have you hpd any reaction from abroad yet to the
scheme mentioned by Mr. McEwen for an orderly marketing
of world primary commodities?
PRIME MINISTER: I have had none, no.
QUESTION: Sir, talking about Mr. McEwen, what is the latest on
the threat of the Liberals to contest his seat?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I seem to be the only fellow who hasn't made a
statement on this so far. I have the greatest confidence
in the world that Mr. McEwen will be back here after the
elections.
QUESTION: Are you going to send him away, before the electin,
on the Common Market, Sir?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I hope not, but who knows? I mean, we don't
know what is going to develop in the course of these
Commonwealth discussions that are going to occur in
London. He wouldn't want to go away at this stage; nor
would I want him to. But it may be that he will have to
go. But I don't know.
QUESTION: Do y. u think a Liberal will be contesting the seat
against him Sir?
PRIME MINISTER: I don't. But I don't run the Liberal Party you know.
You are just asking me now, as an innocent bystander.
Well, as an innocent bystander, I don't think that he will
be.
QUESTION: How innocent were your ruearks to certain people,
then, about the Liberals contosting the seat, Sir?
PRIME MINISTER: I don't know. You ought to ask then that. I don't
run the organis _ tion of ny Party. The rolations between
ne and the Liberal Party Organisation soon to be somewhat
diffrent from the rolati-ns between my opponents and
their Party organisation.
QUESTION: Sir, your Party has endorsed the establishment of a
Northern Australian Developnent Commrission, but your
National Developient Minister is opposed to it. Could we
have your personal views on it?
PRIME MINISTER: No. I don't know what you mean when you say " my
Party" has endorsed it. Tell no about this; I always
like to learn a bit of news.
QUESTION: The Federal Council of the Liberal Party, Sir, at the
Conference just prior to the last election, endorsed a
' Jest Australian scheme that it should be treated as a
natter of national emergency.
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, no, I've no comment on that. I don't think we
are doing too badly by the north at the noment.
QUESTION: Has the proposal cone up, or been discussed in
Cabinet Sir?
PRIME MINISTER: This thing he is talking about?
PRESSMAN: Yes: the Northorn Australian Dc relopment Comrission.
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, I daresay somebody has mentioned it at one tine
or another. We haven't set one up. You can draw your own
inferences from that.
QUESTION: Has any sort of pattern developed, so far, for
Commonwealth aid to the States for special development
projects, or do you favour dealing with each matter as it
comes up?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it is a combination of the two things. The
pattern, broadly, has been, as we have indicated in
statements that have been made, that we are interested in
proposals which lead to a material improvement in exports.
It is for that reason that we were interested in the Mount
Isa line, because that speaks big in terms of export
earnings; it is for that reason that we have been taking
a hand in these beef cattle roads because they will
increase the outturn, or the turnout, I don't know what
the word is, of cattle, primarily for export; it is for
that reason that we have been in touch with the New South
Wales Government about coal ports, improved coal port
facilities, because there is a prospective growing market
for coal. But that has been the thing that attracts our
minds in the first place. Then we deal with then ad hoc.
Je think, as a matter of fact, we probably do better
by discussing concrete proposals individually with the
State Governnents than by leaving all this to some nonparliarentary
authority. In the long run these things
usually end up by us having to find some money. You rather
like to be the master of your own fate on those things.
QUESTION: Mr. Monzies, Sir Garfield Barwick said the employment
situation got a lot worse than the Government ever
intended. Was he speaking for the Government when he said
that?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, I read about that, something about that in the
paper. I didn't hear him speak. I have road some rather
amusing comments on it. We have made our position quite
clear on those things.
QUESTION: Sir, has the Government any knowledge of President
Kennedy having indicated to the Indonesians, a change of
Anerican policy over Ieost New Guinea, or a willingness to
modify the American attitude to Indonesia's claims?
PRIME MINISTER: Well we have heard suggestions made and all that kind
of thing. But I wouldn't tell you that they had nade any
change in their policy. I don't know. So far as I can
make out there have been some rather exaggerated rumours
in that field. That problem is always being discussed;
we are always having exchanges with other Governments
about it, including the Administration of the United
States. But I have no reason to suppose that the
Americans h.: ve developed some new approach on this matter:
they may have thought of a few. But I imagine you want to
know whether they have propounded something.
SQUESTION: ir. Macmillan is reported to have said on the weekend
that no one would fight over Berlin. Do you agree
with him on that?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, for heaven's sake dn't ask me about a statement
of his which is in the cables. My experience of Mr.
Macmillan is that he is quite capable of expressing his
own views. And when I have tabled some papers about Berlin
and made a statement I will express mine. Wait and see.
QUESTION: Your other week-end statement about the Univrsities
Committee, Sir, can you enlighten us any more about these
University-type institutions which you suggested earlier
might emer: e from this? What sort of institutions did..
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, now, look, this is the very thing that they are
going to exaimine. It is not for me to say bec-use I lack
the competence to say. But it is quite clear that we have
reached a stage here, just as they have in England, where
they have appointed a similar coramittee, where you have to
* think very hard about whether you . o on just increasing
the number of Universities on the stock pattern; or
whether there ought to be a greator variety of instruments
of tertiary education some simpler than others; some
may be less costly than others. But, of course, the
financial probler. for the Comr. onwealth, and even more for
the States, is growing and can become formidable. And,
just as in 1ngland, they said, " Well we had better have a
look at this thing and see whether the answer to it is to
develop more technological institutions", if you want
technology developed, or do this or that. That is why we
have got a pretty broad-based committee that can have a
look at it.
But it will take it a long time because it is a
tremendously complex problem. It doesn't need to make a
report overnight because the present triennium lasts for
two ori-years, but they need to give us their ideas in a
pretty precise form by 1963 either us or our successors
because it is a problem which you wouldn't allow to drift
into a third triennium. It would perhaps affect the way
in which you were working out the money to be found and the
way it is to be spent. But it is very important, always
remembering that we have gone along for a long time now on
what I call Universities on the 19th century model. The
whole thing needs re-looking at.
QUESTION: Sir, Mr. Holt in the 3ud: et speech, I think
mentioned that you woro working towards agreoment, or
hoped to roach agreement soon, or some such thing., with
the Now South Wales Government on the coal ports project.
PRIME MINISTER: That is what I was just mentioning. Didn't you hear
me mention that just now? It has great possibilities I
think.
QUESTION: A recent report, Sir, said that the United States
would oppose any special arrangements being made about the
Cormmonwealth if the U. K. should enter the Common Market
because of their concern over the ability of the Latin-
American countries to export. When you were in Washington
recently, Sir, did you have any discussions on the Common
Market question with Mr. Kennedy?
PRIME MINISTE'R: No. When I was in Washington last the state of the
Common Market discussion was that the last statement by
Great Britain was that she wasn't proposing to enter the
Common Market unless agriculture would be kept out. It
is only in the last few weeks that that position has been
modified.