NEIL MITCHELL:
Prime Minister Turnbull, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Neil, great to be with you.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Thank you for your time. The figures today prove the welfare problem; more than 43,000 Australians are getting $45,000 tax free from welfare. Now the minimum take home pay on the average wage is $39,500. So you get more for not working than you get for working. What are you going to do about it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well this is what Christian Porter the Social Services Minister is looking at very closely. We’ve got to ensure that the welfare system provides a generous safety net that is a critical element in our fair society. But it also needs to be – to work in a way that encourages people and provides incentives not disincentives for people to work.
NEIL MITCHELL:
But you agree this is ridiculous, that you can get more for not going to work than you do for going to work?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you can – again there may be specific cases Neil but -
NEIL MITCHELL:
There’s 43,000 of them according to the – 43,200 people are getting more than $45,000 tax free.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes well I’m aware of those reports and this is why we’re looking at it very closely. You know we’re dealing with people’s lives here. We’ve got to ensure that we’re providing the right level of support. We are doing so in a fair and compassionate way but equally that Australia’s welfare system is providing incentives for people to work because the best form of social welfare is a job.
NEIL MITCHELL:
But you agree with the principle – you should not be paid more on welfare than you’re paid to go to work?
PRIME MINISTER:
I agree with the principle that the welfare system should always encourage people to get into employment.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Yeah, well – and you shouldn’t get more on welfare than you do for going to work. I mean the principle here is: ‘Look, I’m better off staying home.’
PRIME MINISTER:
It should always be - the system should always work so as to incentivise people to go into employment. There is no question about that. That is the goal of it.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Prime Minister, this is almost related – paid parental leave – just what do you want to achieve here? We are aware that you're in negotiations with the crossbenchers and the Senate and the rest of it. Describe to me the paid parental leave system you want?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well what we are seeking to do is to get, is to have a fair balance. This is a long standing policy. Our commitment is to ensure that we provide an 18 week safety net for mothers and indeed fathers who do not have access to paid parental leave from their employer.
NEIL MITCHELL:
So what if I get 12 weeks paid parental leave - and the ABC does better than this - if I get 12 weeks paid parental leave from my employer, what do you give me?
PRIME MINISTER:
You would get 6 weeks at the minimum wage, from the Government.
NEIL MITCHELL:
So we get a total of 18 weeks?
PRIME MINISTER:
That’s right – you get a total of 18 weeks and that is the objective. It is simply, it’s an equitable, a fair use of government resources. There is no criticism of anybody here, it is just a question of ensuring that we apply government resources in a way which are limited - in a way that is fair and provides again that safety net, that is important.
NEIL MITCHELL:
And when do you want it to cut in? The debate is about when you start. Now when do you want -
PRIME MINISTER:
That is right. The different crossbench senators have expressed different views as to when it should start and we’ll obviously be discussing that with them. I mean, we don’t have a majority in the Senate as we know and in order to secure the passage of legislation we have to reach agreement with the crossbench.
NEIL MITCHELL:
So will you rule out January 1st or is it still a possibility?
PRIME MINISTER:
Neil, that is our policy – of course it is a possibility but we have to deal with - we have to negotiate with the cross bench senators and we’ll - that’s our job, that is the task of the Government in the 45th Parliament.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Prime Minister, Kerry Stokes told me this week Clause 18C, the Racial Discrimination Act is the greatest threat to free speech he’s seen in 50 years. Former Deputy Prime Minister John Anderson is saying similar things today - says it is an insult to Aboriginal women. Will you repeal 18c?
PRIME MINISTER:
We have no plans to amend Section 18c.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Why?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we simply, it was a matter that was - the history of it as you know was that the Coalition took a proposal to mandate 18c to the election in 2013. A proposal was produced, then PM Abbott withdrew the proposal and said the matter was not going to be progressed and he explained why and nothing has changed since then. We did not take an 18c amendment proposal to the election in this year in 2016.
NEIL MITCHELL:
But you’re not bound clearly by what Tony Abbott did. Why wouldn’t you review it yourself?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh no, no – let me tell you. Senator Dean Smith of Western Australia has proposed that this issue which is a, it is a very contentious one and you have a lot of people in many respects speaking at cross purposes because amending, you can talk about amending 18c – the real issue is how do you amend it?
NEIL MITCHELL:
Well true, how do we amend it? What’s the answer? I mean it’s clearly not working adequately now is it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the answer, the answers differ but let me just go on. So Senator Smith has recommended that the issue should be considered by a parliamentary committee presumably the Human Rights Committee which is a joint committee – that’s a recommendation that he has made and the Government is considering it.
There is a - I can see he’s made the argument and I think it is a reasonable one that there should be an open, if you like, calm, cool discussion of the issues relating to this. I mean, there is a –
NEIL MITCHELL:
Well, is it working? I mean, to come back a step, is 18c working as it should?
PRIME MINISTER:
There has been a lot of controversy about some applications of it, or some applications being brought.
NEIL MITCHELL:
What’s your view?
PRIME MINISTER:
I’m not going to comment on a particular case Neil, that is under consideration by the Human Rights Commission. But I think the point is that it is a contentious area. It’s one that where you need to understand – well, the questions are these; should there be a prohibition against insulting or offending somebody? Is that too low a bar? There has been criticism from senior members of the legal profession –
NEIL MITCHELL:
So what’s your view of that? I mean we’re not talking about the individual case, although by the way your Race Discrimination Commissioner didn’t seem too concerned about prejudging, Tim Soutphommasane. Were you concerned by that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Neil, again, I’m not going to buy into the specifics of the case that he was talking about.
NEIL MITCHELL:
This is the Bill Leak case.
PRIME MINISTER:
It is a matter that I think needs to have a calm discussion. Let’s be clear, we live in the most successful multicultural society in the world.
NEIL MITCHELL:
But we also have a history of free speech, Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
We do.
NEIL MITCHELL:
You’ve got Kerry Stokes, your own former Deputy Prime Minister John Anderson, effectively saying this is a threat to democracy, a threat to free speech.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes he’s entitled to that view and I’m not arguing with him. What I’m saying is that this is a very legitimate area of discussion. I think the question mark has always been over the use of the words insult and offend. There was a strong momentum, I believe, to remove those some time ago. That was put to one side by my predecessor and the issue has been revived, particularly in the context of a couple of cases. I think the argument that Senator Smith makes is a fair one and the Government will be considering it.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Okay so is the bar too low?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that is the crux, I mean nobody is suggesting that we should have any tolerance for hate speech or language that promotes racial hatred, or anything of that kind. As I said, you’ve got to remember we are the most successful multicultural society in the world and that is built on a foundation of mutual respect. That’s something we cherish.
NEIL MITCHELL:
I think the cartoonist Bill Leak once painted your portrait. What sort of bloke is he?
PRIME MINISTER:
Bill is a very engaging guy, he writes as colourfully and powerfully as he paints. He told me a fantastic story about painting the portraits, simultaneously of Bob Hawke and Bill Hayden, their official portraits. When each of them came in for their sitting, would comment not very generously, on the developing portrait of the other. So you should get Bill on - I won’t spoil his story - you should get him on the radio and get him to tell you, it’s hilarious.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Is he a racist?
PRIME MINISTER:
Of course not. No look, he’s an Australian; he’s a cartoonist; he’s you know, a controversialist. That’s what he does but he’s a very colourful, passionate Australian of enormous artistic ability.
NEIL MITCHELL:
I just point out his cartoon was about parental responsibility in the Aboriginal community. A report to the Victorian Parliament this week showed that 20 per cent of children in out of home care are Aboriginal, one per cent of the population are Aboriginal. I think Bill Leak might have nailed it.
PRIME MINISTER:
It’s about three per cent actually, are Aboriginal.
NEIL MITCHELL:
In Victoria it’s one percent.
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh one per cent, okay, in Victoria .
NEIL MITCHELL:
Speaking of such things, is George Brandis a dickhead?
PRIME MINISTER:
[Laughter] Well.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Well Warren Mundine, your top adviser, says – well, he’s aiming at George Brandis – says: “You’re a dickhead to go ahead with an inquiry into Indigenous imprisonment”.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well here’s the thing, there is about three per cent of Australians identify as Aboriginal or Torres Strait islanders. They represent 25 per cent of the prison population. The high rate of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander incarceration is an enormous problem. It is something that we are addressing. I am taking a report on that and some recommendations for action to COAG later in the year. A big part of this is going to be getting employment services to address, to engage with Indigenous Australians while they’re in prison so when they leave they’ve got a better chance of going into work. The key –
NEIL MITCHELL:
Warren Mundine says we know the answers and we don’t need another inquiry.
PRIME MINISTER:
Look there are many answers, you know one of the great mistakes – and I don’t want to buy into an argument with Warren – but there are no silver bullets here. It’s a complex issue. A huge part of it is employment, it gets back to that point we were discussing about social welfare. You know if people are in employment then they are much less likely to get involved in problems with the law or ending up in jail. But having the Australian Law Reform Commission to look at the legal aspects of this is something that’s been recommended by the Law Council and it’s been welcomed by just about everybody except for Warren. On this occasion he may be wrong. He should reflect on that.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Some talking points that have leaked from within the Government suggest that you’re at war with Tony Abbott – are you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Of course not.
NEIL MITCHELL:
How are relations with Tony Abbott?
PRIME MINISTER:
They are cordial.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Not friendly?
PRIME MINISTER:
[Laughter] Cordial means friendly.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Have you spoken to him recently?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I have. Yes.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Can you patch up the problems with him?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, look we have, I have a cordial relationship with Tony Abbott and that’s, you know that is as I do with all of my colleagues frankly.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Well it’s a bit different when you’re having a go at each other in the Parliament. That doesn’t happen with your colleagues too often?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don’t agree with the premise of what you just put to me.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Its 100 days since you were sworn in but your poll figures are still bad. You used those as part of your argument to replace Tony Abbott. When does that logic apply to you?
PRIME MINISTER:
I’m not going to be distracted from the job of governing, of leading, of delivering and what we have been doing since the election is getting on with the job of implementing and delivering our national economic plan. That’s what I’ve been up here in Queensland talking about this week whether it is water infrastructure in Rockhampton, whether it is telecoms infrastructure in Western Queensland in Winton and in Birdsville – you know if you look at over the past fortnight we’ve passed through the House the bills to restore the ABCC –
NEIL MITCHELL:
So is it not getting through to the public? Is that the problem?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Neil, I’m sure that you’ve talked about the success of the Government in amending the Fair Work Act to protect the 60,000 volunteers of the Country Fire Authority.
NEIL MITCHELL:
We have discussed that.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yep – well that is one of things that we’ve done.
NEIL MITCHELL:
But the public doesn’t understand?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Neil, I am sure the public have a very keen understanding of the fact that the Government is getting on with the job, we are opening up free trade opportunities with the big, with the new deal with Singapore following on the deals with China and Korea and Japan. We’ve delivered the tax cuts for middle income Australians so that half a million Australians don’t move into the second highest top, second highest tax bracket. You know, we’ve secured more than $11 billion in deficit reduction since the election so we are getting on with the job.
NEIL MITCHELL:
To something else – you said that times the mess and the Census that heads would roll – anybody close to being lopped?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the matter is, we’ve got a report on it and it is quite clear that this was a failure by IBM to deliver on their contractual commitments and that is clear. They had a contractual obligation to proof the ABS website which they were managing from this type of denial of service attack and what occurred was not a massive attack or an unprecedented attack, it was highly expected. So all of the accountability within ABS is obviously being now subject to further investigation.
NEIL MITCHELL:
So no heads are about to roll yet?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look I don’t want to forecast personnel changes but obviously there are consequences for this.
You know, when - but in this case I have to say it is clear, and I am not passing the buck here, it is a fact, it’s been thoroughly investigated. It is very clear that the fault was on the part of IBM which was contracted to manage and operate the website and they had an obligation to protect it against denial of service attacks and the measures that they had agreed to put in place, they hadn’t and they didn’t work and that’s why you had the problems that occurred. And there are a number of other failures but fundamentally that is the reason for the problem.
NEIL MITCHELL:
What would you do to a minister who used his car and limo and driver to transport his dogs around the state?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, it’s extraordinary. I am amazed that he is still there but it seems an extraordinary thing to do and you know we have to remember that these resources that are available to us as politicians are for work. They are not for transporting dogs or anything else, you know, they are there for work.
I mean, if you think about it, if you were, if you had use of a - I’m sure there is plenty of people listening who have a taxi account with their employer so that they can get around and do their business and go from meeting to meeting or see clients or whatever - I don’t think their employers would be very pleased if they were using that to shuffle their pets around so really the principle is exactly the same.
NEIL MITCHELL:
I’ve been in journalism for about 40 years and not once has the boss paid my babysitting fees – should we be paying Joe Hockey’s?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don’t want to buy into that one because I am not - I have read some reports of that and I’ll talk to the Foreign Minister about it.
The reports may not be entirely accurate but as far as dogs in Government cars are concerned I think that those cars are designed to move, you know, government officials and ministers around, not people’s pets.
NEIL MITCHELL:
What’s your dog’s name? We used to see it a lot walking with you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Our dogs sadly have all gone to dog heaven.
NEIL MITCHELL:
All gone. Oh.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah old Rusty was the oldest one and he was the wonderful red cattle dog. We have a beautiful sketch of Rusty in our, Lucy and I, in our bedroom in Canberra actually. He’s very sadly missed but that’s what happens to old dogs – they pass away.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Thank you very much for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thanks so much.
-Ends-