HUTCHISON: Mr Rudd, good morning to you.
PM: Good morning Geoff, thanks for having me on your program.
HUTCHISON: On Lateline last night, Andrew Forrest said the consultation process over the super profits tax is a charade. And you talk of useful discussions behind closed doors, but where is the evidence of something really constructive here?
PM: Well, discussions are occurring with the mining industry, Geoff, at several levels. One is of course through the panel run by the Treasury in Canberra where we have I think probably around 100 mining companies, we speak directly with them about their individual circumstances. And on top of that, with some of the major mining companies who have also had very direct and fruitful consultations as well. That's ongoing, and as you mentioned before, Twiggy Forrest's comments, I'll be catching up with Twiggy again this morning, as I've spoken to him in the past as well.
HUTCHISON: Are you going to come out of that meeting smiling? Will both of you be shaking hands and saying 'there's the resolution we wanted'?
PM: Geoff, these are always tough negotiations. They're hard. And what's at stake here is a pretty important set of tax reforms for the future of WA and for the country at large. So, as I've said before, and I think you were at the Perth Press Club yesterday, when I spoke there. It's important that we spend the time that is necessary to work through the details, the implementation, transition arrangements, and take the time that is necessary. And I'd regard my discussion with Twiggy this morning as part of that process.
HUTCHISON: Mr Rudd, you gave the impression at that press club lunch- in the face of some audience cynicism, of course- that you are open to consultation. That things, these are my words not yours, that things appear to be moving swimmingly. Now, my question to you is why have we not heard one miner come out and say the same thing?
PM: They were your words Geoff, I'm glad you note that, and I certainly did not say that.
HUTCHISON: No, but you were very positive, and very effusive, and very encouraging. But everyone in the audience was, was thinking, well, where's the one mining executive to come out and say 'yes, it actually is happening this way'?
PM: Well, you've characterised my remarks in your own way. What I did say yesterday was that these consultations are continuing, they are substantive, and they are with a whole bunch of companies, and not all of them here in the west of course, of course there are others in various other parts of the country, a number of international firms as well. But the whole business of a consultation Geoff is not to go through the media and go to the detail of each of those negotiations that are underway, it's not the way in which you deal with these things. Step back from it all for a bit, I mean, these are important matters for the mining industry, very important matters. But also important matters for WA.
For example, what I did say yesterday in an announcement at the Perth Press Club, was that we'd be using part of the proceeds from this resources super profits tax to establish a WA Regional Infrastructure Fund of at least $2 billion. That's all about how we use some of the profits which come from the most profitable mining companies to funnel back into the state of Western Australia which has generated the wealth in the first place.
HUTCHISON: Can I ask, Mr Rudd-
PM: That's what we're on about here, and that's what's at stake in this.
HUTCHISON: And I think there was some surprise and some enthusiasm at the news of a $2 billion infrastructure spend for Western Australia. How long has that been part of this policy, though? Because for those who are sceptical, for those who say he'll do anything, say anything, that this is policy on the run, how long has that been part of the plan?
PM: Well Geoff, you'll recall that at the time that the tax reform plan of the Government was announced back in the early part of May, that we then announced that there would be a National Infrastructure Fund of around about $6 billion or thereabouts. What I simply confirmed yesterday was that the nature of the distribution of that fund would overwhelmingly benefit the major resource states of WA and Queensland. So in terms of consistency of policy, that's been our approach all around.
The question I'd though raise, and I did at a press conference down at Mandurah this morning, where I've been talking to local workers about the impact of what we're proposing for better super for working families, as well as better funding for infrastructure needs for the future, road, rail and ports is - there's always a big debate here in the west about how we fund this great state's future road, rail, port infrastructure needs. We put forward a plan by which how we fund that, and which is to funnel back into WA a huge slice of the wealth which comes out of the tax paid by our mining companies directly into the future infrastructure needs of WA.
Now, Mr Barnett, the Premier, is very critical of the tax reform plan that we have made. My challenge to him is, what is his alternative plan? Mr Abbott said yesterday that he believes the mining companies are paying all these infrastructure costs across the state. I think that's absolute nonsense. What's his alternative plan? Ours is on the table. Because this state needs to have investment back into the roads, rail, ports and other economic infrastructure to support the state's future development. Our plan's clear. I'd like to know what their alternative ideas are.
HUTCHISON: Prime Minister, is the risk of losing one or even two of the four seats you have in Western Australia a political price that you are prepared to pay to push this through?
PM: You know something Geoff? I believe that here in the west we are going to be highly competitive come the time of the federal election, whenever that is held. And that is because, first of all, we have a strong record of achievement here in the west.
Secondly, because the plan that we have put forward through tax reform also means that you're going to have a WA infrastructure fund to deal with the communities like I've just talked about before at Mandurah, where I've been this morning.
We've got great candidates in the field. I spent some time yesterday with Tim Hammond, our candidate in Swan. This morning with Alannah MacTiernan, our candidate-
HUTCHISON: -Sure, but will people care about how good your candidates are or will they listen to, you know, yesterday, and we were posing the question about whether that Langley Park protest was a broad-based community protest or whether the boss of a mining company said 'hey, all of you go town to the Terrace and hold this placard and wave it', but what troubles people is that, use this as an example: Stephen Moir, who's the head of the Motor Trades Association, spoke out saying 'we don't like the tax, we believe it would impact on every facet of the motor industry, whether it involves selling tyres, servicing the mining industry or renting cars.'
The community anxiety about this tax is that it's consequences will be felt way beyond the mining sector, particularly in Western Australia. That's what they need reassuring about.
PM: Well, let me just go to two basic points about the economy. The first is the Australian Government was criticised strong and loud, including here in the West, I've got to say, by the measures that we took to keep Australia out of recession through the global economic crisis, the global economic recession. Australia succeeded in that and the Australian Government did what it had to do in the face of huge criticism.
Just this morning, secondly, we've just had the unemployment figures released. Unemployment in Australia has gone down to 5.2 percent. What that means, compared with every other advanced economy in the world, almost, we are out-performing them, keeping the economy strong.
HUTCHISON: That is great news, but also, at the same time we're getting figures out about retail spending confidence, and that that's going through the floor.
PM: Well, can I go to the question of your overall point before, was the question of confidence in the direction of the economy. I'm going to two very basic measures, Geoff, in response to your question.
One is the strength of our performance as the only major advanced economy in the world not to go into recession, and that's because this Australian Government did what it had to do in the face of massive criticism of debt and deficit, etcetera.
Secondly, on unemployment, we now have about half the unemployment level of the United States, about half the unemployment level of many countries in Europe, and for your listeners this morning the difference there lies in, frankly, if we were generating the unemployment levels of so many other countries around the world you'd have another half a million Australians out of work, so on the basic direction of economic policy, this Government has a strong record of achievement.
Now, thirdly, how do you keep the economy strong for the long term? How do you build economic growth for the long term? So much of that lies in making sure you're building the infrastructure, the road, rail and ports we need for the future. We've got a plan for doing that, the regional infrastructure fund that I announced yesterday - for the West, $2 billion-plus.
HUTCHISON: But your argument is, isn't it, your argument here is that where else is the money going to come from if not from a tax like this?
PM: That's a core question on which I haven't heard an answer from either Mr Barnett, who constantly asks me for funding and then blames us if that funding is not forthcoming; then I say to Mr Abbott the same question and Mr Abbott says, and he's the alternative Prime Minister, he says 'oh, don't worry, this infrastructure will be funded by the mining companies.' I think that's just nonsense. We've got a clear plan.
HUTCHISON: Last question, Prime Minister. The Attorney-General of Western Australia, Christian Porter, is considering a High Court challenge arguing that there are constitutional measures that will prevent the imposition of this tax and that the WA Government is going to pursue it. Does that concern you?
PM: That's, as I said, I think, yesterday in response to a question at the Perth Press Club, the Commonwealth is advised that we're well fortified in our constitutional position on that. On the broader question of the WA Government, I just think it's time they were fair dinkum. They keep saying they need more infrastructure. We've put forward a way of funding it. Mr Barnett said earlier this year that mining companies were getting away with blue murder. He's no longer saying that. I think it's just time people were a bit straight up and down about this and they'd like to know how we are going to fund all the stuff that this great state needs for the future. We've got a plan for doing it.
HUTCHISON: Kevin Rudd will be meeting with Andrew Forrest a bit later this morning. Please come out of that meeting with both of you shaking hands, because I think the public need to see that, Mr Rudd. I think they, I know this has become a very media debate, that big statements have been made on both sides. You're spending $38 million of our money trying to prosecute your argument in what you call the national interest. The mining sector is spending millions of dollars in a public debate and most of us are scratching our heads and wondering of someone is lying to us or if someone is gilding the lilly, so I just wonder, perhaps you could convince Mr Forrest to come out and you could both shake hands and-
PM: -Well, Geoff, if that's the benchmark you're establishing for success or failure with this morning's discussion with Twiggy, then that's just an unrealistic benchmark. We are going to work our way through this systematically, in a calm and measured way over a period of time and I'll leave the histrionics to others to engage in.
The key question is to make sure we're getting the right outcome for WA, better super for WA families, better infrastructure for WA for the future, and to make sure that the mining companies are paying their fair share of the resources owned by the people of WA.
HUTCHISON: Prime Minister, thank you for talking with me.
PM: Thanks, Geoff. Bye.