LAWS:
Prime Minister good morning?
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning John.
LAWS:
When did you, you've had this in back of your mind for a while now?
PRIME MINISTER:
I've had this in the back of my mind for a few weeks. We've been giving increasing priority to water. We want to work with the states but as everybody knows water is not something that starts and finishes at a state border.
LAWS:
No it doesn't.
PRIME MINISTER:
The last time I checked the Great Artesian Basin lay under a number of states and the last time I checked a number of rivers flowed across state borders, therefore we really must have maximum collaboration. South-east Queensland is parched, people say that the northern part of New South Wales has a bit more water than some other parts of the country, so we really have to look at this thing from a national collaborative point of view. I don't want to ride roughshod over the states, I want to work with them and in different ways they do work with us, in other ways they don't. I don't think we've made as much progress on the Murray as we should've and the Commonwealth can't be blamed for not putting in enough money, we put in an extra $500 million out of the last budget and we weren't slated to do that, we'd agreed to put in a certain amount and we decided because it was high priority we'd put in even more.
LAWS:
Can you tell me why it's taken this long before somebody's woken up to the fact that the Artesian Basin does run under a number of state lines?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't, well I suppose it's the nature of the politics in this country that you get State Premiers talking about dams and water restrictions. Most of the day-to-day decisions on water in this country are taken by state governments because, you know, you live in Sydney, you pay your water bills to a state authority, you don't pay it to a federal authority
LAWS:
True.
PRIME MINISTER:
And in country areas they're run by local councils. So we tend to think, when we think water we think state and local, and as a consequence the responses are within the parameters of state and local considerations rather than the obvious thing, that unless you have a national plan and a national approach...and it's not an issue of money. I mean, I know the states are very good at saying oh well if you're going to say anything about it Mr Howard will you give us some more money? Well I point out in the case of the Murray-Darling we have actually, without any pressure, put extra money into it but we're still very unhappy with the progress and the reason that we're not making as much progress on the Murray-Darling is that the imperative in South Australia is much greater than the imperative in New South Wales and Queensland. And it's the life blood, the drinking water of Adelaide...
LAWS:
Well that's right...
PRIME MINISTER:
...it means different things to the other two states and that's why you do need a national perspective.
LAWS:
So does this mean the Commonwealth will be seeking to assume greater control over water?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I think what it means is that we are bit by bit involving ourselves more heavily. I have no desire to just assume control for control's sake, there's no sense in that. The idea that Canberra knows best on everything is palpably false, it doesn't. But there are some things where you've got to look at it from a national perspective and you've got to, in a sense, have a national umpire who says, look, the national interest requires that we do it this way, which may not be totally satisfactory to conflicting state interests. And obviously with something like water, Western Australia and Tasmania are in a slightly different position.
LAWS:
Yes they are.
PRIME MINISTER:
And for reasons of geography and separation, whereas the river systems of eastern Australia run across, hopefully run, I mean one of them aren't running very much at the moment...
LAWS:
No they're certainly not.
PRIME MINISTER:
Across state borders and you therefore do need a collaborative approach. We've made a lot of progress, the National Water Initiative that, sort of, brought to the fore the idea of having title to water and trading water as an entitlement and a right, that was John Anderson's great legacy, that's been very effective. But these things do move at a glacial pace and the injection of a national interest will help. We've got this Water Fund which has got $2 billion in it and a lot of very good projects have been funded. Some of them are funded by collaboration between the Federal Government and a local council. I've done a number of announcements where we've put a certain amount of money in, a local council's put money in. I've done a couple of those in Queensland, some involve the states, some don't. Now we're making quiet progress with those things. And the thing you've got to remember about water, John, is there is no one single national solution. A lot of people think, why don't you do this and solve the problem, this idea that you sort of run a pipeline from northern Australia down to the rest of the country and you, you know, capture all that excess water and so on; I mean that's a great idea but it's very expensive and it's; there might be a place for something like that but there's also a place quite separately and apart from that for recapturing all that stormwater. Look at all of that water we had in Sydney a couple of weeks ago.
LAWS:
Unbelievable, all just...
PRIME MINISTER:
Unbelievable, now where did that all go?
LAWS:
Into the Harbour.
PRIME MINISTER:
Exactly. Now that makes you weep when something like that happens. And I said to my wife that weekend, several weekends ago where it just rained and rained and rained, I said all of this water is just pouring away. Now why have we as a country allowed that to happen for so long? And they're the sort of issues. Now that should be recaptured and instead of state governments, if I may say so, plundering water authorities and using them as tax collection devices, they should be reinvesting the earnings of those water authorities into building infrastructure. I mean there's a story in the Melbourne Age this morning that says $1.8 billion in water dividends flowed to State Government coffers between 1999 and 2005. Now may I say, with great respect, that money should be reinvested in...
LAWS:
In water, yeah.
PRIME MINISTER:
In water.
LAWS:
Of course it should. You said...
PRIME MINISTER:
It shouldn't be a device to raise money for state governments. Now I mean that is just simple commonsense and so really, I mean, you could find examples all over the country where that is happening. I mean last year Sydney Water spent $114 million on capital investment, yet it paid $115 million in dividends to the New South Wales Government.
LAWS:
Yes, well that's right and we didn't get any more water.
PRIME MINISTER:
And you didn't get any more water. Now, I mean these are fundamental things and no accounting explanation in my view can justify something like that because in the end the function of these utilities is to provide a service...
LAWS:
Yes, that's what they're there, well that's what they should be there for.
PRIME MINISTER:
...and can I say Malcolm Turnbull has done a very good job.
LAWS:
Could I just ask you this, you said a moment ago that I think somebody had said to you or you said to somebody else, why have we allowed this to go on for so long?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
LAWS:
Why have you allowed it to go on?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think it's a collective judgement on all of us and I'm not, all former, you know, Premiers, Prime Ministers, whatever, I mean I think we have been a bit slow. I think one of the reasons we have, quote, allowed it to go on for so long is that we never thought we had a problem.
LAWS:
Well that's probably right too...
PRIME MINISTER:
...a time when you, well I confess to doing, you drove a car on to the backyard on a Sunday morning and hosed it down.
LAWS:
Yes, well you did, that's right.
PRIME MINISTER:
I mean we all did that.
LAWS:
Will this Office of Water Resources assume the status of a new ministry under Malcolm Turnbull?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh no, it's a dedicated unit in my Department, it'll work principally to him and to me, well to him and to me and it'll be headed up by a very capable public servant, James Horne, who I've worked with before in the environmental water area and then he went and did a job in South Australia, and now he's come back to Canberra. It'll have some experts in it. We've needed a unit to just give us more advice and get a better focus on it. I think some of the reports this morning about this means we're going to have a new department etcetera; running a bit ahead of themselves. You don't solve these things by structures and I've made the announcement that we're forming the new office just to indicate the importance we're placing on it. But the real thing that has to happen is that we need a whole range of different approaches in different parts of the country. We need water authorities reinvesting their money in infrastructure, they should be capturing stormwater, they should be recycling stormwater, we need different approaches in different parts of the country. We recognise there's no one single grand slam project that's going to solve the problem.
LAWS:
You're probably right there too. Just quickly can we have a look at this Telstra issue this morning and before we go any further, let me emphasise that Telstra are sponsors of mine, I've got to tell you that.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I understand that, yes.
LAWS:
Could relations be any worse between the Government and Telstra than they are at this moment?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't want to overdramatise it. There is obviously a different approach in relation to Mr Cousins' appointment. Let me acknowledge upfront that I know Mr Cousins well.
LAWS:
Yeah, good fellow.
PRIME MINISTER:
He's a very able man and he has given me advice and why shouldn't he? There's nothing wrong with being an adviser to the Government or the Prime Minister and no matter what political stripe he or she may be. That's not the reason he's been nominated by the Government. He does have a very strong business background, he has a very strong understanding of marketing and advertising and promotion, and he also has a telecommunications background, and he's, on top of that, a very sharp bloke. He's smart and that's why we've decided to put him forward.
LAWS:
Yes, well, I mean they're all very good reasons and one would concur with every one of them. But tell me this, if there is going to be a blue over it, and it would appear there might be, you'll win anyway won't you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the way these things operate is that we will still, at the annual meeting, have the majority of the shares and we will vote those shares in favour of Mr Cousins.
LAWS:
Yes, so you'll win?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don't like to judge these things in terms of winning and losing. We will be able to support the election to the board of a very able Australian businessmen, that's how I put it.
LAWS:
Well said. Will this row affect the share price? I mean you're trying to...
PRIME MINISTER:
No I don't believe that for a moment.
LAWS:
You don't think it's going to affect it at all?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, people make judgements about the value of the company, I mean I've got to be careful what I say there's new financial laws since the last one on Telstra and I have to be very careful what I say...
LAWS:
Telstra are sponsors of mine and so have I, got to be careful what I say.
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm not qualified to give you legal advice either John, you better get; I might be qualified to do it but I don't think I should. Look, I think people make an evaluation according to the long term prospects of the company. The fact that there's a difference which will blow over, I share the Treasurer's view as expressed this morning when he said that people on the board, when they get to know a little more, I mean some of them would know Mr Cousins pretty well, when they get to know even more about him, they'll appreciate that he'd be a positive addition.
LAWS:
Yes. Okay Prime Minister it's very nice to talk to you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Always good to talk to you John and you had a good holiday, I gather.
LAWS:
I had a terrific holiday, really did have a great time.
PRIME MINISTER:
That's great. Love to talk to you again.
LAWS:
Thank you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]