FRAN KELLY:
The Prime Minister joins us now from sunny Broken Hill this morning where he’ll be visiting a sheep station.
Prime Minister, good morning, welcome to Breakfast.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Fran.
FRAN KELLY:
You’ve been out looking at the effects of the drought and notwithstanding that heavy and very welcome rain on the weekend I’m sure, what were your impressions of what you saw? Was it worse than you thought it would be?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well these are very good people who are doing it tough and many of them have been doing it tough on and off for quite a few years now. We’ve had virtually no rain in Burke since the 2012 flood and prior to that, there were a couple of very wet years preceded by seven or eight very, very dry years. So, these have been tough times for the farmers of that particular region and that’s a common experience right up and down the west of Queensland and New South Wales. This is much more akin to a natural disaster than it is to an ordinary business downturn or bad patch and that’s why it’s important that the Government respond appropriately and swiftly - and in a week or so that’s exactly what will happen.
FRAN KELLY:
Ok, well you brought the rain with you to Longreach anyway, what else did the farmers tell you they needed from you right now?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it’s interesting you always, Fran, get more when you sit down and talk to people than you get from the briefing notes and while I was conscious, from the briefing notes, that wild dogs have been a problem in significant parts of country Australia, they’re absolutely devastating the sheep industry of Queensland and they’re quite a serious problem in northern New South Wales as well. I’d learnt some years ago on my Pollie Pedal bike ride that wild dogs were a difficulty in the high country of Victoria, but I now discover that this is a much more widespread problem. And much as we love our kangaroos – they’re on our coat of arms, they’re in a sense a national symbol – at times like this in very large numbers, the kangaroos are a real difficulty because they’re eating the feed that would otherwise be going to the sheep or cattle.
These are practical problems where well-meaning environmental rules can cause enormous difficulties in very tough times and that’s on top of the ordinary kinds of measures that government are expected to come up with in times of natural disaster.
FRAN KELLY:
Well let’s go, you keep saying that this is akin to a natural disaster this drought and I suppose that’s what a drought is – it’s a natural disaster. Last week we spoke to a long time Longreach farmer, Sam Coxon, who has you know, been on the land a long, long time, said crunch time is coming. He said what they and others need immediately is money to live day by day. So, does that mean – and I know that’s something you’ve heard there too – disaster relief payments really, just as they might get if they were trying to cope with bushfires or floods? Will farmers be immediately eligible now for income support payments?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that’s one of the measures that we are looking at very seriously. This was part of the former government’s new deal on drought which was negotiated with the states in the first half of last year and I’ve earlier talked about bringing forward the start of that from the first of July to the first of March, and that’s something that we’re looking at urgently because the people in question, they have no income because their crops have failed and their cattle, in many cases, are too weak to sell. So they’ve got no income, they can’t leave the farm because you can’t lock up a farm like you can lock up a shop. They can’t leave, they can’t sell the farm because you’d be selling on to a very depressed market and they can’t borrow. And if you can’t leave, you can’t sell and you can’t borrow, you’ve got no income. Plainly you do need support and this is where the ordinary income support system should be available to people.
FRAN KELLY:
And that’s the situation right now, as I’m sure all the people you talk to are telling you. I know when you’re finished at Broken Hill this morning you’re heading back to a Cabinet meeting - will you take at least that policy to that Cabinet meeting to be signed off on immediately? Why wait to next week to start rolling out the income support payments?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, what I won’t be doing, Fran, is foreshadowing discussion that may or may not be in this Cabinet or the next Cabinet or the Cabinet after that, but…
FRAN KELLY:
But the need is urgent, isn’t it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Indeed it is – indeed it is. And that’s why we are looking at very significantly bringing forward the sort of system that the former government said should start on the 1st July, because if the need is now, the change should be as quickly as we can manage it. But Fran look, it’s not going to be my practice to talk about what might be discussed in Cabinet today or any other day.
FRAN KELLY:
Well I just know there’s a lot of farmers around the country who listen to RN Breakfast every morning and I know they’ll be wanting to get some idea of what you’re going to do, whether it’s this week or next week and one issue they’ve been talking about to us is the government backed concessional loans that are available to primary producers through the Farm Finance Scheme, but one thing farmers are talking about is the reintroduction of interest rate subsidies. Now that’s not in that Labor package I don’t think. Interest rate subsidies were scrapped by the former government in 2012. Are you considering re-introducing interest rate subsidies? Do you see any benefit to that?
PRIME MINISTER:
What we need is, we need money for people to live on now and we need support for them to get their farms back on their feet and what we need to understand is the difference between something that is in the ordinary course of business and something which is appropriately a response to a natural disaster and I think you can draw significant distinctions between them and what we’re on about is a package of assistance which is appropriate and suitable for people who have been hit by what is akin to a natural disaster.
FRAN KELLY:
So, I know you don’t want to be specific about timing, but how soon will farmers hear what you’re going to do to help?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think we can expect some significant announcements in the next week or so, because the problem is now and that’s why we’ve got to move as quickly as we reasonably can.
FRAN KELLY:
It’s twenty to nine on Breakfast, our guest this morning is Prime Minister Tony Abbott. He’s joining us from Broken Hill this morning where he’s heading out to another station to look at the impact of the drought on our farmers.
Prime Minister, overnight reports of a major disturbance on Manus Island – fires lit, riot squad called in, people breaking out – reportedly asylum seekers were angry at suggestions they might not be resettled in PNG, even if they’re assessed and processed and found to be genuine refugees. What is the plan for these detainees; that the ultimately live their lives in PNG or somewhere else?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Fran, the plan is to stop the boats. That’s the plan and the boats are stopping; it’s almost 60 days since we had the last illegal boat arrive in Australia. As long as we have these illegal boats coming, we will have people in immigration detention. The alternative is to say anyone who gets to Australia can stay here and very soon we wouldn’t have people coming at the rate of 50,000 a year as we were in July of last year under the former government, but we’d have numbers exploding even beyond that. So…
FRAN KELLY:
I understand, but there’s 1,100 people in Manus Island in detention. When the original solution of PNG was put forward by former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, the plan was these detainees would apparently be resettled in Papua New Guinea. Is that still the plan as you understand it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that is still very much available and Prime Minister Peter O’Neill has reassured me repeatedly that the same deal that was on offer to the former government remains on offer and my understanding is that there has been no such information given to people that they’ll never be resettled in PNG. But Fran, I just want to make the point that the only way to avoid this kind of thing is to stop the boats; we are stopping the boats, we will stop the boats, we must stop the boats.
And the other thing I’ve got to say is that if you don’t want to be in immigration detention, don’t come illegally to Australia. And this is the problem, I mean, it’s impossible not to feel sorry for people who want a better life and who are living in a horrible country and I guess it’s good that they think Australia is a beacon. We are a beacon – a beacon of freedom and decency and generosity – but we cannot allow people to take advantage of our generosity in this way. If they’re going to come to Australia, they should come through the proper channels and not through the back door.
FRAN KELLY:
Sure, but we also can’t just accept there’s 1,100 people dumped in a detention centre on PNG and think they’ll be left there, can we?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, they’re being assessed by the PNG authorities and with Australian assistance; obviously we’re running the camp. People are being treated humanely while they’re in the camp. As I said, if you come to Australia illegally by boat, this is, I’m afraid, what happens to you and as far as this Government is concerned, the way is shut. Don’t get on a boat; you’ll never get to Australia.
FRAN KELLY:
Talking about stopping the boats, Indonesia’s Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa is going to raise Australia’s border protection policy with the US Secretary of State John Kerry today, who’s visiting that country and the Foreign Minister says returning asylum seekers to Indonesia on lifeboats, which is what has been Australia’s policy apparently, is against the values of humanity. Are you embarrassed by this being raised with John Kerry?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, look I’m thrilled that America and Indonesia can have a candid discussion and obviously what they talk about is entirely up to them. But, I’m just pleased that the policies that we committed to pre-election are being put in place and they are working and the boats are stopping and…
FRAN KELLY:
I know you’re pleased, but clearly the Foreign Minister of Indonesia is not pleased. He says that sending asylum seekers back in lifeboats is an escalation of the problem and not helping at all in creating a situation conducive for a discussion on the code of conduct between Indonesia and Australia. Is this getting in the way, how’s that code of conduct progressing?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it’s progressing slowly. I’d like it to progress much faster. Australia has a strong relationship with Indonesia. It’s a very, very important relationship. I’ve had numerous discussions over the years with Marty Natalegawa who I think is a good friend of Australia. Certainly President Yudhoyono has been a very good friend of Australia as well as being a great President of Indonesia, and I am confident that our relationship is going to go from strength to strength.
FRAN KELLY:
Getting in the way of the relationship – and that’s why the code of conduct is being considered and reviewed- some of these revelations coming through the emails being leaked by Edward Snowden, more reports this weekend of Australia spying on Indonesia- in this case eavesdropping on an American legal firm discussing with Indonesia their tactics for trade talks with America and then offering to share that information with the US National Security Agency. Have you given Indonesia any assurances about these reports?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well what I don’t do, Fran, is talk publically about allegations of this nature and we don’t comment on security matters – on intelligence matters – except to say that Australia does need to have a strong intelligence operation. Australian intelligence has been instrumental in the prevention of numerous terrorist attacks, including terrorist attacks in Indonesia. We have very good intelligence and security cooperation with Indonesia and that’s going to continue and I think…
FRAN KELLY:
It’s not going to be damaged by these leaks?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look, if organisations like the Australian National Broadcaster wants to dwell on them…
FRAN KELLY:
This was the New York Times I think that leaked this one.
PRIME MINISTER:
… And look, if the media wants to talk constantly about this kind of thing, inevitably it will dominate conversations and I guess unhelpfully dominate conversations. And look, I’m not being critical of the media, I suppose it’s your job maybe to dwell on these difficult things, but my job is to try to get us talking about the strengths, not the weaknesses, and we have a strong intelligence cooperation with Indonesia. It’s important for both our countries. As far as I am concerned, it will continue and no intelligence that Australia gathers is ever used except to help our friends and neighbours.
FRAN KELLY:
Just on that, because that’s what you said when you were asked about this yesterday too, but I notice that the leaked memo form the Australian Signals Directorate was said quote, “were able to continue to cover the talks providing highly useful intelligence for interested US customers.” That suggests that the information we were gathering was being used by commercial clients in America.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, you’re assuming that these things are correct and I don’t comment on this kind of allegation, but the fact is, we don’t collect intelligence for commercial purposes. We collect intelligence to save Australian lives, to save the lives of other people, to promote Australian values, to promote the universal decencies of humanity and to help our friends and neighbours, including Indonesia. And as I said, our intelligence has been instrumental in preventing many terrorist attacks in Indonesia and elsewhere.
FRAN KELLY:
Prime Minister, I know you’ve got to get back on the drought trail, can I just ask you briefly that re: Qantas, it looks as though the Government will give some sort of debt guarantee to Qantas. Virgin says anything Qantas gets, they should get too. Will you do the same for Virgin?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the point I’ve made is that first that Qantas is competing with one hand tied behind its back because of the various restrictions placed on it by the legislation under which it was privatised some years ago and if the Labor Party is serious about helping Qantas not just to survive but to flourish, it should be prepared to look at that legislation again; that’s the first point I make. The second point I make is that no one gets a free ride on the taxpayer, Fran, and there won’t be a free ride on the taxpayer for anyone.
FRAN KELLY:
Prime Minister Tony Abbott, thank you so much for joining us on Breakfast.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you so much.
[ends]