CARY: Mr Rudd, Prime Minister good morning.
PM: Good morning Greg.
CARY: It's good to talk to you. Two soldiers killed in Afghanistan this week. I think we all admire the ability, the bravery of all those serving there. What I struggle to understand and I'm sure I'm not alone is what exactly are they fighting for, what's the goal, and what is the strategy to achieve that goal?
PM: Greg, first let me just say for the families and friends of those who have just lost their lives and to the nation, that we all are saddened by this further loss of Australian life in Afghanistan. These are very brave men as you've just indicated, and this most recent death involves someone putting himself literally in the frontline to look after his mates.
On the question you raise, it's very important that we remind ourselves of what is our mission in Afghanistan. Let's never forget that we have had something like a hundred Australians in recent years who have been killed in terrorist attacks and those responsible for those attacks have primarily come from Afghanistan. That is, trained in Afghanistan. Let's also bear in mind that with the Bali bombing, that a number of those responsible for that horrific murderous terrorists attack were trained in Afghanistan.
Let's not forget the fact therefore that terrorism is alive and well. Not just in the Middle East, but across the world, and we have to remain vigilant about the threat of terrorism here on the home front in Australia as well.
So you go to the question as to the mission. The reason why al-Qaeda was able to operate unfettered for so long was because they had Afghanistan as virtually their open range, free range training base. That's what it was all about.
That's why we went into Afghanistan after the attacks on September 11 with the United States. Not only did thousands of Americans lose their lives on September 11, but Australians were killed in the attacks on the Twin Towers as well. And since then, in other terrorist attacks including at Bali, we've had, again, individuals trained in Afghanistan.
So the mission is to disrupt and to deny Afghanistan as a open training and operational base for al-Qaeda because we've seen what al-Qaeda can do in the past. Our job is to make that as hard as possible for them for the future.
CARY: Understand that. Are we achieving that mission though? And part of that question, I suppose would include Pakistan, the north-west provinces at least which now appear to be controlled by al-Qaeda.
PM: Well, you're right to point out that it's Afghanistan, plus because of the large amount of cross border movement between Afghanistan and Pakistan, this other part of the country which is generally called Waziristan as well, which is across the border regions. This is a real problem and that's why we've got to be very mindful of the wider theatre of operations as well. It's a combination of diplomacy with other governments, intelligence and security cooperation with agencies around the world, as well as on the ground hard military work in Afghanistan itself.
Our soldiers in our province of Oruzgan, the one where the Australian Defence Force are operating, are doing a first class job. What they are doing is registering a large number of successes. And if we were doing as well in the rest of the country as our soldiers together with our Dutch partners are doing in Oruzgan, then we would be better off overall.
But I've got to be upfront with you. Afghanistan-wide, there are real problems with the strategy. That's why President Obama recently called for a full review of US and allied strategy in Afghanistan and one of the things I'll be talking to him about in Washington next Tuesday is their current and future thinking on how to prosecute this mission.
CARY: Prime Minister, when you speak with President Obama, if he requests a greater Australian troop commitment to Afghanistan, will you give him that?
PM: What I've always said, Greg, is that we think our current commitments are about right. But we've also said that the change in administration, it's entirely conceivable that they may put forward further proposals to us. And what we've always said is that we would consider each of those proposals on their merits because we're all in this together with our US ally, the British, and a large number of other NATO forces as well. And we've all got to be working to a common strategic mission. But listening to what President Obama has to say, reflecting on it, does not necessarily mean agreeing with it. We'll consider everything on its merits and we've said that from the beginning.
CARY: As you sit down with President Obama, what will be on the top of your priority list there?
PM: Top of the list, obviously we're concerned about continuing security threats around the world. But we're also concerned about threats to economic security and that brings us back to the global recession.
And as I go to the United States, that is of course in the lead-up to the G20 Summit in London a week or so later, where together with the leaders of the top 20 economies around the world, we'll be looking at specific measures to try and restore confidence to the global economy and, in particular, get global credit flows going again so that our global big banks are working properly because from that point on, you can start to track the pattern of economic recovery. But a lot of work has to be done and we've been working very hard behind the scenes with the Americans and the British and others, to try and advance that program of agreement.
CARY: Are you confident that we are getting on top of this thing?
PM: I think we've made progress. The G20 Finance Ministers meeting, group of 20 largest economies' finance ministers meeting, was in London last weekend. Treasurer Wayne Swan attended that representing Australia, as did the Governor of the Reserve Bank from Australia.
There was a significant piece of progress through an agreed set of principles between all those governments on how to deal with, let's call it the problem on the balance sheets of the world's biggest banks, what's called in the debate toxic assets.
And what we did with our partners around the world was put together a framework of principles, for actually dealing with that problem. Why is that so important? Unless you get these big banks' balance sheets back in order, and it's done in a coordinated way across the world, then you've got a real problem when it comes to getting the flow of private credit going again, worldwide.
And that means through to Australia as well because it's only when you got a return to normal credit flows that you begin to see also a return to normal levels of economic activity.
What we do as governments, through our economic stimulus strategy, through our work with investing in the biggest school modernisation program in the country's history, investing in social housing, in insulation to increase energy efficiency - these are all good but interim measures to support growth and jobs in the economy, providing extra jobs for tradies and the rest.
But it's all against that day that we get a return to normal credit flows in the private economy. And that's why we're so active internationally as well.
CARY: I know you've got a big day. Just one final question. The Fair Work Bill amended in the Senate last night. And under the change, small business would be defined as being 20 employees as it relates to unfair dismissal laws. Now you wanted 15, the Opposition eventually wanted 25. So we're down to 20. Now that sounds a fair compromise. Will you now pass it in the House of Reps?
PM: Greg, we take our mandate from the Australian people very seriously. We went to the last election saying that the number was 15. And if we were to accept this amendment it would mean throwing half a million workers out there to the wolves without any form of protection in terms of unfair dismissal.
Now in a time of a global recession, I think that's a real problem. It's like the Liberals and Nationals have Work Choices in their DNA. And you see this across the spectrum, not just on Work Choices, but also on things like economic stimulus.
They support Work Choices, they oppose fairness in the workplace, they oppose economic stimulus where it supports jobs in the workplace, and you see the same up in Queensland as well. I can't understand Mr Springborg's position for example of saying he's going to rip $1 billion out of the state budget, throw another 12,000 people onto the unemployment queue, teachers, nurses and police -
CARY: Yeah. With respect Prime Minister if we start to get into the local election which I really wanted to avoid in this interview, I just don't think it's fair because then I'll have to give the other side -
PM: Well, I'm sure you could interview whoever you would like on this one including Mr Turnbull, but I'm just making a very simple point about contrast. Our approach on Work Choices and our approach on jobs. And our approach on jobs is to stimulate jobs and our opponents, state and federal, are saying the Government doesn't have a role to invest in infrastructure. And the contrast is very clear.
CARY: But Prime Minister, just on that point, if the legislation is that important, if WorkChoices is so bad, if the Fair Work Bill is so good, why stick over the difference between 15 and 20?
PM: Because we take the wellbeing of half a million workers very seriously, and that is the difference between 15 and 20.
And if you're a person out there in the midst of a global economic recession, concerned about your work and the security of your jobs, you want to know two things. Is your government out there investing in infrastructure to support jobs, one thing. And the second is, is your government out there providing proper protections in the workplace for your jobs, vis-a-vis unfair dismissal and remember Work Choices ripped away redundancy as well.
This is a big dividing line between us. And that's why we'll be sticking to our guns in the Parliament in Canberra today, and I expect the Parliament to respect the will of the people which they made very clear on Work Choices, when they last went to the Federal election.
CARY: Good to talk to you this morning. Safe trip overseas.
PM: Thank you very much.
[ends]