KELLY: Prime Minister, welcome to breakfast.
PM: Good morning.
KELLY: Prime Minister, the standoff onboard the Oceanic Viking has dragged into the 19th day now. Beyond, patience, what's your policy?
PM: Can I say, firstly, in terms of the introduction you just played, the bottom line is our policy, when it comes to challenge of border protection, is hardline when it comes to people smugglers and humane in dealing with asylum seekers. That is the responsible approach that we took to the last election, including how we would reform border protection policy and immigration policy. That is the policy we have implemented since that time, and we've not changed.
KELLY: Some say a humane response to the Oceanic Viking, then, would just be to bring the people to Christmas Island.
PM: Can I say what we have done in relation to that particular vessel is respond to a distressed vessel at sea, and as a consequence of that, it was in the Indonesian search-and-rescue area. Secondly, the Indonesians had no vessel to send to it. Thirdly, they therefore requested Australia, which had a vessel nearby.
Having intervened, consistent with our international maritime safety obligations, we then took the vessel to the nearest port in Indonesia at the invitation of Indonesian authorities. What we are now engaged in of course, as we are often engaged in, in terms of the complex matters with asylum seekers, is a continued discussion with the Indonesian authorities and others about the proper processing of these individuals.
None of these matters are simple. They are always complex, but we intend to work our way calmly and methodically through this over time, and dealing also with the fact that we have the outflow across the world and to the region from a civil war in Sri Lanka which occurred only three to six months ago which has seen 260,000 people displaced in that island, and tens of thousands of people seeking refuge in other parts of the world - in India, in Europe, in North America, and, of course, in South-East Asia and Australia.
It's important, to see the challenge that we face in its proper context.
KELLY: Back to the Oceanic Viking, what exactly is the holdup? Specifically.
PM: Well, when you're dealing complex individual discussions involving the International Office of Migration and the UNHCR and the Indonesian authorities, each of these things take time. And of course we have somewhat unique circumstances here because of the search-and-rescue operation which preceded it. Now, these things are complicated, but I could say while there is legitimate and understandable debate concerning this particular vessel, at the same time, we are dealing with challenges right across the board, including a significant, increased outflow from Sri Lanka because of the civil war.
KELLY: Sure, but the Oceanic Viking is your policy in action, your policy about heading off asylum seekers and processing them in Indonesia or Malaysia. If you can't get these people off the boat, your policy is a failure.
PM: Our policy in action, Fran, deals with one - the 81 interruptions of vessels which have sought to leave either Malaysia or Indonesia or Sri Lanka in recent times. Our policy in action lies in the 43 people smuggling organisations who are currently being prosecuted before the Australian courts and the 15 people who have been convicted.
Our policy in action lies in the fact that we have a 25 percent increase in the maritime and air surveillance assets we have, and the fact that virtually all vessels heading towards Australian waters have been interdicted at sea and taken to Christmas Island for proper processing, consistent with UNHCR principles.
That's what we've been dealing with when it comes to the implementation of a policy since this Government has been elected, the policy we took, in detail, to the last election and one we have implemented consistently since then.
KELLY: As it stands now, the policy seems to have resulted in two boatloads of people who won't get off their boats. Have you spoken again to the Indonesian President, about the deal you had over the Oceanic Viking in particular?
PM: The concern, in terms of this individual vessel was the particular humanitarian circumstances of a vessel in distress within the Indonesian maritime safety and search-and-rescue authority. That is the circumstances which pertain to this vessel.
More recently we've been dealing with another vessel, with tragic circumstances, some 700km north-west of Cocos Island, and therefore each of these vessels must be dealt with on its merits and the individual circumstances concerning it. We will continue to implement a responsible, balanced policy when it comes to dealing with the challenge of people smugglers, which has long existed.
Let us not forget, Fran, in the period of the previous Government we had nearly 250 vessels arrive in this country with some nearly 15,000 asylum seekers. We also had the failed Pacific Solution, which this Government has abolished. We had children behind razor wire, which this Government has abolished. We also had the failed temporary protection visas, which this Government has abolished - and all those changes done with the complete support of the now-Opposition, then Government, after the last election.
And I just add to this, that when it comes to a criticism of the implementation of a responsible border protection policy, which will always be attacked from the far Right, who presumably want children back behind razor wire, or from people on the Left, who presumably argue that there should be no orderly migration or border protection arrangements at all, that we will always, therefore, come under attack. That is fair and proper in a democracy. That will be the case into the future. My job is to take these difficult decisions in the national interest and that's what we intend to do into the future as well.
KELLY: Prime Minister, can I just ask you simply, are there any circumstances under which these 78 people could be brought to Christmas Island?
PM: These individuals are being properly processed using the IOM and the UNHCR officials who are currently in Indonesia because, I simply go back to the point, the Indonesian search-and-rescue authorities approved the Australian vessel coming ashore once the Australian vessel had intervened at their request to deal with the vessel on the high seas. The challenge here-
KELLY: Sure, but we seem to have reached an impasse. Are there any circumstances under which -
PM: The challenge here is to work your way calmly and methodically through each individual case. We will continue to do so with this and every other challenge which lies down the track.
And I'll just say this to you, Fran, we have had these vessels arriving in this country for the last 30 years. It will continue to be a challenge into the future. Each one has to be dealt with calmly and methodically, but this Government will continue to make these sorts of decisions in the national interest. We have confidence in our officials working on these matters, as we do with the professionalism of our Customs staff, our Navy officers, and all our professional men and women, in dealing with very complex circumstances, and therefore this one will be handled properly, calmly and methodically, and as I've said and have said before, the Indonesian Foreign Minister rightly said a week or so ago they have great patience in dealing with each of these matters. So does the Australian Government. That's what we intend to do for the period ahead, as well.
KELLY: The Indonesian Foreign Minister also says this is Australia's problem, they're on an Australian boat. Are you ruling out these could people could ultimately be brought to Christmas Island?
PM: These individuals are being processed in the Indonesian port. That is at the request of the Indonesians and that is how it's going to continue into the future until these matters are properly dealt with. Therefore, can I just say to you that with each individual vessel, depending on the circumstance which surround the way in which that vessel is interdicted, the cooperation with the relevant government, whether it's the Malaysian Government, the Indonesian Government or the Sri Lankan Government, we will deal with each practical set of circumstances based on the challenges which arise from that vessel.
That's what we've done with each of the vessels which have sought to come here and I emphasise the fact that we have had 81 successful interruptions, and part of the reason for that is the deep concern which the Government has had throughout - prior to there being any public debate on these matters - about people smugglers putting people onto vessels and then placing those people's lives at risk, which, tragically, we've seen recently in the Indian Ocean. That is why we are engaged actively with the law enforcement authorities and the security authorities of Indonesia, Malaysia and Sri Lanka, seeking to deal with this problem.
But again, to put it in its context, if you've got 250,000 Sri Lankans displaced within the final stages of a conflict in Sri Lanka and you've had tens of thousands of those individuals from Sri Lanka already seeking a refuge in Germany, in France, in Canada, in the United States, in various parts of South-East Asia, and in Australia some 1,000 - 2,000 have headed in this direction.
This is part of the global reality that we face, and this has been the case for so many countries around the world. We will continue to honour out international obligations and maintain a strong border protection policy, while I recognise fully this will be a continued matter for public debate. And for people criticising it from either the Right or the Left, my job is to act in the national interest -
KELLY: (inaudible) Prime Minister, a couple of quick questions on another issue. The ETS - how are the negotiations going with the opposition on the emissions trading scheme? Is an agreement within reach?
PM: On the question of the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, the Government as you know, entered good faith negotiations with the Opposition some weeks ago. Those negotiations continue. The most disappointing thing during that debate was the statement only some days ago by Senator Minchin, the Leader of Opposition in the Senate. He seemed to infer that whatever agreement might be reached by the Opposition and the Government, that as far as Senator Minchin is concerned, they would vote it down. I find that confusing.
Nonetheless, I don't think we the Government, will be backing away from good faith negotiations with the Opposition. The reason is, we need to get an outcome on the Carbon
Pollution Reduction Scheme for Australia, for business certainty, as well as doing our bit as far as the global effort is concerned on green house gas emissions. And also to provide a necessary platform for Australia to continue to take action at home and, at the same time, work towards a successful conclusion at Copenhagen. These are all hard and difficult challenges -
KELLY: Will you be going to Copenhagen next month? You yourself?
PM: I said to the Danish Prime Minister, I am prepared to travel to Copenhagen. I am happy to travel to Copenhagen. At the end of the day it will depend on the judgement of the Danish Prime Minister, as chairman of the conference, as to whether he regards it as productive, and positive and useful for heads of government to attend.
KELLY: OK
PM: On that matter, on that matter, in the course of the last week, myself and various other heads of government, as friends of the chair, have participated in several video conference links with the Danish Prime Minister, again late last night here in Australia, working our way through, a very complex set of negotiations.
We need to see progress at Copenhagen. These are tough and hard negotiations. But in terms of Australia being, in this country, one of the hottest and driest continents on earth, where the impacts of climate change will be felt first and hardest. We the Australian Government intend to exert every effort at home through the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme negotiations and in Copenhagen to bring about the best and most effective agreement possible.
KELLY: And just very briefly Prime Minister. You've appointed Peter Costello to the board of the Future Fund. He's taken a job now in the corporate sector. Is this a conflict of interest? Are you worried about this at all?
PM: We believe that all those matters concerning employment and any associated conflict are properly handled by our relevant public service authorities. I've said before about Peter Costello's appointment, we need to get to a stage in Australian politics that when people decide to hang up the boxing gloves and to make another contribution to Australian public life they should be given the opportunity to do so with their talents matched to the needs that the nation has.
So I welcome Peter Costello's appointment in this area, on the Future Fund. Similarly with Kim Beazley in the United States and with Brendan Nelson in Brussels and we'll continue to make appropriate appointments into the future. We need to be a Government and a nation which harvests all of our talents, given the future challenges we have.
KELLY: Prime Minister it's nice to have you on breakfast. Thanks very much for joining us.
PM: Thanks for having me on the program.