Subjects: Ministerial reshuffle; GST; protection of native animals.
E&OE……………………………………………………………………………………
CARROLL:
Prime Minister, thank you for making yourself available to our listeners.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good to be with you Andrew.
CARROLL:
You can talk to the Prime Minister by the way on 1300 360612. But first Prime Minister last night Kim Beazley described Ryan as a miasma of rorts and I had to look that up in the dictionary and it’s not quite as unwholesome as boondoggle but it’s still unwholesome isn’t it?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I don’t think it’s unwholesome, but Ryan is a seat the Government has held, the Liberal Party has held since 1949. But can I just say to any people in the electorate of Ryan who may be listening to me this morning that I don’t take it’s retention by the Liberal Party for granted. There’ll be a very vigorous contest for Liberal preselection, as there should be. Because whoever wins the preselection has of course a very good chance of winning the seat and if he or she works hard a good chance of remaining in Parliament and perhaps ultimately becoming a Minister for a considerable period of time. So it’s a very important political prize. I remember when there was a by-election in a seat in NSW many years ago there were 33 candidates in a comparable seat as far as Liberal strength was concerned, so there’s nothing unusual about having a vigorous contest in a safe seat.
CARROLL:
You call it vigorous, Con Galtos the Director of the Liberal Party up here calls it vigorous but in fact we do have a seat where that has been stacked.
PRIME MINISTER:
Andrew, there’s nothing illegal or wrong with people recruiting members to a political party there’s a difference though when you break the law and you commit a crime. You have to understand that the Queensland roll rorting saga that’s been going on now for some months and has been before the Shepherdson inquiry, that all began when somebody in the Labor Party in north Queensland was convicted of a crime. It is not a crime to vigorously enrol people in a political party whether it be the Labor Party or the Liberal Party. Let’s not try to draw a parallel between that and what is occurring – what occurred in north Queensland. The Party will choose a candidate. I don’t know who that candidate will be but as I say I don’t take it for granted and I’ll be campaigning in Ryan when the by-election is appointed and I’ll be asking the people of Ryan to support the Liberal Party candidate. I don’t have any complacent or smug view about the outcome. Politics is always a bit unpredictable these days you can never predict exactly what’s going to happen and I won’t be bringing any sense of complacency or ‘she’ll be right’, ‘take it for granted’ attitude to the by-election.
CARROLL:
I understand you’ve chosen your language carefully on this and we do have a full board of calls by the way and I’m sure they want to discuss with you things other than Ryan. But it must be worrying to you that you’ve got 400 Liberal Members signed up by Michael Johnson, many of whom are living overseas in places like Edinburgh, in Hong Kong and in the Philippines.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don’t know how many, I’ve heard stories of that. I understand that people have been enrolled in accordance with the party’s constitution.
CARROLL:
And that’s all you’ve got to say on Ryan?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there’s no suggestion that anybody has behaved illegally.
CARROLL:
No, no, nobody has been suggesting that….
PRIME MINISTER:
I think some people have actually. I think there’s been a bit of an attempt made by Mr Beazley and others to say oh look, ‘you know six of one a half a dozen of the other in Queensland’, you’ve got all these additional members in Ryan and then of course you’ve got the illegal behaviour in north Queensland on the Labor Party side. So I just think we make the point that there is a difference.
CARROLL:
This is the very thing, isn’t it Prime Minister that you were hoping to avoid so early in the New Year.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I never avoid a vigorous preselection contest – never. When I was preselected for the seat of Bennelong in December of 1973, I had 22 opponents and I worked very hard to win that preselection. There’s not a man or a woman who holds a seat on either side of Parliament which is relatively safe or secure - I suppose if you hold a seat for 26 years it must have a certain degree of safety - that doesn’t work very hard to win. I think we have to be very careful that we separate the wheat from the chaff here and you don’t confuse illegal criminal behaviour with vigorous competition inside a political party. I don’t regard vigorous competition for Labor preselection as being in any way illegal or improper.
CARROLL:
All right Prime Minister lets go to our callers. Hello Ali,
CALLER:
Hello, I just want to ask the Prime Minister a question. Before the ’96 election I remember his interview with Four Corners in which he expressed his vision for Australia as wanting Australians to be relaxed and comfortable. Now we are five years down the track, I just want to know who the Prime Minister thinks is relaxed and comfortable in Australia?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Alec is it?
CALLER:
No, Ali.
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, I’m sorry Ali. Ali that remark of mine was made in response to a question how did I want Australians to feel about their past and their place in the world, and it was in that context that the comment was made. I think we should feel relaxed and comfortable. We should feel confident about our place in the world because it’s very secure and distinctive and we should have a great pride in our past achievements. As to the individual circumstances of people if you look at the measures of personal comfort and achievement we have lower unemployment now than we’ve had for a decade - we have higher real wages than we had when I made that commitment or made that observation - we have lower interest rates now than we had when I made that observation - we have lower taxes than when I made that observation. Our financial position is stronger as a community. Our respect in the world and particularly after the events of the last 12 months - including the Olympic Games and the East Timor deployment - is higher than it was five years ago, so as best I can measure the generic condition of the Australian community, there are a lot of reasons why it should feel better about itself than it did five years ago. That is not to deny that there are many of our fellow Australians who are living in distress, that is not to deny that there are still too many people out of work, that there aren’t people in the community who continue to need help and there aren’t areas of the community that are disadvantaged. I’ve never taken the view that every single Australian all of the time is completely comfortable with his or her existence. That would be absurd, I don’t argue that and no Prime Minister can ever argue that.
CARROLL:
Ali, are you relaxed and comfortable?
CALLER:
Yeah well you know I just wanted to mention we have higher prices, we have worsening Aboriginal living conditions, we have hardship at the University, we have more difficult, you know, studying situations, we have people who can’t get to university, we have people who have to pay for higher fuel prices, we have people who are confused where this country is heading, we have difficult migrant or refugee relations in Australia, we have refugees who can’t even access the law in Australia. I mean you can’t measure everything by money standards. You can’t measure everything with money.
CARROLL:
Alright Ali.
PRIME MINISTER:
Could I just say on that seeing that you’ve given Ali a right of reply I just better finish off Andrew by making the comment that the legal entitlements of illegal immigrants to this country are more generous than in most countries around the world. I do not measure comfort by economic standards at all. I’ve never argued that. Comfort and a feeling of well being is something that owes more to things other than economics. As you particularly mentioned immigration, we have very liberal legal remedies available to people who come here illegally. Far more so than even countries with which we are commonly compared such as New Zealand.
CARROLL:
Alright. Good morning Ann.
CALLER:
Good morning Andrew. Merry Christmas to you and everybody and good morning Mr Howard. Merry Christmas to you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Ann.
CALLER:
I’m glad that you are interested in issues of social justice and equity ‘cause I, and as a solicitor I guess in your previous life I guess that would have been one of the issues that you were very concerned about. I just wonder if you could help me understand something. When you were speaking about criminal charges and people being charged for rorting the system, you know like rorting welfare payments or taxpayers money and then suitably punished, I just wonder how you explain how Mr Abbott, who rorted taxpayers money in his travelling allowances was found guilty, and…
PRIME MINISTER:
Mr Abbott? When?
CALLER:
Some years ago.
PRIME MINISTER:
I’m not aware of that.
CALLER:
Well my understanding was he was.
PRIME MINISTER:
I’m sorry. I’m sorry to interrupt but, well finish but I’ll reply on Mr Abbott’s behalf.
CARROLL:
Well I think you have to be careful Ann of what you’re saying.
PRIME MINISTER:
I mean you have made an allegation that Mr Abbott rorted his travel allowance. I am not aware of any such allegation having ever been made. I’m not aware that it ever occurred. I will, as a result of your allegation, I will speak to Mr Abbott and find out, but if it is wrong I will expect you to apologise to Mr Abbott because you have broadcast a very dangerous libel about him over the airwaves of the ABC and I don’t think that’s fair.
CALLER:
I’m happy to do that.
PRIME MINISTER:
He’s entitled, as a citizen, to his reputation. I mean, I don’t know of this. But as a lawyer you will know that your reputation is very precious.
CALLER:
I understand. I will apologise Mr Howard if that’s so but I just …
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don’t know. I mean I’m not aware of it and I’m surprised that you’ve made the allegation.
CALLER:
Well I just wanted to ask you why people who – I’m not condoning welfare fraud – but why they’re penalised at double the rate that people that over claim their travelling allowance are punished at twice that level. It just seems that there’s one rule for the rich and one for the poor.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well hang on. A number of people who have falsely claimed travel entitlements were charged – criminally charged – and dealt with by the courts. A number of people went to court and a number of those people have now left Parliament and paid a very high price. I don’t condone people who falsely make travel claims. I am totally opposed to that no matter if it happens in my party or any other party. But in fairness to all politicians, lets not just make generalised smears, let’s get our facts right. There are a number of people who made false claims. They have left the Parliament and a number of them were charged with criminal offences and they were dealt with by the courts. In our system, as you know better than most as a lawyer, it’s for the court to decide criminal liability. Now I’m not going to just allow people to besmirch the reputation of my ministers and politicians generally. There are plenty of very honest people on both sides of politics. Most members of the Labor Party in Federal Parliament are honest men and women, the overwhelming majority of them are honest men and women. They try according to their philosophy to do the right thing as my colleagues do too. Now there are a few people who let the side down and they ought to be kicked out. That’s my simple philosophy but I’m not going to just allow people to just besmirch the reputation of ministers and Members of Parliament in a generic way. I am really quite, as you can see by my reaction, it’s not fair of you to make claims about somebody – I’ve never heard those claims about him and I’d be astounded if they were true.
CARROLL:
Well hopefully Ann you can either prove it or have it disproved and a full apology. Warren.
CALLER:
Yes, Andrew. Good morning John.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning.
CALLER:
Good morning. I just want to say that I’m a non-voter but I would like to say that you handle things exceptionally well John. I just want the people of Australia to know that I don’t like this tag they give you of “Little John” when you’re taller than Bob Hawke and Tom Cruise. As far as the GST is concerned I think you’ve done a marvellous job with that tax situation. This country is the best country in the world. After having to take over after Hawke and Keating and Fraser and Whitlam, who I see are still on board, I don’t know why. I don’t know how the Australians tolerate the man. But you know, you’ve done a good job. Petrol’s on the way down. The dollar’s coming up. Everyone seems to be trading quite happily that I speak to around the country here and I think you’re a marvellous person. I think you’re going to go down as one of the best Prime Ministers this country’s ever seen. And I’m a non-voter I hope everyone realises …
PRIME MINISTER:
You’re a non-voter – can I persuade you to change …
CALLER:
You wouldn’t have to, it would be five seconds flat I’d be voting for you Johnny but…..
PRIME MINISTER:
Why are you a non-voter?
CALLER:
Well I’m a New Zealander.
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, I’m sorry a non-voter by – you’re not qualified I’m sorry. I thought you were a non-voter by choice.
CALLER:
No, Johnny it’s just purely and simply the fact that …
PRIME MINISTER:
Well become an Australian citizen mate and get on the roll.
CALLER:
Mate, there’s 3.8 million Kiwis in the world and I’ll never change.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, fair enough. I respect that. If I … I would …. Fair enough, I understand that, I respect that. I could never give up my passport.
CALLER:
Of course you wouldn’t. Greg Norman wouldn’t, none of the boys would…
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no. I couldn’t agree with you more.
CALLER:
And as far as these immigration situations going on with the boys from Fiji and Suva and Samoa sneaking in through New Zealand into Australia that should be stopped, I agree with you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we run a non-discriminatory immigration policy. How long have you lived in Australia?
CALLER:
20 years.
PRIME MINISTER:
Mmm.
CALLER:
Best country in the world.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah I know it is but if you’ve lived here that long perhaps I’ll change my mind and say you should become an Australian.
CALLER:
Oh no, that will never happen. Just get rid of that Hawke and Keating and Fraser and Whitlam. Get them off the books. They’re still getting money. They’re bludging on the Australian you know hard fought men who worked here for years and these guys are still bludging on their money, it’s bad.
CARROLL:
Alright Warren, thank you very much. Hello Mark.
CALLER:
Mr Howard, compliments of the season to both you and your family. A question about airline travel Mr Howard. Is there a specific policy for MPs airline travel? I had the pleasure to fly Impulse between Sydney and Brisbane a couple of times in the last fortnight and given the pricing it strikes me there’s a few dollars to be saved for our hard working taxpayers should our MPs travel at shall we say discount airfares.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the policy is that you can travel on any of the airlines you choose. We don’t take the view that we should dictate where people choose, what airline they choose to fly on. That’s been the policy for a long time. You’ve got to remember that airfares fluctuate over a period of time. They come and go. I’m aware that from talking to my colleagues that they fly on a variety of airlines. Some of them fly Ansett, some QANTAS, some do fly Impulse, some do fly Virgin. I don’t know in what proportion, I just don’t know that. But the policy is that they can fly whoever they like. You’ve got to bear in mind that they have particular time constraints in relation to sittings of Parliament and some times it’s not always convenient to fly by using the cheapest fare that may be available in a 24 hour period because they may have engagements in their electorates which mean they can only fly at a particular time. But generally it’s open for them to decide which airline they fly on.
CALLER:
I’ve noticed the MPs that have been travelling when I’ve travelled tend to also fly up the front, not down the back with the common man. On a flight between Brisbane and Sydney, of what, an hour and fifteen, an hour and twenty minutes, I see it a bit hard to justify when if nothing else they could be actually speaking to people who have some concerns that they may wish to put across to our leaders.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well a lot of, I mean, Members of Parliament can I assure you do spend most of their lives talking to people. I speak as a Member of Parliament for 26 years and I travel around a lot and I spend most of my life talking to my fellow Australians and I don’t feel in anyway insulated and I don’t want to be either. There’s nothing better than to, I happen to be in Sydney at the moment and I walk through the streets of Sydney. I don’t travel in a car around the city and I do the same when I’m in Brisbane and it’s a good opportunity to talk to people. I think most Members of Parliament do try pretty hard despite the criticism they cop to keep in touch with their constituents.
CARROLL:
It’s amazing that we can still do that. Good morning Ted.
CALLER:
Good morning, good morning Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
How are you.
CALLER:
My name is Ted Cameron and I’m the Secretary of the Residential Parks Association, a national association for people who live in relocatable home parks. Mr Howard you made a promise there would be no GST on residential rents. There are people who own their own home, that’s not a caravan that are being charged GST on the fee they pay to occupy the site their home’s located on. They are not provided with the accommodation by the park owner. The landowner on whose land the home is sited has the choice as to whether they will charge the GST. There are many being charged GST who don’t have to pay it and the park owner doesn’t provide the accommodation and our legal advices are that the GST act does not provide for the GST to be charged on these site fees and the Tax Office has told us at a seminar that the reason the GST is being charged on the site fees is because the government has told them to.
CARROLL:
Can I interrupt you. We’ll let the Prime Minister deal with that issue now.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I’m puzzled at that. Can you give the studio, Ted, could you give the studio your address and telephone number?
CALLER:
I certainly can.
PRIME MINISTER:
And I’ll have that investigated. It puzzles me because, it does puzzle me, I thought that matter had been dealt with appropriately. Can I investigate it. I can’t…..
CALLER:
You can. These people are being treated the same as people who rent a motel room for a night.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well can I investigate that. I am surprised to hear it. I don’t have the answer. I won’t waste your time by waffling on about it when I don’t know anything.
CALLER:
Well can I just raise two other small issues?
PRIME MINISTER:
Sure.
CALLER:
One is a question. Are there Tax Office inspectors to check whether these people who are being charged GST when they shouldn’t be because that’s happening in a lot of cases? And the second question which I think you’ve probably answered by saying you’re going to investigate it is – what are you going to do about it because these people have been singled out as the only group in Australia to pay GST on the rent for their own home?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I am going to investigate it Ted. Are there people, there will be. I’ll get the Tax Office to find out what’s happening.
CARROLL:
And Ted we’ll supply the Prime Minister’s Office with…..
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah if I can have your name, address, telephone number et cetera and I’ll try and follow it up, I will follow it up definitely and get somebody to come back to you hopefully in the New Year.
CARROLL:
All right Ted. Thank you very much indeed. Hello Frank.
CALLER:
Good morning Mr Prime Minister. How are you this morning?
PRIME MINISTER:
Pretty good.
CARROLL:
John, I wanted to bring your attention, if there’s any money from GST, I don’t know that you would be aware but Australia is losing its native animals and I mean the small critters. We’ve lost 19 species already to feral cats and foxes and they’re taking our wonderful country over. I try in a small way to make all Australians aware that it’s our right, we should ourselves be doing something to protect these little guys. You’re probably not aware but in a lot of western towns, I’m in Queensland but it doesn’t really matter what State you live in, but it produces a lot of people in the right seasons to come west and a lot of those western towns are now surviving off tourism. Where I live in Charleville we started a bilby fund to build a 25 square kilometre bilby fence. In fact we wrote to you and asked you would you like to buy a panel of fence.
CARROLL:
[inaudible]. I thought I recognised your voice.
CALLER:
Yes. And so we would like to see if we could get somebody at your level to initiate Australia wide just to see, get everybody from every State, academics and kangaroo shooters and all concerned, to have a look at the feral problem and see whether bounties are the best way to go about controlling whether it’s biological way to go about it. But let’s make a start and try and do something because if we just sit back on our hands and do nothing we will lose lots of species in the next 20 years.
PRIME MINISTER:
I have listened to that very carefully and you are obviously very concerned about this issue and very committed to a remedy. I’ve listened to what you had to say and I’ll get Robert Hill, my Environment Minister, to have a look at the capacity of the federal government in this area. It sounds as though a lot of what might have to be done is really a State or local responsibility. But can I do that and it sounds as though you’re moderately well known to the station.
CARROLL:
He’s very well known to everybody in Queensland.
PRIME MINISTER:
I know that.
CARROLL:
He’s done a huge amount of…..
PRIME MINISTER:
I know he has and I was deliberately understating his notoriety. We’ll get back to you.
CARROLL:
All right Frank, that’s as good as it gets. And look Prime Minister, thank you very much for spending the time with us and unfortunately a huge number of calls we could have got to but maybe we can do that again in the New Year.
PRIME MINISTER:
I thank you for that. Can I just add one thing to an answer I gave I think to the first caller. He said that the living conditions of Aborigines had continued to deteriorate. Can I say that although their living conditions are still way behind the rest of the community it is wrong to imagine that no progress has been made over the last 10 or 20 years. I’m talking here of periods when both my party’s been in power and the Labor Party’s been in power. And in fact the infant mortality rates have got better, and many of the health measurements there has been some improvement. And the number of Aboriginal people going to tertiary institutions has dramatically increased in the 1990s and the number of indigenous people owning their own homes has also increased. So while it is true that as a group they are still the most disadvantaged and they are still a long way behind the rest of us, it’s wrong to be so pessimistic that you think the situation is getting worse. There have been some improvements and I think one of the great shames about the debate on indigenous issues is that people think no improvement is being made. And if the whole community thinks that they’ll increase their resentment at the resources that are being devoted to the problem and I think that would be a great shame because those resources are significant and they are starting to yield some results and I think it’s important that be more widely recognised in the community.
CARROLL:
All right. Prime Minister, thank you very much for that.
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay.
CARROLL:
And thank you for joining us again the second time this year. We do look forward to it and it’s great to have the opportunity where people are able to talk with you direct.
PRIME MINISTER:
And a Merry Christmas to all of your listeners.
CARROLL:
Thank you very much indeed. And to you too I’m sure on their behalf wish you a Merry Christmas and a happy New Year and I guess we’ll see you up here in Queensland fairly shortly after the New Year given that Ryan is going to be of interest.
PRIME MINISTER:
I visit Queensland regularly whether there’s a by-election or not.
CARROLL:
We’ve noticed that as well Prime Minister. Thank you very much for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[Ends]