KING:
Prime Minister John Howard thanks for your time and welcome back to ABC Brisbane.
PRIME MINISTER:
Pleasure.
KING:
Now is it a fait accompli that this will go ahead?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh no, I think everybody should take a very deep breath and understand that all that has effectively been agreed in Queensland is that there will be a discussion, further discussion about relations between the two parties in Queensland and the implications of that throughout the country. The issue obviously has to be discussed by the two Parliamentary parties and it also, importantly, has to be discussed by the two federal organisations of the two parties. Let me make my position clear. I think it is fantastic that at long last the two parties in Queensland have realised that they have to work together as closely as possible. Both the Liberal Party and the National Party in Queensland have wasted far too much energy fighting each other and the situation, of course, is complicated by the existence of optional preferential voting at a state level in Queensland, unlike the compulsory preferential system federally. I think it is great that they are working together and they want to get even closer together, now the question is what form should that closeness take? Now speaking for myself as leader of the Liberal Party throughout the country, I am totally opposed to anything that would alter the existing identity of the Liberal Party. I am opposed to any new name for the Liberal Party in Queensland, I don't want New Liberals, or Old Liberals, I just want the Liberal Party of Australia operating throughout the country. I personally believe that we would not have done any better federally over the last 10 years than we have done with a coalition. The idea that we could have done better without a coalition, or as a single party is very debatable. I mean we could not have done any better over the last 10 years than we have done as a coalition and I therefore would understand why people in both parties would want to continue that coalition. If there is to be a single party in Queensland, then the only basis on which I would accept a single party in Queensland would be the Liberal Party. I am not in favour of a new conservative party.
KING:
So the National Party members would have to join the Queensland Liberals.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that is the only way, I mean, I am not seeking this, but equally I wouldn't obviously be hostile to it, but, we want to get one thing straight. When you talk about a merger you are really talking about a new entity coming out of the fusion of the two parties. Now this has been raised before, it has been raised by Mr Springborg after the last election, it was raised some 10 or 12 years ago. What people should understand is that the Queensland Division of the Liberal Party is part of the Liberal Party of Australia. There is one thing that I will fight for to my last political breath, is to preserve the nationwide unity of the Liberal Party of Australia. I don't want any arrangement that in any way disturbs that. Now if, consistent with that, there can be a closer understanding and operation even if, unthinkable though it would be to a lot of people in the National Party, that members of the National Party joining the Liberal Party, well that is fine by me. Now I am not seeking that and I respect the separate identity of the National Party. I am a strong coalitionist...
KING:
But the only way you will support this though is if those Queensland Nationals effectively join a party called the Queensland Liberals. Would their policies have to match those of the federal Liberal Party?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, the policy attitude of people in the Liberal Party varies. I am not a uniform, I don't believe in uniformity for uniformity's sake. I mean there are a lot of people in the Liberal Party in say, in parts of Queensland and Western Australia who would have different views from people in the Liberal Party in Victoria, but that doesn't stop us all being the same party. I think we have an even broader church, but the important thing is that I don't want a situation where you effectively have a Queensland conservative party. That would be highly disruptive to the way in which we function federally. Now I speak from a national perspective as you might understand, but the Liberal Party is in a position of, historically, of unprecedented strength federally in Queensland and one of the ironies of this debate, Madonna, is that we would never have won four seats in the Senate in Queensland at the last election....
KING:
...Alright...
PRIME MINISTER:
If we had been, let me finish, if we had been a single party. Now I think that is something to bear in mind. I just go back to the point that I made at the beginning. I can't imagine that we would have done any better as a single party federally, done any better than we have done as a coalition. My first preference, bearing in mind what is achievable, is for the two parties in Queensland for the next state election to form and operate a close harmonious coalition. I think that is the best way because my instinct tells me that there will be people in both parties particularly the National Party who will find this proposal, if it does involve the folding of the National Party into the Liberal Party, very hard to accept.
KING:
Well Senator Barnaby Joyce, Nationals Senator says there's no way he'd be part of the Liberal Party. How carefully do Queensland conservatives have to deal with this so that this doesn't backfire and cause a greater divide to you federally?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't think it's, it's not going to cause a divide for us federally. It won't because how it will be dealt with federally is that it will be, it will be dealt with inside the two party rooms and the Liberal Party's position is pretty clear and I've articulated it. I mean we are the Liberal Party of Australia, we have members in our federal party from Queensland, a record number, and we are not going to agree to anything that will alter the relationship between the Queensland Division of the Liberal Party and the rest of the party around Australia. But consistent with that if there is an arrangement whereby there is greater cooperation between the two parties or there is a willingness on the part of people in the National Party to join the Liberal Party, well I am quite happy with that.
KING:
But short of joining the Liberal Party, it doesn't have Prime Ministerial...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I am not in favour, let me make this very clear, I am not in favour of a new conservative force in Queensland. I am in favour of a strengthening of the Liberal Party in Queensland, I am in favour of a strong coalition between the Liberal Party and the National Party in Queensland. But I want to make it very clear I have always opposed having a separate political force in Queensland because that would clearly have divisive implications for us federally, it's a very simple proposition really. The Liberal Party remains the Liberal Party of Australia, Queensland division and if members of the National Party wish to join that, well that's fine by me, I am all in favour of it but, and that is fundamentally how the proposal was outlined to me. Now if on the other hand it's a merger and there's talk of a new name, then you are getting into the territory of a new political party and I don't favour that and I would strongly oppose it and I think most Liberals in Queensland would strongly oppose it as well.
KING:
Alright, Prime Minister now that I've got your attention, can I also ask you just a couple of other questions. You've spoken to the Indonesian President today regarding the earthquake?
PRIME MINISTER:
I spoke to him last night yes.
KING:
And just can you...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I rang him to express the sympathy and the sorrow of the Australian people. I asked him whether there were any things that we could do to help him and he did indicate that some medical assistance would be very welcome and I have put our people in touch with his to see what can be arranged in that area. We've already announced an amount of $3 million to the International Red Cross effort. The death toll is now over 4000, it's an horrific human disaster. This country suffers fearful, fearfully from natural disasters and your heart must go out to them, it's very sad.
KING:
It sure does. And what's the latest advice that you're getting about East Timor?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the latest advice is really what was on the airwaves of the ABC this morning from Alexander Downer and Chris Ellison, the Army are doing a brilliant job. They have to do it in a measured way. I am not going to tell the Army how to fan out and take over and secure a city, that's their job, they're the experts and I do think people who are saying, 'oh the Army should be acting more quickly, the Army should be doing this, the Army should be doing that', frankly you ought to pull back and keep quiet and let them do their job. It's their lives who are on line and this is not easy. This is quite a dangerous operation, you are dealing with a whole lot of disparate, uncontrolled gangs and in a way it is more dangerous than what it was in 1999 because in 1999 you had, in effect, an ordered retreat and not the disparate disorganised number of gangs that you are dealing with.
KING:
Why did it take us so long to get involved though, I mean obviously this crisis has been simmering away for quite a while now?
PRIME MINISTER:
When you say, I mean, we were asked last Thursday, and the troops, no I am sorry last Wednesday and the troops were on their way within about 24 hours, so that is a world record. You say how long to get involved, we couldn't have got involved before we were asked, otherwise we would have been invading East Timor.
KING:
Alright and what humanitarian aid will Australia offer?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we have been giving humanitarian aid for the last few years and that will go on.
KING:
Will there be any increase in that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we'll look at that but that's not the fundamental problem. Every time something arises people think it's solved by throwing more money at it. The fundamental problem in East Timor is that the country is not being governed and as General Cosgrove pointed out in an interview with Fran Kelly on Radio National this morning, the circumstances now are very different from what they were in 1999. In 1999 there was united national euphoria about achieving independence, now the division between east and west and the lack of a political capacity to handle it has caused a problem. We are a world away in a sense from where we were in 1999 and in the end the people of East Timor have got to solve the problem because East Timor is an independent country. I mean we cannot have a situation around the world and particularly in our region where Australia is told to respect the independence of countries and that it's a bully boy if it seeks to express a view or to intervene, but when something goes wrong, Australia is then criticised for not having, quote, intervened earlier. Now we have done exactly the right thing with East Timor, we helped East Timor secure her independence in 1999, led that operation and did it very effectively. We stayed for a long period of time as part of the United Nations force and then the United Nations decided it was time to let them run their own show. Now sadly they haven't done a very good job of it. They asked us to come back and help them, we've done that immediately and we'll be encouraging them to run their own show again. We'll be giving them help, we'll be giving them advice, but in the end if it is to be an independent country, East Timor has got to run itself.
KING:
Prime Minister John Howard thanks for your time this morning.
[ends]