PRICE: Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's on the line, PM, good morning.
PM: How'd you go on that one Steve?
PRICE: Ah, you lost I think.
PM: Hey mate, how come you're hanging up the spurs? I mean, you're an institution in Sydney.
PRICE: Ah look, I just think it's time to go and do a couple of other things, I've got a few other things that have been offered to me, so I'm going to just have a look around, spend some time with the family, all those sort of things that people say when they don't know what they're going to do PM, I'll find something to do.
PM: Well, all the best, and wish you well for the future, and thank you for your contribution in the rolling, sometimes rollicking conversation of the Australian democracy, over the last several years.
PRICE: Yeah, I'll get a lot of calls this morning from people saying you're not tough enough on Kevin Rudd, you never ask him the tough questions, and I think we have to have respect very much for your office first and foremost, and a spirited exchange is something you and I have always had, I think.
PM: Well, that's kind of my reflection of it, and I don't think the universal view is that there should be respect for any particular person in Australian public life. But you know, the thing about our system of democracy is that people get out there and say what they think. One of the great things that we've tried to do as a Government is get around the country with Community Cabinet, standing there for hours in front of live community audiences, four to five hundred people, and copping it amidships from people just telling you what they think. But actually it is pretty good for you.
PRICE: You reckon they've worked?
PM: Yeah, I do- we've done nineteen of them round the country. Always are learning something new. And the best thing about it is that you get the Cabinet and you get all the public servants and advisers out of Canberra and into regional Australia, and I think that's been a terrific thing and we'll keep going in the future.
PRICE: You're a bit of a freak, you, and I say that in the very nicest way-
PM: (inaudible)
PRICE: Your poll ratings are sky high, and yet I just get a sense in the community that there's a lot of things that people are really worried about, particularly with this ETS. Do you think you've failed to communicate what it is properly?
PM: Look Steve, I'm the first one to say this is complex, it's hard. Every Government in the world finds it complex and hard. And we've got more to do in communicating what the change will be- but two or three quick points on that. Remember, Australia is the hottest and driest continent on earth, at least one of them. And therefore, the impact of climate change will be felt first and hardest here. And that's a huge economic impact, whether that's drought, the impact on agriculture, rising food prices, the impact on the Great Barrier Reef, Kakadu, all those things.
So the second question is, how do you act? And what John Howard concluded going into the 2007 election, and what we concluded at the same time, was that the only way of doing it was through what is called an Emissions Trading Scheme. It's complex, but all of our expert advisers, both to his Government and to mine, have said this is the least costly way of bringing down carbon pollution.
And the third point is this. How is that done? What we do is that we actually charge the thousand biggest polluters in Australia. And that's designed to do two or three things. Encourage them, with a direct incentive to use cleaner energy in the future, thereby reducing the amount of carbon pollution, thereby taking the pressure off temperature increases in the future. Secondly, the money we raise by charging them to do that, we then use to support families for what Treasury says will be about a 1.5 per cent increase in the cost of living. And we do that by making sure that it's possible for low income earners and middle income earners to get by- 100 per cent compensation for low income earners, and for middle income earners between 60 and 160 grand, there'll be partial compensation, more than half of them will get full compensation.
PRICE: Tony Abbott came out yesterday and claimed it'll cost $400 billion. Does he need to be careful to not just open his mouth and spout the first sentence that comes into his head?
PM: Look, there's just frankly too much policy on the run from the alternative Government of Australia. You've got to actually be calm, methodical, do the policy hard yards, and come up with alternative solutions for the future. If there was a better solution for example to emissions trading, or what we call a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, then I think Mr Howard would've come up with that alternative, or I would've come up with that alternative. But together with 36 Governments around the world, this is the least costly way of doing it. And that's why action now on a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme is the right action on climate change. It's the responsible action, like action in Copenhagen is necessary globally.
There's just too much shooting from the lip, policy on the run, erratic approaches, and I see for example this morning, the alternative Finance Minister for Australia going out there and saying that our State Governments in Australia could default on their debt. That is just grossly irresponsible, when international financial markets are listening carefully to what goes on in the Australian debate, and when our Australian State Governments have between them, the highest credit rating available in the world, either AAA or AA. That's just irresponsible, shooting from the lip.
PRICE: What are you hearing out of Copenhagen? I mean, we're hearing there is some disarray - was that to be expected?
PM: Oh, absolutely. I think between now and the end of next week Steve, you'll hear about 1000 predictions of total failure. You'll hear 1000 predictions of stunning success. And who's going to be responsible for delivering that success. As you know, defeat - sorry, success or victory, as you know, has a thousand fathers, victory none. Or should I say success or victory has a thousand fathers, defeat none. So you're going to have all this speculation. The key thing is just to get in there and do the hard yards and work with other Governments to try and produce a real global agreement which keeps temperature increases for the future down to two degrees Celsius, if we can do that. But make sure that everyone pulls their weight around the world. That's what we're trying to do.
There's no easy answers to this. It's hard stuff. Every Government in the world is finding this hard. But it's a challenge for us all, otherwise we're going to push all that work, all that responsibility onto our kids and grandkids, and by then, it may be too late.
PRICE: It's my last day so I'm not going to replay your buck stops with me health speech-
PM: I'm quite happy if you do, because I don't walk away from that.
PRICE: I know you don't, I notice the Telegraph today has had also a go at this. Are you going to actually do something to give people better treatment in hospitals?
PM: Absolutely, and can I just answer that in two ways. When we came into office, Mr Abbott, as Health Minister, had ripped a billion dollars out of the public hospitals of Australia. What we did last year, was to increase the Australian Government's allocation to the States and Territories for public hospital funding and health funding. It went up by 50 per cent for the next five years, from some $43 billion which is what we inherited as a base, up to some $64 billion. That's what we've done so far.
The second thing is this - what do we do now for the long term future? That's the hospital reform exercise we've got underway at the moment. They've produced their recommendations for the future, in July this year. 123 really complex recommendations for the future.
The Health Minister and I have spent the last four to five months visiting 76 hospitals around Australia- I've done 20 of them myself; road-testing each of those recommendations with local health experts. Then this week we road-tested the recommendations with the Premiers in a meeting of the Council of Australian Governments. And what I've said all along is that we will arrive at our policy conclusions for the future on health and hospitals in the early part of next year.
That's the proper, methodical, calm way of working our way through this. But we've already acted, increased our funding by 50 per cent already, and this is the way we're dealing with long-term reform for the future. We've got to get it right. So many Australians depend on health systems every day, you can't get it wrong.
PRICE: Just to help me on my way, can you tell me when the election might be next year?
PM: You know something? I have had about twelve requests from journalists in particular, about when the election should not be, because it'll interfere with their holiday plans, or various family arrangements or overseas travel that they've got planned. So if you want to stick yours in as well, that'll be fine.
PRICE: Have a good family Christmas. I suspect you won't be travelling given how much you have been travelling.
PM: Mate, I would happily never travel again. I mean, I would happily just sit on the verandah and do some reading, do some work, and spend some time with Therese and the kids, and the cat and the dog. I am over that. But in the current global age there is no alternative, whether it's on the global economy, or big global challenges like climate change. You've got to be in there arguing Australia's case as hard as you can. That means you've got to be there.
PRICE: Thanks for helping us over the last couple of years, appreciate it.
PM: And seriously, all the best mate, and have a really good Christmas yourself. And to all the listeners, can I also say a happy Christmas, and have a great break with your families as well.
PRICE: Thanks Prime Minister.