CURTIS: Mr Rudd, welcome to AM.
PM: Thanks for having me on the program.
CURTIS: At a meeting in February Godwin Grech held with Ford Credit to discuss giving that company half a billion dollars of Government help to continue its business, was the name of any car dealer other than John Grant's raised?
PM: I'm unfamiliar with those discussions. I am sure those things will come out in the course of the Auditor-General's enquiry, which we've established.
CURTIS: But these-
PM: Can I just go to the core of the proposition which Mr Hockey and others, including various people commenting on this program have put, and that is that I as Prime Minister sought to make representations on behalf of Mr Grant to the Treasury, and that as a consequence the Treasurer took special actions in order to make those representations to the Treasury himself.
And all that hinges on Mr Turnbull's claim and other claims that there is an email between myself, and, between my office and the Treasury. The problem is, no such email exists. It is false, it is fake, it is a forgery, notwithstanding the fact that that is the single piece of evidence which Mr Turnbull and the Liberal Party have advanced on this matter.
CURTIS: We'll come to the email in a moment, but the case against -
PM: It's very -
CURTIS: - the Treasurer hangs on whether Mr Grant was given special treatment. If Mr Grant's name was the only one raised in what was a very important meeting for Ford Credit; a meeting to decide if they could get Government help to continue their business, doesn't that show Mr Grant received special treatment?
PM: As you would have just heard in your report on your own program, the Motor Trades Association was referred to a whole range of cases which were being dealt with over time.
CURTIS: Have they (inaudible) emails involved in those cases-
PM: Secondly, can I just say this, Mr Swan, the Treasurer's office, dealt with representations I believe from about half a dozen different members of Parliament. I further understand that there are lots of emails concerning other transactions other than this one concerning Mr Grant.
You ask the question about what is core and foundational - in the case concerning the Treasurer Mr Swan it is this: the Opposition - Mr Turnbull's allegation is this; that I as Prime Minister made representations through my office to the Treasury, on behalf of Mr Grant, and secondly, caused therefore the Treasurer to make particular efforts in relation to this man.
That rests on Mr Turnbull's assertion that I have had communications with the Treasury, and in substantiating that, the Opposition in the Senate put forward what they purported to be the contents of an email between myself and the Treasury, the contents of which need to be read, so that people know what we're up against here.
This is what Senator Abetz read from, on behalf of the Liberal Party in the Senate. This is the purported email:
“Hi Godwin" that's Mr Grech, "the PM has asked if a car dealer financing vehicle is available to assist a Queensland dealership, John Grant Motors who seems to be having trouble getting finance. If you can follow on this asap that would be very useful. Happy to discuss,” Andrew Charlton, in my office.
Here is the problem - this purported email is fake, it is false, it is a forgery. Notwithstanding that, the Daily Telegraph on Saturday chose to produce a mocked-up version of it. Can I just say this as well, when Mr Turnbull today, Monday, was asked about the Opposition's awareness of this particular email, and why Senator Abetz on behalf of the Liberal Party used it in the Senate enquiry last Friday, he said, "Oh, it had already been used - it had already been published in the Daily Telegraph."
Problem, Mr Turnbull: it was not published in the Daily Telegraph until Saturday. The Senate enquiry was on Friday. What is at stake here is Mr Turnbull's knowledge of the contents of this fault, false, fake and forged email; his staff's knowledge of it; the extent to which they sought to disseminate it to others in the media, and to build up this 'smoking gun' case against myself and the Treasurer, which is based on a forged document.
This is the same Liberal Party that gave us children overboard. Mr Turnbull today has a responsibility to enter the Parliament, and to provide a copy of this document and details concerning his use of the contents of it. If he fails to do so, given he has called for my resignation and that of the Treasurer, he has no alternative than to stand up, to apologise, and to resign.
CURTIS: But Mr Rudd in emails that were tabled in the Senate Inquiry that no-one has disputed it shows that Ford Credit said they were prepared to look at Mr Grant's case at a time they were trying to get independent dealers off their books. Doesn't that show Mr Grant was receiving special, receiving other than normal treatment?
PM: There are multiple cases being dealt with here, concerning a whole range of different car dealers, as I just said -
CURTIS: None of them were raised in a meeting that was also -
PM: Well can I just say the purpose, the purpose we have an Auditor-General's inquiry is to go through each of these individual cases. Remember this whole vehicle, this special purpose vehicle to assist car dealerships, as of today has not provided a single dollar of finance to anybody. That's why it's still before the Senate.
What we're talking about is representations here. And furthermore, it is a special purpose vehicle to be made available to the entire car dealership industry - not to any particular individual.
And so representations were made on behalf of a number of car dealerships, half a dozen members of Parliament - half of them in turn being from non-Government electorates - as well as the Motor Trades Association as you indicated before, considering a whole range of these as well.
But I go back to the core, rock foundation upon which Mr Turnbull has sought to smear my reputation as Prime Minister, and that of the Treasurer, which is his argument backgrounding editors across the country - and you know this to be true - over the last couple of weeks, saying that they have a smoking gun against the Government, that it is this email which drops me directly in it.
The email is the one I've just referred to you. It is false, fake and a forgery; there can be no graver offence in public political life than to be in the business of communicating a document which is false out there through the media in order to bring your political opponent down.
Mr Turnbull must now apply these standards to himself, stand in the Parliament, provide a copy of his evidence - this document, this purported email - and if he doesn't, to apologise and resign.
Mr Hockey today, I notice, has repeated allegations that I have misled the Parliament on this matter. Mr Hockey, similarly, is now in the same position.
CURTIS: Mr Swan told the Parliament he had no idea what the outcome of the referral of Mr Grant's case was (inaudible) to Treasury was, yet the emails tabled on Friday show he was aware of some outcomes of the actions taken by Mr Grech to assist Mr Grant. Doesn't that prove the Treasurer's parliamentary statement false?
PM: Well, I presume by outcomes we're talking about the delivery of financial conclusions from the special purpose vehicle. I simply go to your, the point that I made to you before, that the special purpose vehicle, called OzCar, doesn't as yet exist. It is still in the Senate. Not a dollar has been provided from it. That is the point.
In terms of what has happened as far as the financial arrangements of each of these car dealerships - the half dozen or so representations which were made by many members of Parliament - I wouldn't have a clue what the outcomes were. Nor, in relation to all those referred to by Mr Delaney and the Motor Trades Association.
But the core point is this: you are inferring or assuming that there is something inherently wrong in the Treasurer's actions when the core argument against him is that has acted in a particular way in support of Mr Grant, because I as Prime Minister have made improper representations on behalf of Mr Grant to the Treasury.
That is the rock, the foundation upon which this entire attack on my credibility and the Treasurer's is based. That rock has disintegrated into sand. Mr Turnbull is running a million miles away today from this email, this alleged communication, about which he has asked questions in Parliament in terms of any representations having been made by me.
He has run this as a backgrounding exercise with the media, and I've got to say - for the Saturday Daily Telegraph of this week, just weekend just past, to run this email in a mocked-up version, having had from me the previous night a comprehensive response in terms of its inaccuracy, leaves fundamental questions as well in terms of standards of professional behaviour.
CURTIS: Mr Swan though knew that meetings were happening; he knew the outcome of some of those meetings. He knew Mr Grant's case was being taken up with Ford Credit and with Capital Finance.
How is that not knowing at least some outcomes? And isn't it parsing words into infinity to say that he was talking about the final outcome? Wasn't the clear impression he left the Parliament with that he handed the case over to Treasury, and that was it?
PM: Can I just say that as Treasurer of the Commonwealth in the midst of the worst recession in three-quarters of a century, the Treasurer has a few things going on.
CURTIS: But he made (inaudible)
PM: (Inaudible) I'm saying to you, I've noticed there's been a lot of commentary, for example, about various materials being faxed to his home. Every evening I would receive hundreds of pages of documents from the Government departments about any range of matters, some of which I may read, others of which I may not get round to. That is the nature of busy life as a senior minister in the Government.
Mr Swan has been into his work in dealing with the whole challenge of the global economic recession. Of course you're going to get a whole lot of stuff sent to your fax.
But I keep coming back to this whole point: What is the core proposition on which this allegation against him is based, about the impropriety, it is that I, as Prime Minister, have made representations on behalf of this particular car dealer in Queensland to cause the Treasurer to make special efforts on his behalf.
That is the falsehood in this. The core, absolute falsehood. Because the document on which this is based - a document which Mr Turnbull, the contents of which has seemed to hawk around News Limited editors for the last few weeks.
A document around which he then sought to threaten a member of my staff last Wednesday night at a press gallery ball in Canberra, in saying this documentary evidence exists; a document which he says was only raised by Senator Abetz in the Senate because it appeared in the Daily Telegraph.
But here's the problem for Mr Turnbull again: when you try and wriggle out from under, from allegations you've being made, he can't even get his story straight. Because the day this is raised in the Senate is in fact one day prior to this document appearing in the public domain in the Daily Telegraph.
Mr Turnbull is digging himself into more and more trouble. He has one option today: stand in the Parliament - that's why we're here in Canberra - produce this email as a basis for his authentication. If he fails to do so, he has no alternative but to apologise and to resign.
CURTIS: Mr Rudd, thank you very much for your time.
PM: Thank you.