Subjects: Mandatory sentencing; Bringing them Home report..
E&OE …………………………………………………………………………………
MUNRO:
Prime Minister, thanks for your time. Your mini revolt yesterday must have been pretty serious for you to warn your colleagues that your Government’s future was at stake.
PRIME MINISTER:
Mike I don’t go into what’s discussed in the party room, but we’ve now been in office for over four years and we’re a party room of very capable and determined men and women and every so often you do have difficult issues. And I think it is silly for a political leader to pretend that every time his or her party meets, everybody agrees on everything.
MUNRO:
Did you get a bit of a shock?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no I didn’t.
MUNRO:
You expected it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh yes, yes. I have known that people have different views and what you have to do in these situations is to just talk things through and to work out a handling approach that reflects the broad consensus of opinion in the party room. But every political party goes through these kinds of processes. It would be a political party without flesh and blood that didn’t have men and women in it who had strong views and I admire colleagues of mine who have got strong views. And I think it’s important that we don’t run away from the fact that we do have difficult issues. A national leader has a great balancing act every day of his life and this mandatory sentencing is a very good example. I mean I don’t myself believe in mandatory sentencing, I think you should leave it to the discretion of the courts. But many communities around Australia are unhappy with the results of that and they demand the right to, through their elected representatives, in effect require that certain offences be treated in a particular way. Now, I respect that and what I’m trying to do is to resolve the concern that a lot of people have about the impact of that approach on people under eighteen. And, but also the desire of local communities to own their criminal justice system and you must remember that the criminal law of which mandatory sentencing is part, has always been dealt with by the states and the territories. It is not the sort of thing like defence and foreign affairs that the national government normally gets involved in.
MUNRO:
But you did point out only last night, that, and made a point of it, that the Northern Territory is not a state.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, but it has had internal self-government for twenty-five years and it’s had control of it’s criminal law for a very long period of time.
MUNRO:
Is this insurrection, mini-insurrection put down permanently, or just until there’s an outcome with your meeting with Denis Burke?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, look, I think those words are a little colourful. I think this thing will work its way through in a very satisfactory way.
MUNRO:
Do you or don’t you expect any real changes out of your meeting with Denis Burke?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think what I should do is meet him and then talk to you. And I always find it is better if you talk to people face to face and don’t conduct a long distance negotiation over even the most worthy television program.
MUNRO:
Do you see it as a test of your leadership?
PRIME MINISTER:
A Prime Minister’s leadership is tested every day on all sorts of issues. The idea that every so often you have something which tests your mettle or tests your leadership is erroneous, it happens all the time. And it’s an incredibly responsible, but privileged position to have and I feel that responsibility every day on a whole lot of issues.
MUNRO:
Certainly the way that Treasurer Costello was talking today indicates that there will be some changes. Would you agree?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I haven’t seen what Peter’s said and I’m always careful not to comment on what other people tell me other people have said.
MUNRO:
Can I, can I read it to you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh yes, but I would still like to know the context Mike. I think that’s a bit pointless. Look, look I am going to meet, I’m going to meet Mr Burke and we’re going to have a discussion and we’ll see what comes out of it.
MUNRO:
Why did it need a revolt, a mini-revolt in the party room to make you act in some way on mandatory sentencing?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well this is an issue where I, I mean my talking to them, to him is not all that inconsistent with or surprising given the views I’ve personally expressed about mandatory sentencing. I mean for some time now I have been saying that I am unhappy with it. Look, it is a difficult issue. There are a lot of people in my party who don’t believe that the Federal Government should have anything at all to do with this issue. There are some who believe it should intervene and overrule. There are others who believe that we should just talk. And what I’ve endeavoured to do is to reflect those views, because these are not black and white issues, they are complex issues. I understand the feelings of people in the Territory, people are worried about crime, the safety of their homes and their families. On the other hand, people are sensitive about people under eighteen being mandatorily jailed or sent to detention centres. I mean we have to be very careful, we’re not talking about jail in the traditional sense.
MUNRO:
But some would say these issues are very much black and white issues Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Do you mean in a racial sense?
MUNRO:
I do.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that’s wrong, because although it is true that proportionately there are more aborigines in jails all around Australia than others, that is not because the laws are directed in a discriminatory way against aboriginal people. The laws apply equally to all of us, but because due to social and economic disadvantage, indigenous people are more likely to fall into crime. And what we have to do is not roll back the laws so much, but try and address the causes of that economic and social disadvantage. To try and help the aboriginal people by improving their health, and their housing and their employment prospects. And that really is what I mean when I talk about practical reconciliation. I think the best thing you can do if you care about the indigenous people in this country is to address those areas of disadvantage.
MUNRO:
And admit that, and really not worry about whether it is 10% or 30% of children, aboriginal children who were taken from their families? Not get into dictionary definitions? Just respect their feelings.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well can I say to you one of the pities about the issue of that Senate submission is that you would think over the past few days that the only thing the Government had ever done in response to that separated children report was that Senate submission. The reality is that we picked up very quickly many of the recommendations of that original report, most particularly the recommendations that were designed to help the people who continue to suffer the effects of having been separated from their families years ago. I . . . it’s a great pity that the focus has been on that document, which was, to be fair, was just meant to be an analysis of some of the material in the original report. And one would imagine that is the only thing that we have said or done. But the reality is when the original report came down we picked up many, not all, I am not pretending all of them, there are a couple of ones, significant ones, we didn’t, but we have tried particularly to help with programs, link up programs, and family reunion programs for people who continue to suffer the hurt and the trauma which I acknowledge is there.
I mean no father, no person with feeling could deny that people were hurt and traumatised and I understand that. I have never pretended otherwise. And neither has Senator Herron. And I just think the whole thing has got a bit out of whack, a bit out of perspective. Our responses have been on a number of fronts, and we do care about that. But we have to move on, we have to address present disadvantage and build a future together. Of course things happened in the past that shouldn’t have happened, and we know that. But we have to deal with the present I mean that was quite a while ago now. There was a different attitude, an attitude that aboriginal people should be assimilated into the Australian community. There is a different view now and we have to act according to that different view, be conscious of the hurt people felt, but also move on.
MUNRO:
All right Prime Minister, thanks very much. We have to leave it there and we do appreciate your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Pleasure.
[Ends]