O'SHAUGHNESSY:
The Prime Minister joins us in the studio now. He's very keen to talk to you this morning so give us a call on 1300 222 720 if you have a question for the Prime Minister. Welcome Mr Howard.
PRIME MINISTER:
Morning. Very nice to be back in this lovely new studio.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
It's absolutely gorgeous isn't it? Your 10th Anniversary Dinner at the Hyatt last night. A lot of Western Australian wines on the menu I understand. Did you find it a bit hard to keep up the pace on your walk this morning?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I was reasonably abstemious because the speech came late in the evening so I had to be careful.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
That's always a good plan.
PRIME MINISTER:
Always a good plan. It was a great gathering, very well supported. It was nice to mark the occasion over here in Perth. Western Australia was very supportive of the Federal Government at the last election. We won two seats and we did very well in the Senate but that's the last election, you can't take the next one for granted. And that was part of the message I communicated to everybody there last night that the Australian public wants, and is entitled to expect constant performance from governments. They don't like governments getting complacent and thinking that they're in any way home and hosed. They never are, they never will be and that's how it should be.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
But you must have reflected I guess on the last 10 years quite a lot recently. What do you want for the Federal Liberal Party in the next 10 years?
PRIME MINISTER:
I want the Party federally to go on governing well, keeping the economy strong, keeping employment high, interest rates low, providing opportunities for small business. I also want the country to remain secure and to work productively in the international environment but I also want the Government to tackle some of our social issues as well and yesterday was a good example of that with the announcement of the $1.8 billion funding boost for mental health. This is an area where a lot more investment is needed from both the Commonwealth Government and the States. We have decided to increase our funding in a lot of areas and to create new areas such as providing that referrals to psychiatrists will be covered by Medicare, providing for practice nurses to join mental health professionals, providing additional places at universities over and above the present levels for mental health nurses and clinical psychologists. So there are a lot of new things in this policy. It is needed and we will do all of these things irrespective of the response of the States. There's nothing conditional about the announcement I made yesterday. We're not saying we'll spend $1.8 billion if the States spend $1.8 billion. We hope the States will.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
But the Senate Report did call for $3 billion.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah well if you add our $1.8 billion and if the States match our money which I think they should because historically this has been more a state responsibility than a Federal one, if they match what we've done you'll get the 50 per cent funding boost that the Senate has talked about. In fact, you'll get a little bit more than that. Now what I'm hoping the States will do in their areas of particular responsibilities, and that's supported accommodation, the psychiatric hospitals and there's also a lot more investment needed in the prison systems. Now the prison systems are overwhelmingly state ones. There are very few federal jails in Australia. Now, that's their area. Our area is through Medicare and through the carers and through the helpers and through all these others things that I announced yesterday. And I think the States want to put in money. I'm not being critical of them and I'm very hopeful that they will, in their areas of responsibility, match we have done but I do make it clear that if they don't that's not going to alter any of the announcements I made yesterday. They are stand alone, unconditional commitments from the Commonwealth.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
Can you see a WA Liberal Party Premier in the next 10 years?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh yes. It's going to be hard. I met Paul Omodei yesterday for the first time as Opposition Leader. I have met him before. I wish him well, I'll work with him as the national Leader of the Liberal Party and I'll do what I can to help. It's not going to be easy because they've got to wait another three years but if they are united, if they develop alternative policies. The important thing for Liberal Oppositions to do all around Australia is not to just wait for something to go wrong with the Government, but to develop a persuasive reason why the public should replace the current state government with a Liberal government. Now this is true everywhere. The good thing for the Liberals in Western Australia is that the gap between the incumbent Government and the Opposition is not as great as it is in states like New South Wales and Queensland where as a result of wipe-out defeats last time, the Opposition parties there are in very weak positions.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
You're later to sign the water agreement with Premier Alan Carpenter. He's overturned Geoff Gallop's decision on this and you and Mr Carpenter are perceived as being on a lot friendlier terms. Does this make the State Liberal Party job of getting elected even harder?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, it doesn't. You have to keep these two things separate and apart. Mr Carpenter leads the elected Government of Western Australia and I lead the elected Government of the whole country. And it is the respective obligations of each of us to work with each other in the public interest. The public is fed up with artificial difference. The public is fed up with mindless blame-shifting. The public wants governments of different political persuasions to work together and I will work constructively with Mr Carpenter. We will have our differences, such as over uranium, but in areas where we can work together I'm not going to bring in politics and I don't expect him to. And if he comes half-way on all of those things where we can work together, well, I will meet him. But that doesn't alter the fact that I'm a Liberal and I will do everything I can to help the Liberal Party.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
(inaudible) with illegal fishing. WA Fisheries Minister John Ford says he's not very impressed with the results of the Federal Government's operation targeting illegal fishing, just a drop in the ocean.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that's easy to say. I mean I suppose I could come over here and say the State Government hasn't solved enough burglaries. I mean that's the sort of silly point-scoring that I'm talking about.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
But the tensions you've got currently with Indonesia isn't making that...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that is related but separate. We do have a problem at the moment regarding West Papua. It's a difficult issue.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
Can I get an update on that Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
Sure.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
The state of the search for the six Papuans, they were reported to have arrived off the Australian coast but they have actually been found in Papua New Guinea. Is that right?
PRIME MINISTER:
The reports indicate that they have almost certainly gone to Papua New Guinea. The original reports that they had come to an island off the Australian coast are now seen as wrong. That's a good thing in the context of the relationship between Australia and Indonesia.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
Well it is and it isn't. I mean they were on their way to Australia and it looks as though they've made a mistake. But I mean it is a sign that there could be an influx of Papuans as a result, a consequence of you granting temporary, at least, asylum to those 42 asylum seekers. So that's not going to help the relationship is it?
PRIME MINISTER:
The relationship is under strain because of this issue. I would say to people in West Papua and I would say to any people in Australia working with them, any who may be encouraging them to come to Australia that that is not something the Australian Government or I believe the majority of the Australian public wants. We regard West Papua as part of Indonesia. We regard West Papuans as citizens of the Republic of Indonesia and we will not support any kind of independence movement. And the history of West Papua incidentally is quite different from the history of East Timor.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
You said that about East Timor as well didn't you? The Indonesian Government's not likely to draw a lot of confidence...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think any sober assessment of the history of the two territories....well one of them is now an independent country, the other is part of Indonesia. The history is different and bear in mind there was a forcible takeover of East Timor by Indonesia, remember? Back in 1975. So the history is quite different whereas there was a referendum supervised by the United Nations which resulted in West Papua becoming part of Indonesia so the history is quite different. I mean that is a long time ago and this is all confused by people who try and conflate the two situations and say well this is exactly the same, you said this with Timor, look what you did, saying this with West Papua, therefore the Indonesians think that is what you are going to do. Very, very different situations. And can I also point out that there was actually a supervised United Nations vote in East Timor and the basis of Australia's involvement in East Timor.
JOURNALIST:
The Indonesians still weren't very happy about that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I know that Indonesia wasn't and you have to do what you think is right in a situation like this and we did what we thought was right in East Timor and I will never retreat in any way from what the Government did over East Timor. The fact that it brought us into conflict with Indonesia was unfortunate but it was the right thing to do and it was overwhelmingly supported by the Australian people. But we have moved on from that and I find the new Indonesia very different from the Indonesia of 1999. Indonesia is now the third largest democracy in the world. It's led by one of the most capable, moderate, Islamic leaders in the world. Bambang Yudhoyono is a symbol of moderate Islam. He is the face of the future as far as moderate Islamic governments are concerned and that is why it's very important that the democratic change in Indonesia be consolidated and take root.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
So it's not really in either country's interests for this stand to continue? Have you spoken to President Yudhoyono?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well my custom is that I speak to people and it's after I've spoken to people that I talk about what we've discussed.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
Alright. Happy to take some calls now Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
Sure, yes I am.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
Paul, good morning.
CALLER:
Good morning.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
How are you?
CALLER:
I'm very well.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
Have you got a question for the Prime Minister?
CALLER:
Oh I've got two quick ones.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
Off you go.
CALLER:
Oh is he there is he?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I am, how are you Paul?
CALLER:
Oh hi mate, how you doing?
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm very well.
CALLER:
The first one is the IR laws. If they're so good for the country, how come federal politicians aren't put on it? That's one question. The second question is, we're going to sign the Water Initiative today or tomorrow, whenever it is, are you going to give us a billion and a half dollars of that to drought-proof our State?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'm going to give...
CALLER:
A billion and a half dollars would fix our state, that's half the country, we can pump it across to South Australia.
PRIME MINISTER:
I know, I'm in Western Australia.
CALLER:
Think about. See ya mate.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good on you, Paul. Look in relation to the second question, now that the Government of Western Australia has decided to sign up, Western Australia will get her fair share of the $2 billion National Water Fund and I'm quite certain the Premier will this morning raise with a number of projects, and that's good, that's how the system works. In relation to IR, well in a way we are subject to it. We can be dismissed at any time by the people, irrespective of how hard we work. I know a lot of Members of Parliament, on both sides, who work very hard for their constituents, day and night, and the political tide turns and out they go.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
The IR laws have garnered some interest in Western Australia recently with the suggestion that if the States are unsuccessful in their bid to overturn those laws in the High Court there's some suggestion that that will clear the way for the Federal Government to override the States on other issues. Would you override the States on uranium?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well could I just go to the point, I think this was an article written by Professor Craven. Yes I thought that article went way, way too far.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
Well Peter Costello has already flagged that idea. He suggested that...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'll come to uranium, but the point that Professor Craven was making was that if the Commonwealth is successful in relation to the High Court challenge by the States, so that means that it'll be all and sundry and open slather - that's wrong. I believe in the division of powers between the Commonwealth and the States, very strongly. But there are some issues where the national interest has to take precedence over a local, state or provincial interest. Now the export of uranium is one of those. I don't know what the finite constitutional position is in relation to that and I would hope, and I would have a very strong preference for the States coming to their senses on this issue, and recognising that it is in Australia's interests - and it's also in Western Australia's interest. We have an historic opportunity because of the emergence of China, perhaps also India can come into this, to sell our resources including uranium to these rapidly developing countries that will form, or contribute the bulk of world's middle class by 2010. And I think it's very much against the interests of both Australia and Western Australia for this anti-uranium and mining attitude to be maintained by West Australian Government.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
Well certainly that's one issue but just merely the point that if you can override the States on that issue, if you can override WA's opposition to IR laws, than can you override WA on uranium? But the possibility is there.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well can I answer the question? It does not automatically follow because the power that is being used in relation...in relation to industrial relations is the corporations power in relation to industrial relations is the corporation's power and I can't see, the you know, the comprehensive application of that in relation to uranium but I haven't really given that a lot of detailed thought. Peter was making the point and I make the point as well that what we are talking here about is the export of minerals from Australia and surely that is something in which the Commonwealth Government has a legitimate interest. But this could all be resolved, it won't even arise if there is a cooperative attitude taken by the States and already, Peter Beattie, the Premier of Queensland is agreeing that the Labor Party's federal policy should be overturned and that's what ought to happen.
JOURNALIST:
Alright, John good morning.
CALLER:
Good morning Gillian, good morning Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning.
CALLER:
Congratulations on your ten years.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
CALLER:
My question is to do with Telstra and the eminent or possible sale in T3, I've bought T1 shares so I am not doing too bad but if I had have bought T2 I wouldn't be overly impressed and I find it hard to figure out how a pretty much monopoly company, even though the conditions on it to share its network and the profit that it makes, isn't reflected in the share price and I just wonder how you are going to convince the rest of the Australian public that it's a good buy.
PRIME MINISTER:
That's not easily answered, we are not going to engage in a fire sale of Telstra, I want to make that very clear. We have parliamentary authority to sell Telstra, the remaining shares in Telstra but that doesn't mean that we are going to sell them at any price. We have appointed some investment advisers and we will listen to them but I want to make it very clear irrespective of other views that may be expressed from time to time, we are not going to sell Telstra shares at any price and our commitment to the full privatisation of Telstra doesn't mean that we have to sell them as soon as humanly possible, we obviously have to pay some regard to the share price and some regard to what might happen with the company over the months and years ahead. Now plainly because of the big changes in this area, the new management team in Telstra, the debate that went on last year before the sale legislation went through, clearly there is an enormous amount of debate about Telstra and all of those things are having an impact on the share price and we'll take all of these factors into account and we'll sell at a time and in a manner that is best calculated to help the company and to help the shareholders.
CALLER:
Which would be a fair while then?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it depends I am not going to set myself up as an expert in this area, but as a decision-maker, I want to reassure you and I want to reassure your listeners that we are not in the business of selling at any cost, at any time very soon just for the sake of getting it off our books - that would not be sensible.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
Alright John thank you very much for that. 1300 222 720 is to have a call from the Prime Minister. Peter's next, good morning Peter.
CALLER:
Good morning Prime Minister, it's a more a statement of disgust rather than a question. I'm completely gob smacked the way you kowtow to Indonesia and come out with a statement that West Papua is now part of the sovereign nation of Indonesia. What a load of rubbish. Indonesia weren't even interested until (inaudible) went up there, started mining. Do you know they get 15 months jail for showing their own flag up there and you're backing this Indonesian Government, this what they call it, a liberal regime. (inaudible) Australian Embassy yesterday? That's the sort of liberalism you're dealing with (inaudible). Honestly I've been a supporter of yours for years but the way you've been speaking today and yesterday about West Papua, I think this is one vote you're going to lose. Good morning and thank you for listening.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well thanks Peter, we obviously disagree on this. Indonesia has gone through a very difficult transition to democracy. It's easier for a country like Australia that's never known any other system to take it for granted, but when you've had authoritarian government, such as Indonesia had for many years, and the sort of history Indonesia's had, I think the transition to democracy is deserving of praise. It's not a perfect democracy but gee, it's a big country, it's the largest Islamic country in the world and surely it's in our interests without in any way surrendering our dignity and our independence, to try and work with Indonesia. I defended the decision to grant the asylum to those 43 people because it was done in accordance with Australian law. So I don't think anybody can say I'm kowtowing to Indonesia. If I'd been kowtowing to Indonesia I'd have moved heaven and earth to overrule that decision to stop it happening in the first place. I think that criticism is inaccurate and unfair and not sustained by the facts.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
Phil.
CALLER:
Good morning Mr Howard.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Phil.
CALLER:
I'd like your comments on two things. I bought a gas vehicle. Now since I've bought that, gas has gone up 30 cents. I just want to know with the oil prices and petrol prices creeping up, how in relation does gas keep going up with petrol prices? And the other part was, I've heard recently that we export oil at $20 a barrel and we get it back at whatever the price is like nearly $70 a barrel....
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, we are bounded, if I can put it that way, loosely by the world price. As far as gas is concerned, well markets produce situations where if the price of one commodity, which is roughly replaceable with another goes up, that has an impact on the price of the other commodity. I asked you, when did you buy your vehicle?
CALLER:
About six months ago.
PRIME MINISTER:
About six months ago, yes. Well the problem here is simply that the world price of crude oil has gone up and it's likely to remain high while ever there's uncertainty about supply. It's not only the Middle East but it's in other parts of the world. And while ever there's an underinvestment in refining capacity, that is starting to change, and of course you had the knock-on effects of the Hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico, Katrina which had a very big impact on the refining capacity of the United States.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
We always seem to see though in the holiday, sorry, sorry to talk over the top of you Phil, but we've got all of those issues that, we've got the holidays coming up and the prices just sort of seem to spike, you know regardless of what's happening worldwide, and that seems to be something that petrol companies are just doing at their own whims.
CALLER:
Yeh but I can appreciate that with oil, but what about gas, it's got nothing to do with oil?
PRIME MINISTER:
But the two... see you use gas in your car, whereas other people use petrol and the point I'm making is that they're two commodities which are being used for the same purpose. And it stands to reason that if the price of one goes up, it can have an effect on the other.
CALLER:
Well it shouldn't do.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'm not sure that I...I mean we wish it didn't but unfortunately it does.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
Alright thank you very much for your points Phil. Susie. Good morning Susie.
CALLER:
Oh good morning. Good morning Mr Howard. Mr Howard I just want to congratulate you on the package for mental health. I think it's very urgently needed. Perhaps a little more I think... I realise that the votes aren't in this and people affected by it often don't have a voice, so I'm so glad that you've actually... I heard you on the radio yesterday speaking about mental health and how we are talking about it more these days. Really it's great what you're doing. Definitely we need more and we actually need efficiency within the system, as opposed to bureaucracy. Compared with other nations around the world, sort of first world countries, we don't spend as much on mental health. In the future are you planning on doing more or is this it for the time being?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you never say this is it, that would be foolish. But there is a gap, there is a bigger investment needed, it's a shared responsibility. We've outlined in some detail what we're prepared to do, and we will do what I announced yesterday irrespective of the response of the States. If the States do nothing at all, and I'm sure that won't be the case, but if they were to do nothing at all we would still spend the $1.8 billion I've talked about. And clearly if there is need to do more in the future we will. You never say this is it in an area like this. But it is a big commitment and I think it's only reasonable that we now ...say to the States well what are you going to do, particularly in the area of shared accommodation. And if they were to match our $1.8 billion, you'd have $3.6 billion more investment in mental health, and that would be a huge boost.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
Alright, Susie a lot of other calls to get to, but thank you for your point. Bruno, good morning.
CALLER:
Good morning Gillian, Mr Howard, how are you going?
PRIME MINISTER:
Good thanks.
CALLER:
I'm just ringing about the impact of these high diesel prices on commercial heavy vehicles. I know you can't interfere with the actual price itself, but I'm wondering why the Government can't come to the party and maybe increase the fuel rebate, which was brought in quite a few years ago and hasn't increased to match the increase of fuel? That would take a big burden off us and...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well in isolation it would, there's no doubt about that, but can I just remind you that we have in relation to excise some diesel, which is sort of in essence what you're talking about because we rebate the excise. We have pegged the excise, thereby abolishing the indexation of excise, something we did four years ago and if we'd be...we'd not done that people would be paying a lot more for diesel and petrol and of course we cut the excise as well at the same time. And excise is paid on the volume, it's not paid on the cost and therefore whilst of course we can do it, but the question of whether it's something that you would do in isolation from other things, and if you were to do it in response to the current high prices, it would be next to impossible to take it back if the prices were to fall in the future, which inevitably they will. I don't regard the current high price of fuel as being permanent. I think it will probably remain higher than it used to be, but settle down at a level which is lower than what it is now.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
Alright thank you very much, we will probably have to leave it there Prime Minister because we've run out of time. Sorry about the callers that we didn't get time to get to. Any plans for the rest of the day?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the Premier and I are signing the National Water Initiative and then I'm going to launch, with the Prime Minister of The Netherlands, the replica of the Duyfken, which is going to sail around Australia. Or the Duyfken, I think that's the correct Dutch pronunciation. Somebody will correct me if that's not right, around Australia and I'm looking forward to doing that.
O'SHAUGHNESSY:
We'll have to leave it there, thank you very much for joining us.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]