MITCHELL:
Mr Howard good morning?
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Neil.
MITCHELL:
Now you're meeting the Premiers today, will you ask them for a tougher line on marijuana?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I will ask them to agree with me that part of the solution to the mental health problem is a tougher line on marijuana and I imagine they will agree with me. But I don't want the mental health debate just to be seen in the context of a tougher line on marijuana, I think you all know my views on that. I am sure that the Premiers will agree with me. But what I would like out of today's meeting on mental health, is an agreement from both levels of government, that each of us will put more money in. I'm not asking the States to do it alone and we're not going to do it alone. We both have to put more money in and we need to identify the areas that should be attended to, and we need within the next few months to work out exactly what we're going to do in each of those areas, and the level of resources that are going to be put in. But my starting point is it's a big problem. There have been mistakes made in the past. They've been made perhaps in good faith. The institutionalisation in the 1960s and 70s was meant to be a step forward and a way from the dark Victorian approach of mental asylums.
MITCHELL:
What do we need to go back to institutionalisation?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think you can go back and I don't think you should try and go back to that system. But there needs to be something in between where people are not left without support. They lose the encouragement and the incentive to take medication and they are just generally left unsupported in the community. Now each of us have got responsibilities here, and I'm not interested in trying to sheet home blame to the States, and I hope they're not trying to do the same thing in return. I think the public will get very impatient with that. But we are willing to put more money in and I expect the States to match that willingness - and I'm sure they will. We do need to look at that half-way house if you like, between the institutionalising arrangements of the past and the current situation. We do need to recognise that the abuse of marijuana is one of the reasons why so many people in middle age now have mental health problems. We need to get away from this silly idea that it was and is a safe recreational drug that can be taken with ease and it won't have any consequences. There's mounting medical evidence, especially over the last few years, that it does have very severe consequences, and I would hope the view of a few years ago, which was widely held in the community is no longer as prevalent.
MITCHELL:
Do we need to look at doing away with the warning system? There's pretty much nobody charged for possession these days?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well these are things that, in the end, the States have got to deal with and I don't mind talking to them and expressing a view on them. But I don't think I can, you know in a few minutes do a rewrite of State laws and I won't try and do that - that is ultimately up to the Premiers. But if we can get a general agreement of the type that I've described, and we put it well and truly on the top of our medical reform agenda, we each make a generic commitment of more resources, we establish a mechanism to identify the areas where those extra resources should be sent, and we also recognise that we need to involve the psychologists, and the medical fraternity well and truly in providing the response, but also acknowledge that it's going to take some years to improve the situation. But it is a serious matter when on some estimates you have between 15 and 20 per cent of Australians at various stages are affected by mental illness - mind you not all of it's severe, the number of people severely affected by schizophrenia and bipolar disorder and other things is less, but much less, but it's a problem and people recognise it and it's very difficult to all families and they need more help.
MITCHELL:
Calls for the Prime Minister in a moment. 9696 1278. Prime Minister have you got full confidence in the head of Telstra, Sol Trujillo?
PRIME MINISTER:
The managing director of Telstra?
MITCHELL:
Yes.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it's not really for me to have confidence in him because I don't employ him.
MITCHELL:
Well you're a pretty major shareholder or representative?
PRIME MINISTER:
We are...
MITCHELL:
Profit's down and he says there's more tough times ahead.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the company chose Mr Trujillo, we didn't.
MITCHELL:
What's your view of him?
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm not going to express a view other than to say that as the person chosen according to the processes of the company he has my support.
MITCHELL:
Do you believe he should appear before the Senate?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that is a matter for the Senate to decide.
MITCHELL:
What's your view?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't seek to dictate to the Senate who appears before it - that's related to the internal workings of the Senate.
MITCHELL:
But I can't understand, this bloke is chief executive of the major... you're the major shareholder, or the people are the major shareholder, and he's refusing to appear before the people.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes but people...other people in his company are appearing. I don't think I can get to the situation of saying which individual ought to turn up on what day. I mean that is micromanagement of the Senate to an absurd degree.
MITCHELL:
Well I'm not saying....
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, I really don't want to get into that.
MITCHELL:
Okay. Well what about... are you concerned about the timeline to sell Telstra, given that the figures have gone down, given he says there are more tough times ahead, and you're intending to sell it in November?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well obviously we will take all of those things into account. We are not irretrievably committed to selling by a certain date. I have never taken the view that we will be a distressed seller. We're not going to do that, we said that all along. We have the legal authority to do it and we'll do it at a time which will obtain the best price, reasonably obtainable in the foreseeable future.
MITCHELL:
Do you believe that Mr Trujillo is taking the company in the right direction?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am not sufficient of an expert in telecommunications management to give a considered view on that. I think what you have to do, particularly if you've corporatised a company and you're wanting to fully privatise, is that you appoint a board, and you allow the board to choose a managing director. I was not involved in his choice.
MITCHELL:
Well you're hardly endorsing him Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Neil I'm just stating the truth. I don't manage the company. I don't talk to Mr Trujillo on a daily basis. The last time I spoke to Mr Trujillo would've been at a function in Sydney, a pre-Christmas luncheon on about the 18th or 19th of December - I haven't spoken to him since. And we exchanged social pleasantries. I don't talk about Telstra policy because I do not run the company.
MITCHELL:
Okay. RU486, the abortion drug, how will you vote?
PRIME MINISTER:
I haven't finally decided. I am more interested in the principle of who ought to decide these things rather than the more emotive debate about whether one is for or against abortion. This is not a vote on abortion, this is a vote about whether at the end of day, after proper investigations by the Therapeutic Goods Agency, at the end of the day, the decision should be made by a delegate of the Secretary of the Department of Health or by the Health Minister, incidentally after consultation with his ministerial colleagues.
MITCHELL:
Senator Heffernan described the Senate as 'the killing fields' last night, now that hardly helps the debate.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think on both sides of this debate there has been extreme exaggerated language, and I say that very deliberately. I think people have been a little exaggerated, but that always happens with these debates. And if anything, a process like this strengthens the fabric of democracy. It's a good idea on these issues to allow a free vote and I haven't sought incidentally to influence how anybody votes, and I don't intend to do so. And I don't expect my views on this matter to influence a single vote, other than of course my own. I don't seek to encourage people to vote in any particular direction simply because of my view. I have agreed with men and women in my Party and in the National Party who are quite free spirited and independently minded. They're perfectly capable of making up their own minds and whatever decision they reach of course will be the law and we'll go along with it.
MITCHELL:
Did you find that T-shirt that Senator Nettle was wearing in the Parliament, Tony Abbott, or 'Mr Abbott get your rosaries off my ovaries', did you find that offensive?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I did. I think that was deeply offensive to many Australian Catholics. I am not a Catholic but I understand enough about Catholic devotional practices to respect and recognise that that would've been very offensive. It's ironic isn't it that in a week when everybody is being lectured about being sensitive to Muslims in our community - which they should be - a representative of the Greens Party thinks they can basically sneer at a Catholic devotional practice and think that's funny and I might say to see some journalists and others standing by grinning as if the whole thing's a huge joke. Now she has a right to do that, it's a free country, it's an expression of free speech, just as I don't believe you should have a law making it a criminal offence to burn the Australian flag - much in all as I love and revere that flag, I'm not trying to stop Senator Nettle doing something like. But I am expressing the view that it was deeply offensive. I mean it's the kind of silly, undergraduate contribution to this debate which is regrettable, but that's democracy. And I guess the only other thing that I would say is I do not agree with my good friend Tony Abbott that the Senate vote was a vote of no confidence in him or Government Ministers. This is a free vote and when you have a free vote, everybody is just there as an individual. Tony is an outstanding Health Minister he has my total confidence. This is not a criticism of him it's just that a majority of people in the Senate exercising the freedom they have in a free vote, have expressed a view that he doesn't agree with. Well that's democracy and we all are bound by that.
MITCHELL:
I take your point you should be consistent, you don't offend one religion, you don't offend another but...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well exactly.
MITCHELL:
Do you believe that those cartoons offensive to some Muslims should be published in this country?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think that's a matter of individual choice. I think the reactions in other parts of the world are completely disproportionate to the offence that could possibly have been given. I mean when you think of the ridicule to which a Christian and a Jewish and other beliefs have been subjected over the years, I think the reaction has been totally disproportionate. I mean I think newspaper editors have got to consider the impact of those sorts of publications on Islamic opinion, I think if we are serious about respecting all religions we've got to do so but in the end we should not try to use the law to stop those things being published and we call on newspaper editors to exercise their discretion and most of them in Australia have chosen not to. But that's a matter for their individual choice but I do believe that the reaction around the world has been quite disproportionate.
MITCHELL:
We'll take a break, we'll come back with more for the Prime Minister and more calls to the Prime Minister or some calls to the Prime Minister 9696 1278.
[commercial break]
MITCHELL:
The Prime Minister is in our Canberra studio. Prime Minister does the name Eddie mean anything to you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes indeed.
MITCHELL:
Have you spoken to him to congratulate him?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I haven't but I will, I will probably see him next week. I wish him well, it's a tough job.
MITCHELL:
He'll want to lobby the media laws with you I am sure.
PRIME MINISTER:
I am sure he will have a view on that absolutely although I am broadly aware of the views of his company on that issue already.
MITCHELL:
I'll bet you are. There's a New Zealand boxer...
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
MITCHELL:
...coming to Australia for the Commonwealth Games team who's served four years for killing his five-month-old daughter for manslaughter. Should he be allowed into the country?
PRIME MINISTER:
On the face of it, no. I think that's a matter for, I think, determination by other authorities. Well sorry should he be allowed into the country? Well I think if he's served his sentence it's the usual situation somebody should be allowed into the country, the question of his participation in the Games I think that's the issue isn't it?
MITCHELL:
Some countries, I think in the United States if you've got a criminal conviction you have trouble getting in.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there are certain rules that we have and they will be applied in the usual way.
MITCHELL:
Is it appropriate that he be competing in the Games?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I, my initial reaction is no, but that is a matter for the authorities.
MITCHELL:
Hello John, go ahead please John.
CALLER:
Good morning Neil, good morning Mr Howard. Why I am calling is that I am really trying to emphasise how important and I think a lot more should be done for people with depression and anxiety. My wife has suffered with depression and anxiety over the last seven years. For the first five years, it was just no-one knew what was going on, we couldn't find anyone who could actually help us. We are now getting some very good help. Neil would know talking through Jeff Kennett with his wife and Rex with Lynne, Lynne Hunt how serious the problem is. Unless you live with someone or know someone, people just have no idea of what is going on with them. I really do implore the Prime Minister to really take a serious look at what is going on with this. It is so disruptive and concerning for families. We've got three young daughters and it is very, very hard.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well John I sympathise with you, you are right we are going to give it a much greater emphasis. It is the case that many feel people when they encounter it, well they don't know they've got the problem to start with, and they feel helpless and they feel that many people are not, that they normally consult in these circumstances are not able to help them and we want to try and improve the situation. I have every sympathy for your position, particularly for your family.
MITCHELL:
Thank you John, Gwen hello.
CALLER:
Good morning Premier.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister. Don't demote him Gwen.
CALLER:
I beg your pardon Prime Minister, Mr Howard, thank you for the opportunity to speak. I lost a son from marijuana and possible more drugs which it reached to in Greece in a foreign hospital in 75 and 30 years to the day, the young Chinese was executed in Singapore so things haven't improved and what's going to happen in the next thirty years? It needs to have a lot of consideration to our problems.
MITCHELL:
Thank you Gwen, the Prime Minister do you support the NSW legislation to increase the penalties for the growing of hydroponic marijuana which is stronger?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I do. I welcome the change in direction of many of the states. It was only a few years ago as you will recall in some discussions I think you and I had on this very programme that the stance I had on marijuana was branded as unfashionable and out of touch by many people in state politics from both sides. Not only in Victoria but in other parts of the country I think there has been a big turnaround in opinion. Going back to Gwen I can only say I can't begin to imagine the trauma you would have felt, that yours is not an isolated case. I have known people who have lost children through suicide and other circumstances because of marijuana and other drug abuse. I hope that in thirty years time the situation is better. We all have a responsibility, law enforcement is part of it, having better rehabilitation is part of it and better education and it really is where marijuana use and amphetamine use comes in, we shouldn't forget amphetamines. We have been very successful in Australia in persuading people not to smoke. It's amazing the turnaround. I think in the last thirty years one of the biggest social changes in Australia is the lower incidence of smoking. You never have people smoke now, very rarely at dinner parties, the widespread bans and we have accepted it and we have done better than any other country virtually with this.
MITCHELL:
Yes.
PRIME MINISTER:
We ought to be able to do the same with marijuana but it means that people in a position of influence and leadership have to see marijuana as great if not a greater menace than tobacco consumption. Thus far there has been this odd conflict where many of the people who vigorously advocated that anybody smoking a cigarette should be made a criminal. I declare a former interest, I used to smoke, I stopped smoking when I was 39 and it was the best health decision I ever took. But some of those same people who think it is virtually a crime to smoke a cigarette think that somehow or another it's clever to go the opposite direction on marijuana. It's not.
MITCHELL:
Is junk food for kids also on the agenda today?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well not some sort of legal ban. I don't believe in that and that's a bit of a beat-up but obviously these are things where the more parents and schools can be encouraged to have highly nutritional diets, the better.
MITCHELL:
The AWB and the resignation of Andrew Lindberg the head of, the chief executive of the AWB, will that help, should he deserve to, was it right that he resigned?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think that is a matter for the company, I am very loathe to make judgements about AWB Limited individuals until the Cole inquiry is finished, we haven't heard the full story, we haven't heard everything from the company. Clearly there has been a lot of critical evidence that's come out. The company decided that it was the right thing to do and so did he and I don't really want to say anything more than that at the present time.
MITCHELL:
What about the issues of your ministers, are you still...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I am totally satisfied that nothing in the way of evidence has been produced implicating them. I mean we've had a...
MITCHELL:
Pretty strange that Mark Vaile doesn't recall the meeting about kickbacks?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well he certainly has denied persistently knowledge of the kickbacks, do you remember every meeting you had six or seven years ago?
MITCHELL:
Well I think if somebody came in and said your company is paying $300 million in bribes.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well he has persistently denied any prior knowledge of that as have all of my ministers but this idea that there is something odd, that Mark Vaile would meet the chairman and managing director of AWB is obscene...
MITCHELL:
Well that's not odd but if they did raise with him kickbacks...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Mark has answered that question by saying he has no recall of that meeting, he is checking his records, he has persistently said that he was not aware that these alleged kickbacks were being paid in those years. I mean obviously we've all become aware of these allegations and indeed in the wake of the finding, findings of the Volcker Inquiry of the very serious allegations and we have set up an inquiry. I mean this is, this is a government that has established a transparent inquiry, Mr Cole says he has got all the powers he needs. We have done more to investigate these alleged misdeeds than any other country. Cole has the government's documents, he's got AWB documents, he's got the coercive powers of a Royal Commissioner, he's got a very strong counsel assisting. He will get to the bottom of it and he has said he's got the power to make findings of fact in relation to the behaviour of Commonwealth departments and Commonwealth officials and he has also said that if he needs to, he will ask for extended terms of reference. We could not have been more open and cooperative and at the end of the first week back at parliament the Labor Party has not brought forward a skerrick of evidence.
MITCHELL:
So you are confident the government...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I am confident on the information that I have been given and I have spent a lot of time talking to colleagues, talking to departments, I am confident that the government is in no way implicated in this matter.
MITCHELL:
The US President Mr Bush has today outlined details of a foiled terrorist attack on Liberty Tower in Los Angeles, were you aware of it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't normally make comment on what I am aware of or not aware of in relation to security matters.
MITCHELL:
Would it be, is it reasonable though that the (inaudible) of the South-east Asian link which was exposed and therefore the...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well obviously...
MITCHELL:
...did that involve us, I mean that was very close to home?
PRIME MINISTER:
Neil there is very close cooperation between our agencies and the Americans, very close, it's one of the great dividends that comes out of the very close relationship but I don't want to get into commenting on security matters.
MITCHELL:
Wayne go ahead please Wayne.
CALLER:
G'day Neil thanks a lot. G'day Mr Howard how are you going?
PRIME MINISTER:
Very well Wayne.
CALLER:
The question is gas and petrol prices at the bowser, just rolling past the bowsers trying to fill up this morning and 49.9 are trying to get everybody or my family onto gas, run at the cheaper prices. How can we control these prices a little bit more?
MITCHELL:
How do you keep them down?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the only way they'll come down is for the world price of oil to come down and that is only going to happen when a number of things fall the right way, we need more refining capacity because of increased demand, particularly because of China's expansion. We need a more settled situation in the Middle East, that's having an impact on oil prices and we need to fully recover from the impact of the Katrina Hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico, although there has been a lot of restoration work done there's still quite a bit to go. I spoke to a number of energy people from America about this when they were in Sydney for the climate change conference last month and there's still quite a long distance to travel on that.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister thank you very much for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
You're always welcome Neil, thanks.
[ends]