Subjects: Denis Burke; mandatory sentencing; Charles Perkins; indigenous matters.
E&OE ……………………………………………………………………………
LYNEHAM:
Prime Minister, welcome again to Nightline.
PRIME MINISTER:
Always a pleasure.
LYNEHAM:
Your meeting with Denis Burke, your allowing of the debate in Parliament today, is this all fair dinkum, or are you just politicking to try to head off a backbench revolt?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it’s quite transparent. Some of my colleagues are very unhappy about the Northern Territory position and want to overturn the law. The great bulk of the party room is against that because we think in the end that it ought to be resolved by the local parliament. So there’s nothing phoney about this. We have voted against debating a bill that would overturn the Northern Territory law and that remains our position. But I have said that I’ll have serious discussions with the Northern Territory Chief Minister about some changes to their law. I don’t like their law, I don’t like mandatory sentencing.
LYNEHAM:
Now you said today in the Parliament that you thought the principle of mandatory sentencing was flawed and you have significant concerns.
PRIME MINISTER:
That’s right. I think the principle of heroin injecting rooms is flawed and I have significant concerns about that. There are a lot of things that states do, but in a federation of a big country like Australia, it is normal for the national government to allow the state or territory governments to determine matters of criminal law. It is a principle of not interfering in state and territory affairs, not endorsement of individual laws that’s at stake here.
LYNEHAM:
But why is that principle in your mind given so much more weight than the prospect of youngsters being thrown into jail for very trivial crimes and as we’ve seen in at least one case, committing suicide as a result?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Paul, that is of course in the administration of criminal law only one side of the story. The other side of the story is the sense of insecurity that elderly people have in the face of rising crime levels in certain parts of Australia. Now. . .
LYNEHAM:
But if the judges have the right of discretion, they can judge the crime. If it is a serious . . .
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Paul we . . . .
LYNEHAM:
We don’t put them away.
PRIME MINISTER:
Hang on Paul. You don’t have to persuade me that as a matter of principle mandatory sentencing is wrong, but I don’t run the criminal law of the states or the territories.
LYNEHAM:
Well, Mr Burke has already said that he has no intention of changing the laws. He doesn’t believe they need changing. He’s happy to talk to you, and he’ll explain to you how they work.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well . . .
LYNEHAM:
And wouldn’t mind some more money along the way.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we’ll just wait and see. Mr Burke should understand that we are making a serious business of having a co-operative discussion and that kind of stance is not going to get anybody anywhere.
LYNEHAM:
Well it seems to suggest that his mind is closed to whatever you say. He is pinning himself publicly here on the very night you’ve announced the meeting.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we just wait and see and he should realise that that kind of talk if he is serious about that and if he’s been properly quoted is not going to achieve anything.
LYNEHAM:
Well at the very least, if that is his opening position, you’re going to have to be robust in the extreme.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we’ll wait and see Paul. I’ve sort of dealt with these situations before.
LYNEHAM:
Do you think there really is a way of coming back to a productive and a constructive relationship between your government and black Australia? Because it’s not looking too good at the moment.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, you can’t see black Australia through the mouth of, and the eyes and the reactions of somebody like Charles Perkins. Black Australia is more than that and I certainly think that we can continue to make process along the path to reconciliation. I think the reaction to the Government’s submission to the Senate Committee has been unreasonable, from some people quite extreme and quite destructive of the interests of indigenous people.
LYNEHAM:
Charlie Perkins in particular?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I have already commented about him and I think most people feel that what he said was just so outrageous as to be right out of the ballpark.
LYNEHAM:
But when we say that a generation of young Australians went off to World War I, that’s not historically true either, but a generation of Australians lived through it, didn’t they? They cried, and they got those letters from the front, and it was a national experience.
PRIME MINISTER:
That’s right.
LYNEHAM:
For the aboriginal people, wasn’t this the equivalent? Particularly given their close kinship ties?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look Paul, there’s no argument that a lot of them suffered. There is no argument that a lot of them were unfairly treated.
LYNEHAM:
But this resort to statistics. It minimises it doesn’t it?
PRIME MINISTER:
No. What has attempted to be done with this submission is to put the thing in perspective, not to minimise it. You’ve got to remember that a lot of people who were involved in these practices thought they were doing the right thing. A lot of them were kind, a lot of them weren’t. But that was true of a lot of people in every age and every generation. And I think it’s an attempt by the minister to put this into perspective, not to deny bad things happened, he hasn’t sought to do that. And I think he has been, for a very humane and decent man, I think he has been very unfairly attacked.
LYNEHAM:
And despite Denis Burke’s comments you remain optimistic about your meeting with him? Which will be when by the way?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we’re in the process of getting our diaries together. He is currently on the way to China. But I had a telephone conversation with him and I mean the reality is that the Northern Territory is not a state, we respect it’s right in relation to the criminal law, but I have conveyed to him the concern that we have, and he must understand that he can’t ignore that concern. I don’t want to say anymore than that. There is no need for me to say anymore than that.
LYNEHAM:
Thanks for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Pleasure.
[Ends]