MITCHELL: The Prime Minister, Mr Rudd, good morning.
PM: Good morning, Neil. Thanks for having me on the program.
MITCHELL: Well thank you for your time. This idea that is going to the Summit of one stop childcare. It's not original, is it? It's pinched from the Blair Government?
PM: Oh, I don't think that any of these ideas are necessarily completely original. I mean, the world of ideas is kicking around out there. Who owns parentage of all of this?
MITCHELL: Is that where it came from, the Blair Government?
PM: No. I mean, there is a whole lot of people who have been talking and debating this. My interest and engagement in this started over the summer of 06-07. I read parts of a book by a guy called Heckman about the impact of early childhood development in various child care centres around the world. If you invest early in a young child's development, then the yield long term in terms of the productivity of that person's life is huge. That's where my interest started. It was the first policy we put out in Opposition in January last year.
MITCHELL: So were you aware of the ‘Sure Start Scheme' in the United Kingdom?
PM: Personally, no.
MITCHELL: You've got a former Blair adviser working for the Government, Tom Bentley. Has he had an involvement in it?
PM: I couldn't actually tell you on that. There is no great mystery in this. There is a thing called the internet. I mean, you're constantly looking for ideas from around the world. But, my commitment to early childhood education and how you do it better, as I've said, was triggered by discussions with people in the field way back at the beginning of last year. And there was a long policy document. The first one I released after I became Leader of the Opposition, in Melbourne in fact, in January last year, which goes through this. The key thing here is -
MITCHELL: So it went through this very idea?
PM: It went through part of this idea. Which is, how do you basically, it said, why is Australia coming stone motherless last in the investment of early childhood education across the OECD economies around the world? Secondly, here is what the scientific literature says, if you invest more early in a child's education the dividend later - great. And thirdly, what we've been debating since then is how to do this better.
MITCHELL: But does it go to this idea of the one-stop shop?
PM: Oh look, on that specific element, probably not.
MITCHELL: So are we looking here at an idea or a policy?
PM: A proposal. An idea and a proposal. The whole purpose of this Summit, Neil, is so that people can put forward ideas for the country's future.
When an idea can be debated on its merits, that is, is it something which adds to our overall national vision of building a stronger and more competitive economy in the future, enhancing our national security, making Australia fairer, a decent chance for Aboriginal Australians that is debated on its own terms. Then, against the merits if we decide to take it to the next stage, then you look at the detailed costing of proposals of ideas and then you look at how you might deliver it.
MITCHELL: But isn't a little different for a Prime Minister to be floating an idea. People look at that as policy and say, well, what's it going to cost? When's it going to work? How's it going to operate?
PM: No, I mean, you've got to look at how we're approaching this Summit itself. What I've said is that we need new ideas and new directions for the country. And the Summit itself promises to be in part, a new way in which we do Government in the country. I don't have the view that people who sit in Canberra as politicians, or the public servants who advise them, have a monopoly on wisdom. You've got to be able to have a way of sucking in ideas from the whole Australian community.
There's no perfect way of doing it. But my intention is to throw the doors of Government open, that's why it is going to be held here in Parliament House in Canberra, shake the tree, see what falls out.
And if we get a dozen or so good ideas for the future out of this, it'll be a weekend well spent.
MITCHELL: So do you think you'll have more Summits? Is that the plan? You say this is going to change the way Government is done. Will we have regular Summits?
PM: We'll see how this one goes. I mean, I think we should be open minded about all of this. If it works well, and produces good outcomes, then let's look at ways in which we can do this better into the future as well.
I think there's a great danger of simply closing the doors of the way in which Government works so that it becomes sort of a dialogue internally within itself.
MITCHELL: Isn't parliament supposed to do that? Isn't that the forum for the people, where our representatives do exactly this?
PM: Well, parliament is elected in the case of the Commonwealth Parliament, every three years. Most of the State Governments every four years. But you have one dip into the community, and that's it.
MITCHELL: But, I would have hoped that your Members of Parliament would be dipping into the community just about every day. And reflecting what we put to them into the parliament, and into the party room?
PM: And therefore you're saying that's an either/or. You either have MPs who are elected who do that, and that's it, or you have another way in which our Government can engage the community. But let's look at this through, across the Government, you can have at any given time, whether it's industry policy, social policy, health policy - there are a range of official or semi-official consultative mechanisms which exist. But, the problem is, you don't have, at present, a forum which says, ‘okay, here is the country, let's look to 2020, 10 or 12 years out, what sort of Australia do we want to be? How do you think we can get there? What are the best ideas for doing it?'
It's basically trying to get the nation to look beyond the trenches of the next three, six, nine months. We're constantly criticised, and I think legitimately, in politics, about being too short term. Here is a forum that's actually looking to the long term.
There's no guarantee of success with this. I actually think it is worth having a go.
MITCHELL: And if it works, you'd look at doing it again?
PM: Yep.
MITCHELL: Is there a 2020 label that has even been used by Blair's people?
PM: Oh, I'm sure it has. Who knows. I mean, 2020 is not the unique property of either the Australian Government or the Australian Labor Party. It's a year which happens in the future.
MITCHELL: What do you think of the idea from Julian Burnside, from Civil Liberties Victoria, he thinks politicians should be legally accountable, punished for not telling the truth.
PM: I haven't seen that one from Julian. But you know something, it doesn't surprise me.
MITCHELL: What do you think of it?
PM: Oh, I think all of us have an obligation in public life to be up front with people about what we can do and what we can't. And, I take seriously the whole question of the commitments you make to the Australian people. That's why we constantly get whacked by a number of people who are economic commentators about a determination to proceed with implementing tax cuts. I think you've got to maintain faith with the people. But I think holding us legally accountable in courts, well, that kind of takes it to an interesting new level.
MITCHELL: Just before we leave the child care thing, people like you and I, our children have had access to this sort thing. Even though it might not have been one stop, because that's the way we brought up our children. I was at an organisation last night called the Child Protection Society. They deal with kids at risk. And we were talking about this, Jenny Macklin was there. We were talking about it at some length. And they said, well, it's a good idea, but the real kids at risk are not part of it because they are not going to be taken there and we should be focussing on children at risk.
PM: Well, you know, you're right, there's a problem, and that is, real kids at risk, are their parents going to volunteer bringing them forward to centres such as this, which look at the whole spectrum of kids needs from identification of physical health problems, and of course, that would include the possibility of abuse, though to how you handle other childhood diseases, through to the basic skills of play based learning through to more formal, you know, pre schooling. That is the spectrum of services we want here. But you know something Neil, we cant. There is no silver bullet for every solution. Child protection services are really important nation wide and I think it is fair to say that as a nation we need to be doing better on that score as well.
MITCHELL: Will there be a communiqué at the end of the Summit?
PM: I haven't spoken at length with the co-chair of it on that particular point, that is Professor Davis, we are meeting later today. I think we would want to tell the nation where we think we have got to.
More importantly, and I have said this on the record before, and let me say it again, a talkfest is of no use in itself.
My commitment is, that for these ten national working groups which try and cover the big questions for Australia's future, that each of those will come forth with their major policy proposals.
Our undertaking as the Government of the nation, the elected Government of the nation, is by year's end to respond formally. What we can embrace, what we will therefore proceed to implement and the reasons why, and what we can't and the reasons why.
MITCHELL: Are there no go zones?
PM: Not really.
MITCHELL: What about the US alliance, is that up for debate?
PM: If people want to put their views forth on that, that is fine. I mean I am pretty relaxed about all that.
MITCHELL: Oh really, I had heard that the US alliance was not, was a no go zone, that's not right?
PM: Well I think if you start getting, well you know where my views are on that. I am rock solid on those questions. But if you start censoring these sort of gatherings in advance by saying you can't discuss this, you can't discuss that, I don't think that is terribly healthy.
You see, if you are going bring together a whole bunch of people from across the nation, I emphasise, who have been selected through the agency of a non-Government committee, then, if you want to get the best ideas possible out of a gathering such as this, and through the working groups which form part of this Summit, you have got to encourage people to speak their mind.
And some of the stuff which will be put forward, which we won't be able to support at all. Some of it will probably be right out there, way beyond that which the general community could tolerate.
But that's okay. But you are not going to get to a point of shaking the tree with the really good ideas which the community (inaudible) come with unless you start, if you start censoring stuff from the first minute.
MITCHELL: So will there be debate or will there be people putting their ideas, sit down, and somebody else puts their ideas?
PM: That'll be up to how each individual co-chair handles their ten working groups. I am not going to be in the business of saying, do it like this, do it like that.
I would assume that each of our co-chairs, which ranges from, Tim Fischer, Warwick Smith and David Morgan, they will conduct it as they see fit.
The idea is to encourage open debate. And some of them are going to have a fair bit of time. You got Saturday morning, Saturday afternoon, you have got Sunday morning and then we will draw all the threads together Sunday afternoon. So, fair bit of time.
MITCHELL: If there is to be a Communiqué, will you and Professor Davis write it between you I assume.
PM: I haven't got to that stage yet Neil, is the honest answer to that. I would much rather see what gets shaken out of the tree first before we start talking about final outcomes.
But on my commitment to respond to that, which emerges from the Summit, it is very clear cut. You will know by year's end what we can embrace and what we can't.
MITCHELL: What did the Jewish Summit come up with?
PM: Well they came up with some pretty good ideas and the reason for those, if you're listeners who aren't familiar why we did it separately, because this weekend is the Passover and many of our friends, therefore in the Jewish community are not able to participate in the Summit.
There were about seven sets of tables there. They came up with a range of proposals. There were some concerning what we do, for example, on the future of innovation, that is on innovation itself. Is it smart to see innovation in the future as somehow separate from, creativity applied to the arts? Innovation is seen historically as something which goes with sciences and technology. Are we dealing with, in fact, the same aspect of people's creativity and imagination and therefore do we need to do this better as a community. Practical proposal.
In the summer, they came up with this idea: should we be offering summer innovation school, say mid summer break for a week or so for kids to come to from across the country or in their localities, whereby innovation is taught.
Not a mainstream school curriculum, so it is best done in the summer so that whether you are into the creative arts, or whether you like sort of playing in a chemistry laboratory or whether you like designing new graphic games, you get them together and basically take kids to the next level.
MITCHELL: We need to take a break, I don't suppose you do the supermarket shopping any more do you?
PM: The honest answer is. No.
MITCHELL: When you did, did you have a green bag?
PM: Yeah and I am just trying to think where I would have got a green bag. Probably at the supermarkets that we -
MITCHELL: The plastic bag issue in a moment.
AD BREAK
MITCHELL: Prime Minister, the First Home Saver Accounts are under attack as being unfair, too complex, may not be available on time. A number of submissions to Treasury reported in the Sydney Morning Herald today. What is your response to that?
PM: Well we went to the election committed to implementing this. We were upfront about making sure that First Home Saver Accounts would be available to the public and we intent to proceed.
I mean, a lot of people are just finding it really hard to, save enough for their first home mortgage. It is complex to design, I agree with that. But, at present, there is no such scheme around.
MITCHELL: The argument has also being put into the submissions, according to the Sydney Morning Herald, that it in fact favours the wealthy.
PM: Well there will be some people who would argue that, but the reason we have called for submissions is to get the public input to this. I mean, it is part of being more open in the way in which you govern. We don't pretend to get everything right first chop and we are going to see what the public has got to say through these submissions and we will finalise the design.
MITCHELL: So you will still go ahead with it, one way or another?
PM: Yep, yep. We committed to doing it before the election. I believe in honouring your pre-election commitments.
MITCHELL: Plastic bags. Why is it I can drive an eight cylinder four wheel drive to the supermarket, drinking gas like a drunken sailor, and then I get penalised for using a plastic bag?
PM: Well, when you say penalised -
MITCHELL: 25 cents possibly.
PM: Well, as a Government, the Federal Government's position is that we are not imposing levies on the use of plastic bags -
MITCHELL: So you don't approve of the Victorian decision?
PM: That is a matter for what the State Governments around the country do. The State Governments around the country are doing things differently. The South Australian Government said they are pushing ahead with a ban as far as I understand it. The Queensland Government are heading in a similar direction, but some of the other states are doing it quite differently.
There are voluntary codes out there amongst the major retailers at present, and some of those voluntary codes have worked overall. There is a retailers code of practice, I understand, which I think between 2002 - 2005, according to them at least, has reduced the use of plastic bags by 50 per cent, but that still we have got a big problem on our hands.
MITCHELL: Paula, yes, go ahead Paula. Yes Paula
PAULA: Ah yes good morning, just a very simple question, I have noticed for quite a long time, the availability of biodegradable plastic bags that are given to me when I have done the shopping in some butchers, some greengrocers. Now I'm just wondering why on earth isn't that explored, we all want to
MITCHELL: Why aren't we using them. In fact we did an experiment of sticking them on the washing line and seeing how they degraded. Prime Minister?
PM: What happened to the washing line experiment?
MITCHELL: They degraded
PM: Ok.
MITCHELL: Ahead of the normal ones.
PM: Well we had a debate about this in fact in Cabinet the other day in Sydney and one of the things that we sent the Minister for Innovation away with, that's Kim Carr from Victoria, was to get further work done by the CSIRO in bringing the biodegradable technology to a point of conclusion. There's good progress so far but we still need to do more, but Biodegradable bags and use of green bags is obviously a big part of the future.
MITCHELL: The torch relay, more trouble in India overnight and I'm not clear here will the Chinese guards run with the torch or sit in the bus?
PM: My understanding is and here on relying upon advice from the Police is that the Chinese torch attendants will be play Zero role, Zero role in the provision of any security and my advice is that they will be in the bus unless they have to attend to the physical lighting or re-lighting of the flame.
MITCHELL: Will they be armed?
PM: So far as I am advised absolutely not. We're providing the security here. This is our country, we provide the security. End of story.
MITCHELL: Will we send our own security people to Beijing for the Olympics?
PM: On the security needs which apply to the Olympic Games themselves, I'd rather just take advice from our own Government authorities on that as well as the Australian Olympic Committee. Normally you depend on the security provided by the host Government.
MITCHELL: I'm sorry, so what does that mean, it's up to them?
PM: Well I think the practice would be if you went to the Sydney Olympics that we provided security for everybody who came to the Sydney Olympics. And I stand ready to be corrected on this, I don't have a brief with me at the moment but can I say that, that's normal process as I understand it for Olympic Games from way back when. We're having Olympics in Beijing which we've all signed up to then presumably the Chinese provide the security there, that would be normal.
MITCHELL: Budget looking tough still?
PM: Oh big challenge, I've spent time in the last few weeks talking to leaders in various parts of the world and we've got two big conflicting trends at the moment.
One is the roll out effect of the sub prime crisis on global financial markets which is in turn having an effect on the real economy around the world, which is causing economies in United States, Europe and in Asia to revise down their growth. That's happening on the one hand. And on the other hand you got emerging inflationary pressures. Not just here in Australia but elsewhere in the world as well.
Dealing with both those at the same time presents you with a unique set of problems. So yes, it's tough.
MITCHELL: Prime Minister last December you announced a new approach on organ donation, a new committee to be set up. We all know the importance of organ donation. Do you know whether that committee has met yet?
PM: Can't give you an answer to that Neil, but can I come back to your program on it? For me it's a big priority cause I'm actually, I am a beneficiary so....
MITCHELL: Yeah well of course. But I think we've got a problem, Australians Donate which was the former body has been shut down. They have got an empty office, phones are ringing, nobody is answering. I'm told the committee hasn't met yet.
PM:Well let me come back to you on that. I'd rather give you accurate information. But for me this is a big priority and getting it right. There's a lot of, shall I say, indication of voluntary effort from Australians on the one hand in terms of willingness to donate organs. On the other hand our actual retrieval rate is very, very low.
MITCHELL: Is that your advice, petrol could be $1.60 next week?
PM: No, I don't have such advice about the price of petrol next week but all I know is it's very high right around the country and this is having a huge effect on working families trying the balance the family budget. Which is why we've decided to have a go with the national Fuelwatch scheme.
MITCHELL: Now there was a lot of attention while you were away for the way your wife was dressed. Did that irritate you?
PM: Look you know if I'm the Prime Minister of the country, I'm elected to run the place. People can have whatever go they want at me, I'm open season, as you know. And you take the good with the bad and you grit your teeth on the way through.
You do start to wonder about when those nearest and dearest to you who haven't put up their hand for elected office become part of the debate and I might just leave it at that.
MITCHELL: Did it concern her?
PM: Oh I'm not going to go into how my wife feels about these things. But look, you know, this is the 21st Century, it's a modern Australia. Everyone is out there doing their own thing and Therese my wife we've been married for 25 years, she's run her own business, we've raised three kids, she's her own person.
The last time I looked she didn't put her hand up for elected office.
MITCHELL: Fair point. Some colleagues are saying you're working too hard. Are you getting a bit weary?
PM: Nah, I'm fine.
MITCHELL: That trip must have been hard work. You must have been very tired after that?
PM: No we all get tired. Do you get tired?
MITCHELL: Yeah but I don't think I work anywhere like the hours you do.
PM: Yeah but, you know if you take your job seriously, you know your going to work. I mean you don't get to become Prime Minister of the country every second day.
You know, it is something you have got to take seriously and I do. And I believe that our job is to work our guts out. We won't always get it right but my view is, if for example I'm out of the country representing Australia and I have got an opportunity to meet with heads of Government in the countries which really affect our future and I'll be seeing some of those, some other such countries later in the year.
But if I'm dealing with China, the Europeans, the European Union, the United Kingdom, the United States, and in the midst of the global financial crisis, well frankly, I think I've got to put the effort in and establish those working relationships and work with those heads of Governments about how we coordinate better.
MITCHELL: So if I can just quickly be rude, your mandarin was obviously very effective and very good but at times we had trouble with your English.
PM: Sorry about that. I'll seek to improve. Maybe I was tired.
MITCHELL: Thank you for your time
PM: Thanks Neil.