ALAN JONES:
Prime Minister, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
‘Morning, Alan, and look, there are a lot of problems out there but we are a great country and a great people and every day when I come to work I think I am incredibly privileged to have this job and I will spend every fibre of my being to do the best possible job I can because that’s what the Australian people elected me to do and that’s the determination that I have.
ALAN JONES:
Well I know that because I’ve known you for 100 years. A lot of people out there don’t know you and they blame you for a lot of these things. They say you’re talking about the wrong things. You listen and you are a listener, but there’s a simple plea from a woman. She said, we have to have something so that stock can be sent to areas where there’s feed before they die. She said to me, Alan, the Government can find huge amounts of money to send to people overseas who are in crisis, but they don’t help us. Maybe, she said, if more farmers shot themselves in public it would get some help from media and the Government. Now I wanted to talk to her this morning, her son’s in an accident and she can’t speak. I mean forget $2,000 for every man and every woman in the family and $500 for the kids; can’t we mobilise something to give these people hope?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Alan, look, it’s a very, very good question and Barry O’Sullivan, a Senator for Queensland, stood up in the Party Room last week and he said if there’s a flood, if there’s a fire, if there’s a storm, the emergency services come and they fix the problem as best they can, but with a drought it just gets worse and worse over months and years and eventually no one comes because there’s not much left. It was a very poignant passionate plea and after that, I sat down with the most affected local member, Bruce Scott, the Member for Maranoa in Western Queensland and I said, look, what can we do, and he and I agreed that we would work on some local projects that would be important signs of faith by our country in these parts of Australia and important demonstrations of the commitment that the rest of Australia has to these parts of our country. But, there is no easy answer, Alan. There is no easy answer…
ALAN JONES:
But see, PM, with respect, when we had those terrible floods and Prime Minister Gillard was the prime minister I remember we were all asked to play a flood tax that was a component. Now, we don’t want extra taxes, but nonetheless, Julia Gillard for all her weaknesses got out there and people like me and the Daily Telegraph and the Melbourne Age, the Courier Mail said, look, we’ve got to help these people. If tomorrow you said we’d have a drought tax – and we hate taxes, but a drought tax – and this is going to go exclusively to look after this dreadful problem where people are shooting themselves, animals are dead and you’re saying I’ll get John Howard and Paul Keating to administer the funds and we’ll see if we can provide food for these people, transport or whatever we can do. I believe Australians would say, because it’s the kind of people we are, God, I hate taxes, but gee, isn’t this one of the better taxes we’ve ever been asked to pay?
PRIME MINISTER:
That’s a very fair point, Alan, and as I said, I am talking to the local members about what they think the best way forward is. I accept that this is a terrible, terrible tragedy for the people of Longreach and that part of Western Queensland, for the people of Walgett and that part of Western New South Wales. It is a long, long time…
ALAN JONES:
Oh, you want to go up to Winton, PM, you want to go to Queensland. Winton, I’ve never seen anything like it. I went there. These are awful. I mean, basically all of Queensland is drought declared. I don’t know how these people survive. They wake up every morning to this.
PRIME MINISTER:
And on the one hand we’ve got cyclones and storms on the coast and we’ve got terrible droughts…
ALAN JONES:
But on the other hand, PM, we’re providing $100 billion between now and 2020 for a Renewable Energy Target to subsidise wind turbines and solar panels. $100 billion to do what? To disfigure the environment and jack up the price of electricity…
PRIME MINISTER:
And this is why, Alan, we’re working with the Labor Party and the crossbench to try to reign in this Renewable Energy Target because, you’re right, it is pushing up the price of power. It has been pushing up the price of power. It will continue to push up the price of power and it will result in an overbuild – a massive overbuild – of wind turbines unless something is done about it and that’s what we’re working with the crossbench and the Labor Party to try to address now.
ALAN JONES:
So, you’re a sportsman. You’re an athlete, you played rugby, you’re a boxer, you go out there and ride bikes and so on. Do you really know, as the Prime Minister of this country, the number one man, what sport are saying today about this disgraceful ASADA, the thug McDevitt – a former cop who’s in charge – who sounded like a thug on TV, still going after Essendon. Let me tell you this, PM, this is just one of, I suppose, 10 stories that come to me because I was formerly in charge of the Sports Commission, the coaches of Australia come to me hoping that I can do something. There’s a young sportsman – I won’t say which sport – he had a urine sample taken. When? 2013. He was contacted by these thugs in December 2014 – more than a year later. They said he had a high level of ‘unknown substance’. I had this man here in my office with his dad. The young man was crying. He was interviewed and suspended immediately. 2013 – he’s heard nothing from them. They can’t tell him what substance he may have taken to give him a high level reading which has shown in his A Sample 17 months ago. The young bloke could be your son. He just sits there looking at you. You know, his parents now rang me yesterday, “Alan, I’m very concerned. He won’t speak to us. He’s socially withdrawn, he goes nowhere. What happens next?” Another one – a 30 year old. He was told he had something in his urine and they said “What?” and they said, “We can’t tell you, but you are suspended.”
Now, here is this bloke – McDevitt – after everything that’s been found against all of this, McDevitt who says yesterday after the event, quote, “Hundreds, maybe thousands, of injections were given to Essendon players. Essendon players were used as pin cushions and we don’t know what was injected into them”. He said that. He doesn’t know what was injected into them, but he’ll condemn them for the length and breadth of this country. Don’t you think there should be a federal government inquiry – a judicial inquiry – into ASADA, the AFL, the NRL, the Gillard Government, everybody who’s brought sport to this infamous position?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I certainly do remember that infamous press conference, Alan, where two Labor government ministers said this was a black day for Australian sport and it certainly in retrospect looks to have been a black day for Australian government, because ministers appear to have been using sport as a distraction from their difficulties. And, sure, sport has got to be clean, sport has got to be fair, there’s no way any of these young players should be misled or mistreated, but I think, frankly, we have made mountains out of molehills it seems here and I think the sooner this matter can be resolved and put behind us the better.
ALAN JONES:
Well, the sooner we find the truth. This man – you appointed this McDevitt to this job – a former Federal Policeman. You know what the federal policemen did to Mr Rush from Townsville who went to the Federal Police and said, “I’m really worried about my son. I think he’s on drugs, I think he might be going to Bali. Can you intervene and stop him from going to Bali?” They intervened alright. They let him go. They told the Indonesian officials and as a result of the Federal Police, this boy will rot in jail in Indonesia. Now, you’ve got this Gil McLachlan who inherited the mess, but there is evidence to Mr Justice Middleton given by this Aurora Andruska and she said this is what McLachaln told her, quote, “Take points off Essendon. We need all the detail to get through that. Problematic, yes, even if not the full report, get the outcome we need. Take bits out that might compromise what we need.” Prime Minister, is that corrupt or what? This is what’s been done to these kids. I mean, Sussan Ley’s response yesterday was absolutely appalling. She’s your brand new Sports Minister. Whose side is she on – these thugs or the side of innocent persecuted athletes?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we’ve got to be on the side of justice and fair play…
ALAN JONES:
Correct.
PRIME MINISTER:
… that’s what we’ve got to be on the side of…
ALAN JONES:
Correct.
PRIME MINISTER:
… and, I guess, the challenge in what has now become an unbelievably contentious area is to try to be calm, to be measured, to have a sense of perspective about all of this and, plainly…
ALAN JONES:
These young people are going to bed every night and waking up every day with this over their heads.
PRIME MINISTER:
And I think there is little doubt that, plainly, some things were done that shouldn’t have been done. Some things were taken too far, but the important thing now is to make sure that it’s not happening and let people get on and play their sport. That’s the important thing.
ALAN JONES:
Correct. I mean, you played at Sydney University. You know that you train your guts out at night, you weren’t married and you go home and you think oh I can’t eat now and you go to bed and the coaches say, listen, you’ve got to put something in the system, and you’d give them a tablet or whatever. I’ve had this terrible voice, this terrible throat for a week and the doctor said to me yesterday, listen, I’ll inject you with a protein.Well, I had the injection yesterday. This bloke. This McDevitt. Essendon players were pin cushions. We don’t know what they were being injected with. How do we know it was illegal? There’s no proof that anything illegal has been done. Anyway, look, the sportspeople of Australia are relying on you for this justice. Sussan Ley has got to do better.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Alan, look, this was another disaster – yet another disaster – that we inherited from the former government…
ALAN JONES:
Correct. Yep, you did. It is, it is.
PRIME MINISTER:
… and look, I know Sussan well…
ALAN JONES:
So do I.
PRIME MINISTER:
… she’s calm, she’s balanced, she’s reasonable. She will listen carefully to everyone and is far as is humanly possible she will try to ensure that the right thing happens.
ALAN JONES:
Ok. Now, I want some good news out of you. It’s Easter, right. You’re going to tell all my people I hope, Prime Minister, that we will not be taxing bank deposits. Those with money in the bank who have deposits are heroes. They’ve managed to save something. Now, they’re not dependent on welfare which is fantastic. They’re our champions. Now, I know you’ve got a problem with money – I know you’ve got a problem with dough – but don’t you leave those with bank deposits alone.
PRIME MINISTER:
The natural inclination of this Government is to have less tax, not more tax, and our fundamental guiding principle is that taxes should be lower, simpler and fairer. The tax in question was a tax that the former Labor government put in place and they wanted it to start on 1st July next year. We asked the Murray Review to have a look at this amongst many other things and we’ll be responding to the Murray Review in due course.
ALAN JONES:
Right. Now look, can I throw a proposal to you that I put to that very able Assistant Treasurer of yours – very bright fellow – Frydenberg.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
ALAN JONES:
Now, everyone, I think, who’s fair-minded understands that you can’t go on the way we are. How do we get people off welfare? The aged pension is something you’re looking at, too many people get it blah blah blah. Now, people actually enjoy work – you just said you love your job, you wake up every morning, we enjoy work. Why wouldn’t we say to use the tax system as an incentive, why wouldn’t we say, look, we would like people to continue to work after the age of 65, but they don’t like having the taxman put their hand in their pocket, so, you’ll pay tax and that means you won’t be on the pension, you won’t be a drain to welfare, but over 65 we won’t tax anyone at higher than 15 cents in the dollar? Whether you’re on $50,000 or $500,000 you keep working, 15 cents will be the maximum and we get all these able-bodied people out there in the workforce, that will reduce the need for welfare, reduce the call on the pension and, hello, we’re all happy.
PRIME MINISTER:
I certainly think that there are a lot of older people who would like to work and I think it’s very important, Alan, that we try to reduce barriers to participation in the workforce and, you know, my dad worked until he was 79 and he loved every second of his working life and…
ALAN JONES:
And he’d be there on Saturday trying to spot a winner!
PRIME MINISTER:
That’s right. He needed the money, that’s right, so he could go to Randwick on the weekend.
ALAN JONES:
That’s right! But see, you used this phrase in Opposition. You said you wanted to reward the lifters, not the leaners. These are the lifters – the people with deposits. You’re not going to touch them. They are the lifters.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, look, under the Howard Government we had a scheme whereby if you worked past 65 you could get a benefit through the pension system when you finally did retire and it’s certainly worth looking at, Alan, because in the end, we do need to have a more productive workforce, with higher participation rates and there are any number of older people…
ALAN JONES:
And that Intergenerational Report says we’re going to live ‘til we’re 90.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yep. There are any number of older people with an enormous contribution to make – an economic contribution to make, not just a social contribution – and they do need our support and encouragement, I absolutely accept that, Alan.
ALAN JONES:
See, the great thing about international experience – and you’ve been everywhere – is you learn. Now, you went to the funeral of Lee Kuan Yew. Now, this bloke inherited a swamp. To the benefit of my listeners, Singapore is 710 square kilometres – that’s half the size of Adelaide – it’s got 5.4 million people. Their Gross National Income is $70,000 per capita. There’s only two per cent unemployment. It’s built on a swamp – there’s few resources, now one of the world’s richest economies per capita. Eighty per cent of the poorer families buy their own homes, the world’s best education system, corporate tax 17 per cent, top personal tax 20 per cent, GST 15 per cent. Now, you’ve got a retinue of people in your Government who are smart – there’s no doubt about that. I know you said, “We won’t touch the GST” and so on. Why couldn’t you go to the electorate and say, “Look, I know I made statements before the election about the GST, but let me say this to you and let’s talk about it because I’m the Prime Minister, I can’t levy anymore personal tax on you because it already accounts for 47 per cent of the total tax and 57.5 per cent of personal tax is collected from only 17 per cent of tax payers. I can’t tackle the mining industry; they already paid $117 billion from 2006. I can’t tackle companies; the top one per cent of companies pay 62 per cent of all company tax, but I tell you what, if we put the GST from 10 to 15 like they have in New Zealand and with the third lowest GST in the world, then suddenly we’d go from $56 billion to $80 billion. If we got rid of the exemptions we’d have another $12 billion. So there we are, that’s $36 billion.” Now, I hear you’re saying low income people what do we do, Prime Minister? “I’ll look after them, I’ll look after the low income people, but here we have an immediate way in which we can solve our problem.” Isn’t that worth discussing and sharing and debating now – urgently – when you’re talking about tax?
PRIME MINISTER:
You’re right, Alan, we do need to have a proper national discussion about tax, but in the end, what we need to do is to get spending under better control because at the moment, all people want to do is put up tax. Now, I’d rather get taxes down than put taxes up, but we can’t responsibly put taxes down unless we can get spending under control. What the Intergenerational Report showed was all sorts of things and showed that under the policies that this Government has already put in place through this Parliament, Labor’s debt and deficit problem is halved going forward, but it also suggested that even with the changes that we’ve already made we were still heading for government spending at about 31 per cent of GDP. Now, the highest it’s ever been thus far is 27 per cent under the Hawke Government. It came significantly down under the Howard Government.
So, we’ve got a spending problem in this country, Alan. That’s the problem . It’s not a taxing problem, it’s a spending problem. So, fundamentally, we’ve got to get spending under control. Now, I’m happy to consider all sorts of things, but when it comes to the GST we can’t change the GST without the agreement of all the states and territories and we couldn’t change the GST without a consensus in the Parliament. So, really, it’s up to Mr Shorten to tell us what he wants to do, because he is the man who controls the GST effectively. Now, my challenge is to get spending down – that’s my challenge – because under Labor, spending was out of control and we’ve got to get it down.
ALAN JONES:
Right, but then just to repeat the question I asked you – and I always think the best way to argue these things is argue about you and me – so you’re on the top tax bracket so you and I have got the opportunity to stick $30,000 bucks out of our salary into super. If we paid it as income we’d be on 45 cents plus the Medicare levy. If we stick it into super, Tony Abbott and Alan Jones only pay 15 cents in the dollar. These concessions are costing us – you’re talking about spending, there’s a spend – $30-odd billion a year. Does Tony Abbott and Alan Jones need a 30 per cent concession to encourage them to save?
PRIME MINISTER:
What we do need is a system which is fair and a system which does encourage people to save. Now, there were a lot of changes to superannuation under the former government. We had six years of constant upheaval in superannuation under the former government. What I said before the last election was that there would be no adverse changes to superannuation in this term of Parliament, because we needed a period of stability. Now, I don’t say that we can’t have a discussion about this – I’m happy to do that…
ALAN JONES:
Well that’s what we need.
PRIME MINISTER:
… but let’s have a proper discussion. Let’s reflect on these things maturely before we rush in to doing things and what I’m going to do, Alan, is honour the commitment to have no adverse changes to superannuation in this term of Parliament. And in the meantime, let’s debate these subjects and maybe going forward we can come up with a better system.
ALAN JONES:
See, what they don’t understand out there is that Gillard and Rudd trashed this economy – no doubt about it. They walk away into the sunset with $180,000 a year for life. Should they be getting that now? The average people you’re broadcasting to can’t get their super. There’s a change, why should they be getting it? They trashed the economy. Should they be getting it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Alan, this is the infamous parliamentary pension which was changed by John Howard back in 2004 and some people like Gillard, Rudd and, indeed, myself when I retire from the Parliament are on the old system which was a defined benefits system and it was a pretty generous one, no doubt about that, and people who came in after 2004 are on a standard scheme whereby you get money put into a superannuation fund by your employer and it grows over the years depending upon how successful your managers are. Now, the problem that you allude to is a problem that will eventually go because the people who are on the old scheme will eventually all be gone.
ALAN JONES:
Not fast enough in my money. Why do people be able to get their hands on their super anyway at 55 when you can’t get the pension till your 65?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, this is a fair point but, Alan, superannuation is your money. Yes it is money that is deposited under favourable conditions but it is essentially your money, it is our money, it not the Government’s money and that is why there has always been different conditions on superannuation then on the pension.
ALAN JONES:
Yeah, I understand. Just one final thing, there are people listening to you this morning – Mums and Dads get up and work hard their kids will never go to university – they are quite happy by the way they are doing other jobs. They will never get to university but they are paying tax and they will find that the total value of student debt for those who do go to university will increase to $63.6 billion over the next four years; $63.6 – $11 billion unrecoverable. Can you imagine how they feel and what they think when they say, “what the hell are we going to work for?”
PRIME MINISTER:
And this is one of the reasons why we brought forward these university reforms…
ALAN JONES:
You did. You did.
PRIME MINISTER:
…because if you go to university you have a permanent advantage and that is good. It ultimately helps all of us because it improves our society. Nevertheless the people who don’t go to university are subsiding the costs of those who do and the people who never went to university are subsidising the people who do go to university. We thought when we brought down those changes that there should be a slight adjustment to that level of subsidy. Now, as is well known, we have had difficulties in the Parliament with this one and we certainly want to keep going with our university reforms precisely because in the end these are fair reforms.
ALAN JONES:
Ok, thank you for your time. I am just wondering, finally, we return to where we began the drought issue I hope you will give that priority today and secondly if the Minister Sussan Ley could answer the letters that have been written to her some time ago about these victims of ASADA – young Australians who if they can’t rely on Government who can they rely on? That correspondence is unacknowledged and unanswered.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Alan it should be and it will be.
ALAN JONES:
Thank you. Thanks for your time and Happy Easter to you and the family.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thanks so much, Alan.
[ends]