PM CLARK: It's been a great pleasure for me today to host Kevin Rudd in his visit to New Zealand. We've begun the dialogue at the Australian-New Zealand climate change forum and carried on the climate change discussion in our talks this morning.
Clearly climate change will be one of the key issues that the Pacific leaders want to discuss at the forum and with Australia now on board and having ratified the Kyoto Protocol and taking a very full and constructive part in international negotiations I think this is going to improve the atmosphere in which this issue is discussed at the forum this year. So that's the key thing discussed.
We've obviously discussed the other items on the agenda including Fiji. I repeat what I said in the New Zealand media yesterday afternoon that there is no reasonable excuse at all for Fiji not attending the forum.
I personally intervened to ensure that transit visas were available for the Fiji delegation to go through Auckland airport to Niue so that they could be accountable to forum leaders for commitments given last year. I think forum leaders will be very disappointed that the Fijian Government has determined not to be represented for reasons which can only be described as spurious.
Nonetheless forum leaders will address the issue of Fiji, we have a Ministerial Contact Group report and recommendations which (inaudible) discussed and no doubt the forum will be in touch with the interim Government of Fiji afterwards to convey the views of the forum.
Apart from that we've touched on a number of issues that our Governments work on and there is an announcement that I have to make today on behalf of the New Zealand Government and that is that following representations from Australia over a number of months, firstly from Prime Minister Kevin Rudd to me in the discussion of the level of (inaudible) New Zealand has decided that it will formally and publicly support and campaign for Australia's bid to host the world's largest radio telescope project.
We see this as having possibilities and potential for New Zealand and Australia that at this time are probably almost beyond our imagination. There are a number of steps to be gone through here as Australia is campaigning for the support for its bid and we will join that campaign. We have agreed today that our Governments will sit on a joint officials committee which will work on the diplomatic work which must now be done and also the way in which our science, our investment, our ICT infrastructure, our economic modernisation, development transformation can be leveraged off a huge project of such significance as this should Australia be successful in winning the right to host it.
So that would be a very exciting field for our scientists, for our technology people and one that we are very interested in exploring the full potential of with Australia through the joint officials process staring very, very soon.
Prime Minister Rudd, over to you.
PM RUDD: Thanks very much Helen and its good to be back in New Zealand and thank you very much for your hospitality today here in Auckland.
This is a very good relationship between our two countries and our two Governments and I appreciate very much the contribution which the Prime Minister makes to this relationship to make it work on both sides of the Tasman.
One of the key areas of cooperation between the both of us is the critical global challenge of climate change. As I said in today's forum, I would acknowledge publicly the leadership role which the Prime Minister of New Zealand has demonstrated on this over many years.
Leadership has been necessary in order to focus the global debate on the actions we need to take collectively as nation states to deal with this great environmental and economic challenge.
Together we are acting domestically through our respective approaches to emissions trading regimes. We are also acting together internationally through the current set of negotiations for the post Kyoto arrangements post 2012. And Australia has no closer partner in those negotiations than New Zealand. We will continue to work closely on these challenges and through the Poznan and through to Copenhagen at the end of next year.
We are about to go to Niue where in our consultations with our fellow heads of Government from the Pacific Island countries, we are confronted front and centre with the impact of climate change on regional states.
When I recently attended the G8 plus meeting in Hokkaido in Japan, one of the messages I sought to convey to the heads of the major industrial economies in the world was these are not theoretical debates for our friends in the South Pacific. For many of them this is a real and emerging reality which goes to the very survivability of their nation states. And that is something of which both the Prime Minister and myself are acutely conscious when we sit down with forum heads of Government in Niue over the next two days.
Secondly, more broadly across the forums agenda, there is the great and continuing challenge represented by the threat to democracy in Fiji. I think it is absolutely regrettable that the leader of Fiji has decided not to attend this forum. It would have been far better for the leader of Fiji to sit down with the leaders of the Pacific Island countries and answer to the commitments which have been previously given by Fiji to fellow Island states. That is now not going to occur.
The reasons for non-attendance which have been provided are simply not persuasive, particularly given the facts which Prime Minister Clark has just put before you.
We in the South Pacific and Pacific Island countries in particular take democracy seriously. That is why we don't believe we can sit idly by while the principles of democracy are shredded, and therefore, the resolve of Pacific Island counties is to act in concert on this question and we look forward very much to the discussion which will now occur minus Fiji in Niue on how this matter should be handled into the future.
It is regrettable that Fiji will not be represented in its own right, given that Fiji, and to the traducement of democracy, is the core subject for discussion.
And finally on the square kilometre array radio telescope. What Prime Minister Clark has said is absolutely right this is a massive project of global significance and for radio astronomy in our two countries and you have got to be in it to win it. This is a big project with multiple billions of dollars worth of investment. Once constructed this would be the largest radio telescope in the world, 50 times more powerful than any current radio telescope, a huge contribution to global radio astronomy, a huge contribution to the science in our respective countries, to innovation in our respective countries. And to be in not only do we have to put forward a credible scientific case, we also need to put together a coherent diplomatic strategy to secure it.
The decision makers here are a group of 19 countries who form part of an international consortium. And they will be assessing this primarily on the science and the basis of Government support for such a project.
The beauty of us being able to put forward potentially a combined bid is if you look at the geographical spread that we can provide all the way from Perth in the west over here to New Zealand in the east, that's a sizable array of radio telescopes that you can put together. And the proposal here is that you would have several hundred clusters of dishes, some 50 to 100 individual dishes, forming part of each particular cluster.
That represents a major advance on the science, the technological spin off, the innovation spin off and therefore the industry spin off for our respective economies would be huge. And therefore, with large projects like this, it's really good that we have the potential for our two Governments to work together.
Hence the Prime Minister's proposal for a joint officials group to work between Wellington and Canberra on this at the diplomatic level, but also at the science level and the technical level to make sure that we advance this proposal.
Decision time is still some couple of years off. But unless we are up there at it with the proposal before the decision making country in the interim then we will simply not prevail and we intend to be in it to win it.
JOURNALIST: Question for Prime Minister Rudd, talking of energy efficiency this morning I wanted to clarify you mentioned the figure of 30 per cent. Did you mean that we could meet up to 30 per cent of our abatement task right through energy efficiency measures? And also when will we see that package of measures and are they likely to include mandatory measures for industry?
PM RUDD: The Government continues to work on additional energy efficiency measures. Some we committed to prior to the last election concerning what can be done in households in particular. But, we recognise fully that there is a much broader set of measures to be embraced by both households and by businesses in order to make a significant contribution to drawing down overall energy usage, and therefore greenhouse gas emissions.
As for the figure of 30 per cent, there is not a robust science around that number. I think I seem to recall using the term ‘one of the numbers kicked around Government' is 30 per cent. Given, however, the fact that most in the international community talk about significant numbers in this area, I believe we've got to take this seriously, robustly, particularly in a period where we're starting up other mechanisms such as, in our case, the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, and New Zealand's equivalent scheme in terms of emissions trading, in order to make an overall longer term impact on drawing down carbon emissions.
Energy efficiency, second plank, and we'll be doing more on that in the months ahead as well as what we do on the renewable energy front. These for us are three fronts that we'll be embracing in dealing with the overall challenge of climate change.
JOURNALIST: (Inaudible) did you discuss in your meeting this morning perhaps new recommendations or perhaps sanctions that you might take to Niue, its a question for both if you could in regards to forcing Bainimarama around the table in the future?
PM CLARK: What we have is the Ministerial Contact Group report, and list of recommendations. And those have not yet been publicly disclosed. So, the issue will be whether in the light of Fiji's interim Government's non-attendance, whether leaders will be of mind to take the matter further than the Ministerial Contact Group envisaged.
That's something I'll be wanting to canvass with other leaders as they start filing into meetings in Niue this evening.
PM RUDD: I think the other thing to be said is Bainimarama's, frankly, contempt for regional leaders such as the Grand Chief of Papua New Guinea, Sir Michael Somare, on this question have to be taken into account. And I think it's going to turn into a very interesting discussion in Niue in terms of this decision not to attend.
JOURNALIST: Wont both of you be disappointed though if there isn't a strong message coming out of this forum demanding that Fiji returns democracy?
PM CLARK: I think there will be a strong message from the forum and the Ministerial Contact Group report and recommendations are strong. I think that Pacific leaders will be concerned at the no-show. Because it is about keeping face, isn't it. If someone is not prepared to come and be accountable for breaking commitments given to leaders a year ago, that itself speaks volumes.
So I expect there will be a robust outcome from the forum.
PM RUDD: And I think regional leaders generally will be disappointed. As the Prime Minister was saying before that the Fijian leader has chosen not to front, and to confront his counterparts in the south Pacific. I would have thought that that would be a normal thing to do.
JOURNALIST: (Inaudible)
PM CLARK: Well, we're of the view that the Pacific is not at that point. This question has been around, obviously in the media and the commentary for quite a long time. But I think it's important that we don't run up the white flag on the future of small nations ATOL nations in the Pacific and elsewhere at this time.
New Zealand, as you know, has (inaudible) communities here including from Tuvalu and Kiribati. At this point we provide for an ordinary migration through the resident quotas each year and of course for the seasonal work opportunities. And there is a quite a lot of family (inaudible) which goes on as well.
I don't think we're at the point where anyone if you wanted (inaudible) would be thinking of mass relocation of people. We're in the business of trying to stop the world's climate deteriorating to the point where these nations are (inaudible)
I'll probably take one more from each side, because I'm trying to catch a one o'clock.
JOURNALIST: Emissions trading (inaudible)
PM RUDD: Well, we are at the Green Paper stage in Australia. New Zealand is more advanced than that. We have a ways to go through that before we reach a White Paper, and then to legislation.
Again, our officials respectively advise us that there are no barriers to linkage. I think we are seeking to get our own houses in order first. And I think that is the process in which we are in engaged and explicitly stated in our Green Paper is a preparedness to link with compatible international systems.
And frankly, in terms of the long term health of the planet, that is a good direction to head in. But as I said, in terms of our processes, we still have a way to go.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister the NSG, the Nuclear Supply Group meets in two days. New Zealand has reservations about giving India a waiver, Australia clearly supports it. What the view of the two Prime Ministers on where this issue is going to go, will it survive?
PM CLARK: Well we haven't discussed this today and New Zealand is working with the group of other small like minded countries who are represented on the Nuclear Supply Group. Obviously with the agreement that has been reached raised some minor concerns from New Zealand as a nuclear free country and those concerns have been shared by others, small western democracies.
So we will be meeting, we will be listening to the case and networking with others. It would be no secret that we would like to see more conditionalities around the agreement. We're pursuing this diplomatically.
JOURNALIST: On Pakistan, can I ask you both to comment on the resignation of Pervez Musharraf?
PM CLARK: You can.
I heard it on the morning news this morning so I haven't had time to take further advice. Does this come as a surprise? No, it doesn't. I think Pakistan is going through a process of change. Mr Musharraf visited our country three or four years ago. We had discussions with him then urging a return to a democratic Government.
We were active in the Commonwealth on issues relating to Pakistan. We saw with great sorrow the death of Benazir Bhutto in the midst of an election campaign a few months ago. We can only hope now that Pakistan will make a transition to a popularly elected President who can help bring stability to the country.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister Clark have you been able to confirm to Prime Minister Rudd that have you have the numbers to pass the emissions trading scheme (Inaudible)
PM CLARK: I've said to Kevin Rudd today exactly what I have been saying to Kiwi media that we continue discussion with the parties who maybe able to provide support for that and as soon a there is a majority for proceeding you will be the first to hear about it.
JOURNALIST: (Inaudible) Pakistan (Inaudible) Binge drinking (inaudible)
PM RUDD: I'll try and draw those two themes together in a creative and insightful way. Pakistan internal politics and binge drinking.
On the question of Pakistan, which has been raised by two journalists here. Pakistan's domestic politics is a matter for the Pakistanis themselves, and I support what Prime Minister Clark said before about the importance of the democratic process there.
The key consideration equally for all of us as we observe future political developments in Pakistan is the impact this has on the continuing military campaign in Afghanistan where we have problems in terms of Al Qaeda, we have problems in terms of the Taliban, we have problems in terms of the porous nature of the border.
Therefore, a core concern for those of us engaged in Afghanistan is the future shape of the Government in Islamabad and the posture it will adopt in terms of cross-border cooperation with the Government in Kabul, and with those of us who are allies and friends of the United States engaged in military actions on the ground in what is a difficult, dangerous and bloody environment for our troops.
On the other question you raised, which is Australian domestic politics, I just say this to the Liberal Party.
If they are about to block this measure in the Senate, if the Liberal Party are about to put their hands up to maintain a tax exemption or a special tax treatment for this category of alcoholic drinks which is specifically targeted on young girls, then the question I want to know is what do they believe the binge drinking rate will become among young girls in the future once they take this action?
Thanks very much.
PM CLARK: Thank you everyone.