CHRIS SMITH:
Prime Minister, thank you for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, thanks Chris. Good to be with you.
CHRIS SMITH:
A lot of the criticism and I've got piles and piles of e-mails here saying $190 million doesn't sound like a lot, especially when you've staggered it. Why are we paying the second lot in March next year?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Chris, it is a lot of money and the farmers I've been dealing with really appreciate the concern and the support that we're providing.
What it's doing is, if you look at a family as a couple, the $12,000 will come in two payments, one in September one in March, that's providing additional cash that will be vitally important to them to keep food on the table, to keep paying their household expenses.
CHRIS SMITH:
Okay, I understand what it's for. Why do you stagger it into March though? When you consider that they probably haven't paid a power bill for a couple of terms and they may have other bills that are outstanding at the moment. They need the $12,000 right now don't they?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Chris, you can't generalise. I mean farmers are very enterprising, they're very innovative. There is a tendency to, at this time, to try to depict farmers as all being helpless in the face of the drought. I want to tell you that our farmers understand drought is part of the Australian climate. They're enterprising, they've prepared for it and they manage their way through very dry times.
This is an unprecedentedly long drought. It has worsened, it is in fact the worst since 1965, which very few people can remember.
CHRIS SMITH:
So surely there are situations required where that $12,000 should be dished out right now, pronto, straight away. Whether that be September in one lot, let it be September in one lot. There would be circumstances where they would need the entire lot first up.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Chris, I think you'll find that this is a very generous adjustment. This goes on top of the farm household allowance, which is as you know is equivalent to the NewStart allowance, we've extended it already from three years to four years. We’re now adding - for a couple - another $12,000 dollars to that and what it's designed to do together with all of the other measures we've put in place is to provide Australian farmers with the support they need to get through this very bad drought.
CHRIS SMITH:
Will Australia be giving any money to Indonesia because of the earthquake?
PRIME MINISTER:
We provide support to Indonesia through our Foreign Aid Program and we'll certainly provide support for-
CHRIS SMITH:
There will be additional support though, surely.
PRIME MINISTER:
We've got a large program to Indonesia and already we have aid materials in place in that part of the world. It's very important to provide, support humanitarian support in our region, Chris.
CHRIS SMITH:
Okay. So you'll give extra depending on what the country asks for? But you're not going to stagger any of that support. Whenever we have a tsunami or an earthquake in Asia anywhere, we’re first up saying “what do you need, we're there for you” and we throw money at them. We don't say you'll get the money in 12 months.
PRIME MINISTER:
Chris it's very important to understand the people that are getting the Farm Household Allowance are getting money every fortnight. Right? So they're getting money every fortnight, it's worth about $16,000. And so, what the additional money is, it’s an additional supplement on top of that. So they are getting a regular payment.
This is about 9,000 families at the moment. There are many more that are eligible and we're encouraging farmers who believe they may be eligible for it to contact a Rural Financial Councillor and if I can just give the number here?
CHRIS SMITH:
Yeah, sure.
PRIME MINISTER:
That’s 1800 686 175. That’s 1800 686 175.
CHRIS SMITH:
Some of that money is dedicated towards those counselling services?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh yes, sure. Well we've got over 130 people working on it because a lot of farmers – listen - a lot of farmers, just like it isn't always good to be your own lawyer it's often not a good idea to be your own accountant, and so people often self-assess and come up with the wrong answer. So we've got specialist Rural Financial Counsellors who are the best people to talk to. In the bush people are well aware that they're there.
But I just give that number out again 1800 686 175. Give them a call and they can very speedily navigate you through the details that are needed to see if you're eligible for the Farm Household Allowance.
CHRIS SMITH:
Are there any circumstances by which some farmers will receive $12,000 assistance and the second payment being in March next year - if they're still around by March next year - and all of a sudden they have to pay income tax on that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it's assessable income, but if you're operating a farm Chris at this time you're likely to have accumulated losses and so you're unlikely - it is assessable income - but you're unlikely to be in a position where you're going to be having a positive net income if you're in this area that will be taxable.
CHRIS SMITH:
Okay.
What about the money that we give per year to farmers outside of Australia? It adds up to something like $210 million to farmers overseas. And you just scratch your head and think to yourself, “surely our farmers deserve much more than that”.
PRIME MINISTER:
We provide a lot of support to Australian agriculture, it's a massive industry. But you've got to remember it is a business.
I tell you, talking to the farmers in the Narromine RSL on Saturday night - a number of them made the point - they said “please tell people in the city Malcolm, that we are not helpless, we're not sort of all broke. You know we are going through some tough times. We thank you for the support. We thank you for the support for the people who are doing it really, really hard. But believe us, we are capable, innovative, enterprising, courageous, hardworking business people who make tough business decisions.”
And you know this issue-
CHRIS SMITH:
But they also don't like asking for handouts. So maybe what they're telling you is only some part of the truth.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I know exactly what they were telling me Chris, because I was sitting with them.
CHRIS SMITH:
Okay, but they don't like putting their hands out for handouts, you know that. So they’re being very humble.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there are people, obviously, you're right.
There are more people that are eligible than actually ask for support under the Farm Household Allowance. That's one of the reasons why we've appointed the additional Rural Financial Counsellors. So it's easier for people to call up and have a confidential discussion and if they are eligible to be able to get it.
I mean my concern is to make sure that the resilience, the determination, the courage, the enterprise, the business sense of Australian farmers is supported so that they get through this drought - which is and I mean we are the land of droughts and flooding rains, we all know that poem but this is the worst one we've had for over 50 years.
CHRIS SMITH:
Have we moved too slow? I'm not talking about the public, the public has been incredibly generous and there are trucks moving up the Newell Highway right now to try and deliver everything from grain and water and all sorts of things.
PRIME MINISTER:
Can I just say-
CHRIS SMITH:
Has the Government acted slow?
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay well just on generosity. I want to thank all of your listeners for their generosity. But please if you're looking at providing support to farmers and battling farming communities please send cash. Send cash so that it can be spent in the local community. That's important.
CHRIS SMITH:
Have you moved too slow though? 99 per cent of New South Wales was in drought in the middle of March this year. It's now August.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no. Well I appreciate that. And look I'm very keenly aware of it. As you probably know, Luce and I have got cattle and sheep operations in the upper Hunter Valley and that's one of the hardest hit parts of the state. We’ve been living with this, handfeeding stock for a long time now. And you know battling with that question of how long do you hand feed before you sell, and you worry that if you sell and it rains you won't be able to afford to restock. Those are all diabolical questions and choices for people in the livestock business.
But the answer is we went out early in June to talk to communities about the drought. We increased the Farm Household Allowance then after that visit. We made a number of other changes to provide additional support for mental health services. We are constantly providing additional measures so we are, you know we're putting money into combating pest animals; enclosure fences are very important.
If you get out into western Queensland you'll find a lot of areas that used to be, used to be sheep country and it hasn't been for a long time now because of the dogs. So we've put in over $25 million to support dog proof fences in that part of the world and available elsewhere.
Can I just mention a really big reform and this is this is worth billions of dollars? What we did, we doubled the amount farmers could set aside from their taxable incomes, in good times obviously and put into farm management deposits, up to $800,000. And we've changed the law to allow them to be used as an offset against their mortgage. Do you know at June there's now a record $6.6 billion in more than 55,000 farm management deposit accounts across Australia.
CHRIS SMITH:
I didn’t know that.
PRIME MINISTER:
What that means is the farmer in a good year-
CHRIS SMITH:
Yeah.
PRIME MINISTER:
Everyone, they have good years. So they can take that money, it's a tax deduction, put it in the farm management deposit and then when you get a bad year, like the one at the moment, you can draw that out and of course because you're not making money on your operation you're going to be paying a lower rate of tax. So it's a very - that was a very good way to support farmers.
CHRIS SMITH:
Excellent facility. Excellent facility.
PRIME MINISTER:
That’s some of the things we've done, you know.
CHRIS SMITH:
I didn’t know so many people jumped onto it.
PRIME MINISTER:
It’s a lot of money.
CHRIS SMITH:
I want to ask you two quick questions.
What about the use of resources within the military? A lot of people have been calling, I've got three people on the board now saying “why don't we get some water out there, why are we relying on private enterprise and private truckies and tankers to get water out to the west? Why aren’t we saying ‘hey listen we've got trucks with the tankers and the military. Let's move it.’
I heard Marise Payne with Alan last week say, “oh the states have to ask us.” Gee it sounded like a classic political red tape answer.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, do you really want to put all the private truckies out of business? Let's be frank. You've got to remember, everyone's trying to make a quid. There are truck drivers with families to support too.
But just in terms of water; let me just make this point to you. Carting water for stock is something you would only do in the absolute most extreme circumstances. You can't, you literally cannot cart enough water for stock other than for a very, very short period. So carting water, you're basically talking about local governments getting water out to farm families, homesteads where the rainwater tank has run out of water. I was discussing that with the Deputy Mayor of Narromine when I was out there a couple of days ago. We stayed in close touch about that. I've been talking to Niall Blair, the Agriculture Minister about that here in NSW, and of course my Ministers, David Littleproud, Michael McCormack, the DPM, are onto that as well.
We don't yet have the town water shortage problem at the scale it was in 2006/07 when there were a number of towns on the Murray, in the Murray Darling Basin that were, people feared were going to run out of water. So we haven't yet reached that point, but it's obviously something we're monitoring closely.
But because of that drought there were a number of towns – I mean Goulburn’s a good example where there were additional water infrastructure built - there was new pipeline built to Goulburn, you may recall during that drought.
So we have got more urban and small town water supply infrastructure in. But in terms of a homestead, you know if you're 20,000 gallon rainwater tank has run out then getting help from the local shire to ship some water out to fill it is going to be very important.
But again, we'll work closely with the states and local government to ensure that they're able to do that.
CHRIS SMITH:
You talk about future, futuristic things and technology and looking ahead quite often, and you have done for the past three years and gone to factories where they're making big breakthroughs in scientific developments etcetera. It's almost as if though we've sort of forgotten about trying to drought proof the farmer because it's too hard.
PRIME MINISTER:
I don’t think that’s right.
CHRIS SMITH:
Are we doing enough to try and reduce the impact of a drought into the future?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look Chris, you've got, you've got a divide between irrigated country and dry land farming. So if you're in an irrigation area then obviously you've got to make sure that water is available, that's why you need to have good dams, you need to make sure you use the water efficiently, with subsoil dripper tape for example, if you are growing cotton rather than flood irrigating a field and you lose a lot with the evaporation.
If you're talking about dry land farming, whether it is cropping or grazing. Clearly, you're dependent on the water for your pastures and for your growth, the water you get from the air. Now you can be in a position and you know we are in the Hunter, where we've got bore water on one place, which is very reliable and so the stock have got enough to drink. But the problem is they haven't had anything to eat other than the hay and cotton seed and so forth that we've given them for a long time now. So if you run out of drinking water, water for stock to drink then you are in diabolical trouble.
I think in terms of getting more water, you know ensuring that you've got stronger pastures you've got to look at grasses that are more - as the climate is getting warmer, there’s no doubt about that - you've got to look at grasses that are perhaps in more temperate parts of New South Wales for example that are more tropical.
CHRIS SMITH:
Is enough of that being done?
PRIME MINISTER:
You know, people in the cities have a romantic view of the bush, which is that it's all very old fashioned and you know it's something out of a Banjo Patterson poem. Farmers are smart. They are hardworking, they are very innovative.
I was with some young farmers, again most recently in Narromine. They are absolutely on the ball. You could not find more strong-willed, good, innovative business people anywhere in Australia. So don't ever think that the innovation in the technology is only limited to people in black t-shirts in laboratories and web based businesses in the city. Our farmers are right on the ball and they're using–
Look, in every area, I mean have you ever looked at a fence in the bush in recent times? Look at the technology that's used to build a fence nowadays, you don't have to go and cut out strainer posts and you know grapple with them with the posthole digger and crowbar.
I mean, every area of farming technology is improving all the time.
But we do have this problem that we've got a very volatile climate and it's getting more so is certainly what it appears.
CHRIS SMITH:
Okay I thank you, you’ve given us more than you needed to.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thanks a lot Chris. Good on you, okay bye.