Subject: Meeting with Mr Mahendra Chaudhry; situation in Fiji; Fijian sanctions; Labor Party National Conference; GST rollback.
E&OE……………………………………………………………………………………
PRIME MINISTER:
Ladies and gentlemen, Mr Chaudhry and I have had a very lengthy meeting this morning. It’s been an opportunity for us to explore in detail not only what has happened in Fiji but also what is likely to unfold in the weeks and months ahead. I stated to him again our total empathy with his position; our strong and continuing condemnation of the abrogation of democracy, the suspension by the decree of the 1997 constitution; the illegal detaining of Mr Chaudhry and the other members of his democratically elected government; the apparent embrace of a racially based approach to future constitutional arrangements. We have explored in some detail the domestic situation in Fiji at present. I share Mr Chaudhry’s concern about the level of breakdown, or the extent of the breakdown in law and order and restoring law and order is the most important, most urgently important challenge ahead of the authorities in Fiji. Mr Chaudhry has expressed to me his strong support for the measures already announced by the Australian government. I indicated to him that those measures would remain in place. There will be a Cabinet meeting tomorrow in Canberra and I will be reporting to my Cabinet colleagues on the discussions that I’ve had with Mr Chaudhry and we’ll be considering the matter further. On a personal level can I say that although I was very pleased to see Mr Chaudhry again having seen him before the coup in Canberra. And although I’m very pleased that he is in relatively good health considering the terrible experience that he and his colleagues have been through, can I say that one of the number of reasons why I’ve valued the opportunity of talking to him this morning is to say to him directly and say with him before this media gathering how appalled I am at the brutal way in which he was removed from the discharge of the duties given to him by the people of Fiji. It remains a black mark against the international reputation of Fiji that that coup occurred. It remains the view of the government that somebody having been democratically elected that person had a right to serve out his term and not be interrupted by the brutal means employed by George Speight and his gang of usurpers.
And that is very much the feeling and the attitude I know of the Australian people and certainly of the Australian government. We are realists. We have to deal with situations as well as aspire to outcomes and aspire to achieve goals and we’re seeking to achieve a balance between those things.
This morning’s talk has been very valuable to me. I hope it’s been valuable for Mr Chaudhry, and he remains in Australia for a number of days as a very welcome guest of the Australian government. Mr Chaudhry.
CHAUDHRY:
Thank you very much Prime Minister. Let me begin by personally thanking Prime Minister John Howard, his Government, and the people of Australia generally for the very strong support that they have shown in the weeks of this crisis for democracy and human rights in Fiji. We of course were in captivity for eight long weeks and as Prime Minister Howard has put it it is indeed a very sad development in our region. For me personally this was the third coup that I’ve experienced because I was in government in 1987 when Mr Rabuka carried out the first coup and then again in September of that year the second coup, and this was the third coup. And as a person born in Fiji, Fiji’s welfare is deeply embedded in my heart. I am very concerned about the future of our country. It has a great future. I think there can be a place for everybody there and we can operate successfully as a multi-racial country if allowed to do so. But unfortunately for the third time in the last 13 years democracy has been usurped and constitutionally elected government has been removed from office by use of armed force. I’ve had fruitful discussions with Prime Minister John Howard. I am thankful for the measures that the Australian government has taken against the regime in Fiji, and that these measures will remain in place as Prime Minister has said. I understand that there is going to be a review of the Fiji situation by the Commonwealth Ministerial Action Group in September, and as he himself has said we will look at how things unfold in Fiji in the next days and weeks.
But the law and order situation is very grave. There is a great down of law and order in different parts of the country. It is only in the recent days that the military has asserted itself in restoring law and order but it has not been able to cope with the situation on a nationwide basis. And my first and foremost concern at this stage is the restoration of law and order because innocent people are suffering as a result of the lawlessness of some criminal elements in our society.
I am thankful to the Australian government for inviting me here, for discussions I’ve had with Prime Minister John Howard, and for my medical examination which I shall be undergoing in the next day or so. And at this stage I expect to remain in Sydney until the end of this week. Thank you very much.
PRIME MINISTER:
Are there any questions?
JOURNALIST:
Mr Chaudhry, do you feel safe given the state of the country at the moment returning to Fiji?
CHAUDHRY:
Well it’s not only about my own safety, a lot of people don’t feel safe there at all because of the current law and order situation. Certainly there is a security threat as far I am concerned and members of my government.
JOURNALIST:
So do realistically think that you will never be returned to power, regardless of Australia’s position is, given what has taken place now?
CHAUDHRY:
Well as I said, we went through this experience in 1987. It is a re-run of that and after all the events of ‘87, we were able to adopt a democratic and …[inaudible]… constitution in 1997, which has been endorsed by all communities in Fiji, all political parties in Fiji and which have the blessings of the Great Council of Chiefs as well and under that constitution, we had elections in 1999 and we formed a government. Our government consisted of four different political parties. It was a representative government in that government we had 12 ethnic Fijijans, [inaudible] only 6 Indian Ministers and I think we governed well for the 12 months that we were in office. We hope to return to that day once more, but looking at the way things are there at the moment, I am not too sure whether we can do that in the near future.
JOURNALIST:
Do you think the international community is doing enough to return to democracy?
CHAUDHRY:
Well personally I think they have to put in place an integrated plan of action which of course may [inaudible] too depending on the situation in Fiji and for the time being I would say yes I am happy with the action taken by Australia, by New Zealand and the international community.
JOURNALIST:
If the military can’t cope with law and order do you think the UN should give assistance [inaudible]….
CHAUDHRY:
I think so because we also appeal to the military ourselves to restore law and order and I think that if the regime there are unable to do so then itself should seek assistance.
JOURNALIST:
From Australia?
CHAUDHRY:
I can’t say at the moment, maybe the United Nations will be the right body to approach in this regard and they can work the details out.
JOURNALIST:
Is it something you have talked about with the Prime Minister? Something you discussed with our Prime Minister?
CHAUDHRY:
Well I have expressed my concern about the law and order situation in Fiji.
JOURNALIST:
Do you make a request though for help from [inaudible]?
CHAUDHRY:
No, not as yet.
JOURNALIST:
Do you still regard yourself the Prime Minister of Fiji…
CHAUDHRY:
That is a question I have been asked many times. Yes I still regard myself as a constitutionally the elected prime minister of Fiji.
JOURNALIST:
Do you think George Speight should be charged with treason?
CHAUDHRY:
Yes.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] Will you go ahead with plans to set up a government in exile possibly in Australia?
CHAUDHRY:
Well that is an option which we looked at. It depends on the situation in Fiji if we find it almost impossible to operate from there, then we may consider that option.
JOURNALIST:
Have you talked about that with Prime Minister Howard?
CHAUDHRY:
Not as yet.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] what about in the western island of Fiji…. as a power base?
CHAUDHRY:
Yes, there is a lot of calm there and for how long that will be we do not know but ever since the events of May 19, the western part of the main island has been quite calm.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes?
JOURNALIST:
Will the Australian government welcome the Fiji government in exile on Australian soil?
PRIME MINISTER:
That is not something that we have discussed and is not something that we would encourage. I think the solution to the break down of democracy in Fiji lies with the people of that country. A solution has to be found there with appropriate levels of encouragement and pressure and the sending of messages from outside. In the end, the attitude of the Australian government is that we don’t inject ourselves directly and physically into the domestic affairs of another country unless invited to do so or under the sanction of some kind of united nations or multinational mandate and I think that point needs to be made clear. There is a balance to be struck here. We are a concerned friend of Fiji’s. We are angry that democracy has been abrogated. We are angry that a man properly elected by his people to serve his country as prime minister has been brutally taken prisoner in an act, an illegal act of treachery and we will do every thing we reasonably can to bring about a change inside Fiji. By the same token, it is a relatively poor country, the imposition of savage economic sanctions would wreak a great deal of destruction and the poorer people of that country and we have to balance in what we do, a concern about that with our desire to register a disapproval.
It’s a very difficult balancing act, it’s not easy, but we will work through other groups particularly the commonwealth. There is a meeting with the commonwealth ministerial action group scheduled in a few weeks time and we will certainly be very heavily involved in that. Mr Downer will be going to a meeting of Pacific forum foreign ministers and the matter will be discussed there. I remain of course in very regular contact with Mr Chaudhry and his colleagues. I have discussed the matter since my return to Australia directly with the Prime Minister of India who for very understandable reasons has a particular interest in what has unfolded in Fiji. We are of very similar mind on this. It’s a case of using the influence and the good offices that we have but remembering the fragility of the Fijian economy and the fact that the economy has already been devastated by what’s occurred and also remembering that in the end unwanted intrusions by Australia beyond a certain point of acceptability can be quite counter productive.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard, does Australia recognise the administration of what [inaudible]?
PRIME MINISTER:
We don’t recognise administrations anymore, we recognise states. You deal with administrations when necessary. You deal with other people as I deal as an act of personal friendship and also a great diplomatic courtesy with Mr Chaudhry and his colleagues today. We have to recognise realities but we can, consistent with recognising realities, we can continue to demonstrate our preferences which we’ll continue to do. Our preference is for a restoration of democracy and one of the first internal tests that the authorities will face in Fiji is the bona fides of the review mechanism that the new government says it will establish for constitutional arrangements in that country.
If that review mechanism is not seen as being totally independent and totally transparent and in every way something that will give fearless advice about future constitutional arrangements then it will fail the first test and that will be seen by the rest of the world as a real negative for the restoration of democracy in Fiji.
JOURNALIST:
Prime Minister their understanding of the situation there, will you be going to Cabinet tomorrow, perhaps asking for Australia to be stepping up the situation of sanctions?
PRIME MINISTER:
The sanctions we have or the measures we have in place at the moment are right. They won’t be wound back, they won’t be rolled back or wound back but they will be kept very much in place and we think they’re right. But I certainly have, inevitably because of the detailed briefing that Mr Chaudhry has given me, I have a much sharper, more detailed understanding of what’s gone on.
JOURNALIST:
In the break down of the law and order and the increase in Fijian/Indians wanting to come to Australia, will you be looking at making, giving Fijian/Indians refugee status?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we don’t have any proposal in front of us to do that. We deal with these sorts of things in accordance with a well-established immigration policies and that well-established immigration policy is that people establish refugee status on a case by case basis. You normally undermine an immigration or refugee policy if you depart in an ad hoc way from that rule. We saw that happen some years ago in Australia under another government and we don’t want to see that happen again.
I should point out to you that a large number of Fijians of Indian heritage have come to Australia in recent years but I should also point out to you that it is not helpful for Fiji to have other countries encouraging the immigration of their people and I mean if we are interested in Fiji and not the short term expedience of this or that attitude then we should encourage people of talent and good will to remain in Fiji.
Bear in mind I said to Mr Chaudhry during our discussion, I asked him when his ancestors had gone to Fiji and he said in the 1860’s. And I said, well that was roughly about the time that most of my ancestors came to Australia. So I mean we’re not dealing here with people other than those who for generations have been citizens of Fiji and I think it’s very important that that be kept in mind. And I don’t want to encourage people to leave Fiji. That doesn’t help Fiji. We will apply our immigration policy in a compassionate way as we always do. But you don’t in an ad hoc way just announce that you’re going to allow this or that group of people to come because that undermines the integrity of the general policy.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard could you clarify if Australia is asked to physically restore law and order in Fiji, [inaudible] would you agree to that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh look I don’t deal with hypothetical questions like that. I never deal with a hypothetical question involving the use of Australian Armed Force whether it be the police or the military. No request has been made. I don’t expect one. I’ve stated the history of that and I’m just not going to answer a hypothetical question of that kind and nobody should draw any inferences from anything that’s been said at this news conference to any other effect.
JOURNALIST:
On the ALP Conference Prime Minister if you don’t mind taking any questions on another issue. Why did your government decide to take out full page ads in Tasmanian newspapers pointing out the union membership of the ALP?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well because it’s true and it’s relevant.
JOURNALIST:
But who footed the bill for that? Who paid for that? The tax payer?
PRIME MINISTER:
Those ads - I haven’t seen them.
JOURNALIST:
Were you aware that they were going in?
PRIME MINISTER:
I heard about them this morning so I haven’t authorised them. I imagine they’ve been put in by the Liberal Party.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Chaudhry [inaudible] and what health problems do you still have?
CHAUDHRY:
On the second night of our detention I was hauled out of the room where we were by six youths and I was assaulted for about ten minutes- I was kicked on the sides and punched. And so I had pain on my left side and after my release I had an X-ray done and I have cracked ribs on the left hand side. Of course the natural healing process had begun because we were there for about eight weeks but there was a lot of pain in the first few weeks of my detention there. So that is one and I had been on a fast in the third or fourth day of my detention which continued right to the end and I was down to one meal a day and I lost some weight - quite a bit of weight and so I’m feeling terribly weak. I’ve since regained some strength but I’ve been advised by my doctors in Fiji to undergo a very thorough medical examination so that’s what I intend to do and then we’ll see what the doctors have to say.
JOURNALIST:
Does it give you any satisfaction knowing that George Speight is not only in custody but is sleeping on a mattress that apparently you were on for eight weeks?
CHAUDHRY:
Well I never was a vindictive person. I feel sorry for him and I feel sorry for people who were misled by him because the extent of pain and suffering which has been inflicted on our people, innocent people was quite unnecessary. There was dissatisfaction that always in a constitutional means by which you can address dissatisfaction. And really the economy has been devastated to such an extent I don’t see it coming right for a long, long time. And this particular coup and its aftermath was much worse than what happened in 1987 because this time around there was taken was a private property and the extent of looting and burning and all that was quite substantial compared to the violence that we experienced in 1987.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Chaudhry would you seek or would you support a United Nations referendum for the Fijian people to determine what Government they want or what form of Government and constitution they want?
CHAUDHRY:
I suggested that in the press statement I gave two days after my release that perhaps the best way of finding out what the people of Fiji want is to have the United Nations supervised referendum. But that has been rejected by the regime there.
JOURNALIST:
Prime Minister Howard just on another domestic issue. Are you surprised that Kim Beazley has omitted the topic of rollback in his speech to the ALP Conference?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well from what I’ve seen of this speech it’s the same old opposition leader trying to be all things to all men. He released a platform statement on the 7th of July which stated quite concisely as point number three- “roll back the GST to make it fairer and simpler. It’s impact on education, health, charity, small business and those most disadvantaged”. And that was quite explicit. That was on the 7th of July and yet the word rollback did not appear in his speech this morning. Now what’s happened between the 7th of July and the 31st? He’s been Della Bombed of course! And the speech that he gave this morning owes more to an attempt to give an impression of changing his position as a result of the burst of candour from Mr Della Bosca.
But he can’t have it both ways. I mean he is either for it or he’s changed his position. You can’t have it both ways. I mean if he were to get up and say to the Australian people, I now accept that the new tax system is in place and we have to work with it. Now that would represent a massive reversal but at least it would be an honest confronting of the issue. But instead of that he tries to have it both ways. He pretends that he’s still going to make changes and yet he is so clearly trying to avoid the language of rollback.
Well you can’t for three years play every card in the game, do everything in your power to stop tax reform, say it’s going to destroy the very fabric of the nation and then because you’ve been confronted with some home truths by your own chosen president of the ALP then pretend to the Australian people that all of that should now be forgotten. It won’t be forgotten. It oughtn’t to be forgotten. If he wants to change his position on tax reform he should say so openly and honestly and not in this deceitful way try and slide through the middle talking about fairness and simplicity but so clearly trying to jettison the language of rollback.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible]
CHAUDHRY:
Well I think the international community has already put in place a range of actions, and this is to be reviewed by the Commonwealth Ministerial Action Group in September. Both the Commonwealth and the United Nations have indicated that they would look to Australia and New Zealand for leadership and guidance in this regard. And I am quite happy to leave it at that for the time being.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible]
CHAUDHRY:
Well, we certainly will have to engage in the struggle as we did after 1987. It took us time, but we kept at it because democracy is the best thing for Fiji and for any other country for that matter. So we’ll continue with our struggle and I think we are very encouraged by the support of the international community and we hope that it will not be too long before constitutional authority is returned to the people.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard just one question on the conference in Hobart. Mr Beazley also unveiled what he called a new Medicare alliance. What is your reaction to that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it sounds, it sounds like a new Medicare bureaucracy. He’s proposed a health finance commission. He’s proposed a Medicare alliance and a national summit on health. We don’t need these things. Mr Beazley seems to have overlooked the fact that under the GST in the years ahead, the states will all get more money. So why on earth would he be committing a federal government to give the states more money when they are getting more money as a result of the GST. Unless of course he’s going to roll the GST back in a big way. Because if you roll the GST back, you’re taking money away from the states. Now if you’re saying as a federal government, and he talks about a ten year period, a Medicare allowance of state and federal governments which will sign up to a real increase in health funding over the next ten years. If the GST is to be allowed to work in the way it’s been established, there is no need over a ten year period for the federal government to increase its health funding. No need at all because under the GST the states will automatically get more funding. And the fact that he’s committing a federal government to an alliance for real increases in health funding indicates either he doesn’t understand how the GST works, which is probably the case, but perhaps more importantly he really still has in mind a major rollback of the GST because if you roll it back you’re taking it away from the states. Now, once again it illustrates my earlier point - he’s got to come clean on where he stands in relation to the GST. He’s either, he’s either accepted the reality of tax reform, or he’s going to continue to campaign for a major rollback. And this commitment shows the confusion in his own thinking.
I mean we are saying to the states in relation to public funding for health – we’ve given you a big real increase over a five year period, under the Goods and Services Tax your funding will increase over and above what would have been the case if we hadn’t have brought in the GST. And you will therefore have access to a lot more money for public hospitals. You don’t need a further federal funding commitment over and above that. You would only need it if we reneged on the GST and tried to take it back from you, which would happen under rollback. And maybe that is what Mr Beazley has in mind. I don’t know and I don’t think the Australian public knows. And this is what happens when you try and be all things to all people.
Well I think we’ve had, I think we’ll just have one more question and then we’ll give it . . .
JOURNALIST:
Mr Chaudry, one of the major contributors to the Fijian economy is tourism, apart from agriculture. Should tourists from Australia, New Zealand, Japan, the United States continue to stay away from Fiji?
CHAUDHRY:
Well right now I think the security situation is such that no-one would want to go there until such time as authorities in Fiji are able to convince travellers that Fiji is a safe place. I think people will stay away from Fiji. Tourism of course was a very dominant, played a very dominant role in Fiji’s economy and it’s almost gone now, so it has had quite a devastating effect on Fiji’s economy.
JOURNALIST:
And Hobart, will you be attending?
CHAUDHRY:
Well, I am going in for medical tests on Wednesday and it will depend on what the doctors have to say. But at this stage it doesn’t look so.
[Ends]