REBECCA CARMODY:
First, to this weekend and what's shaping as a crucial test for the new Opposition Leader, Matt Birney. After a shaky start in his first seven months, the Kalgoorlie MP will make his first appearance as leader at the party's main event - its annual conference. But before the conference even begins there are obvious signs of discord. Today the Prime Minister, who's also attending, rebuffed Mr Birney on two fronts: on his non-position on uranium mining and also stating that Mr Birney's concerns about Canberra taking over Western Australia's industrial relations system were unfounded. All eyes will be on Mr Birney to see how he papers over the differences. I spoke to the Prime Minister earlier about some of the issues for this weekend. Prime Minister, Hello. Welcome to Stateline.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
REBECCA CARMODY:
You used to complain about being very lonely at these COAG meetings, but this week you seemed very much at ease and very much amongst friends. Do you enjoy working with Labor Premiers?
PRIME MINISTER:
I will work with the Premiers elected by the people of the various states; that's my responsibility, and where we can find common ground in Australia's interests, then we should work together. I always accept and respect the verdict of voters, and the voters have decided, for the next period of time, that they want Labor Premiers and a Liberal Prime Minister. And it's our job - it's our duty - to work together. They have that same duty and that same obligation. There's nothing to be achieved by squabbling just because we are politically different. The Australian public has contempt for that.
REBECCA CARMODY:
How important is it to you then that a Liberal Government get up at a state level?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, very important. And, in my political capacity as leader of the federal parliamentary Liberal Party, I will always do everything I can to get Liberal Governments selected. I campaigned very strongly for Colin Barnett in the lead-up to the last state election in Western Australia. I was very disappointed that we didn't win. But I spent time here, both immediately after the federal election and in the days leading up to the state election and, I think it's fair to say that, particularly in the area of assembling financial resources, I was very helpful to the party - I adopt the same attitude. But once an election is over, it's my duty to work with the people who've been chosen. We are a democracy.
REBECCA CARMODY:
Where are the state Liberals going off the rails, though?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, there's no general rule. I think it's very important not to get too dramatic about it. We're doing very well federally.
REBECCA CARMODY:
Do you think that they are being penalised by your success?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I don't believe that. I think the Australian people make separate decisions. There were long periods in the seventies when we had Liberal Governments at both the state and federal level in Western Australia and in Canberra and also in Victoria. There's been a bit of a tendency for New South Wales and Queensland, historically, to vote one way federally - normally coalition - and to vote another way state. But the fact is that people treat state and federal elections differently. Now, we were disappointed in Western Australia. Fortunately, the majority that the Gallop Government has is not insurmountable at the next election.
REBECCA CARMODY:
What would your advice be then to Matt Birney and the Liberal team to position themselves so that they can win in 2009?
PRIME MINISTER:
If I have any advice for Matt and his colleagues, I'd give it to them privately. I would work with them. I think Matt is a very young, energetic leader. He's bringing a lot of energy to the job, and he'll have my full support.
REBECCA CARMODY:
You've met him; do you think he has what it takes to become Premier?
PRIME MINISTER:
I've known him for a long time. I knew his father; his father was a federal colleague of mine between 1975 and 1983. I've known Matt . . . I think I campaigned for him in the seat of Kalgoorlie in the election before last. He had a very good win in 2001. He went against the tide and he also went against the tide last time, and he got a swing that was quite big, so he's obviously got a following in Kalgoorlie, and Kalgoorlie is a very distinctive place.
REBECCA CARMODY:
You said yourself that he is young. Does age matter when parliamentary teams are choosing their leader?
PRIME MINISTER:
No; it doesn't matter at all. It's all about ability. It doesn't matter...
REBECCA CARMODY:
I ask you that question because we've seen spectacular rises and falls from young leaders this year - Mark Latham, John Brogden. You don't think -
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Mark was . . . Latham was what, in his 40s? There've been plenty of leaders of political parties in their 40s. I don't think it matters. It just depends very much on the maturity. Age is irrelevant. Its ability, energy, capacity and balance that matter.
REBECCA CARMODY:
Since you've been in Perth you've been selling your industrial relations changes. How do you hope to convince the broader public when you can't convince the West Australian Liberals?
PRIME MINISTER:
I wouldn't say that I haven't convinced the Western Australian Liberals in the sense of the broader party organisation.
REBECCA CARMODY:
But Matt Birney's very strongly opposed to you using corporations law to get rid of the state-based system. Where's the need to get rid of the state system?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, because the state system is working against the interests of the Western Australian economy. The business community in Perth is very strongly in favour of the federal Government's position - particularly small and medium-sized businesses. I have found stronger support for our industrial relations policy within the Western Australian business community than in some other parts of the country. It's very strong everywhere but there's an entrepreneurial attitude and mien about the Western Australian business community. It's strong; it's go ahead; it sees the advantage of having a national, freer system.
REBECCA CARMODY:
What about if Labor won at a federal level? That's Matt Birney's concern - if Labor had control of the national IR system.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the best way to guarantee we'll never have a Labor industrial relations agenda at a national level is to entrench the changes so that a future Labor Government would do what the Blair Government did in Britain when they inherited the Thatcher Government's changes and told the public that they were good for the economy and therefore they had no intention of changing them. The best guarantee that the alternative policy will not be introduced is to demonstrate to the public that your policy is better.
REBECCA CARMODY:
It's not just the Liberals who are concerned in Western Australia, though; the Nationals have also expressed reservations about your unfair dismissal provisions. Are they too onerous?
PRIME MINISTER:
No; I don't think they're too onerous at all. Look, this is a piece of federal legislation. It has the strong support of the coalition party room in Canberra. We are in office and we have the opportunity, and I know that the business community, particularly people in small business in Perth, very, very strongly support what we're doing and in that way...
REBECCA CARMODY:
Are you prepared to make any concessions?
PRIME MINISTER:
We are more responsive to the feelings of the small and medium-sized business constituency in pressing ahead with what we want to do.
REBECCA CARMODY:
Will you make any concessions?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that implies that there's something extreme or radical about what we're doing. There's nothing extreme. These changes will maintain the momentum of our economic growth. They will result in more jobs. Unfair dismissal laws destroy jobs because they frighten small employers out of taking on more staff.
REBECCA CARMODY:
If a worker is dismissed for no other reason than the boss has a personal dislike for that person, what recourse would that person have?
PRIME MINISTER:
Good, sensible bosses know that the greatest asset they have are good, conscientious staff. No employer...
REBECCA CARMODY:
But that's living in an ideal world, isn't it?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, no. No employer in his right mind is going to get rid of good staff. In all of these things you need a balance. If you over-regulate, you destroy jobs. And the existing unfair dismissal laws are over-regulation. They have been counterproductive and they often work against the interests of the other members of staff who find a bad employee as irksome as does the employer.
REBECCA CARMODY:
You conceded in your speech yesterday that you did need to do more to sell the changes to overcome the union fear campaign. In order to win over the public, why won't you give that guarantee that no worker would be worse off?
PRIME MINISTER:
I can't guarantee what will happen to each of 10 million people over the next few years. Their circumstances might be affected by things over which I have absolutely no control. What I can say is that the combined effect of these changes will be beneficial both for employment and for wage levels. They'll create the circumstances where there'll be more opportunity to reward people at an enterprise level for their work and their contribution to a firm or a business.
REBECCA CARMODY:
Prime Minister, another issue on which you've rankled state Liberals is what they regard by you as an aggressive intrusion into states' rights. Has the Liberal Party under you abandoned its federalist principles?
PRIME MINISTER:
No. I am a passionate Australian nationalist. I'm not a centralist. There's a big difference between a centralist and a nationalist. A centralist is somebody who thinks that Canberra's solution is always the right solution. It's not. Often it's the wrong solution. A nationalist is somebody who believes that the national interest rather than a sectional interest should always holds sway. That's the philosophy I bring. I respect the fact that we are a federation. In, for example, wanting to extend the freedom of our industrial relations policy to the people of Western Australia, I'm not wanting to trample on state's rights; I'm rather wanting to give to the people of Western Australia the same opportunities as others.
REBECCA CARMODY:
One of our very senior Liberals over here, Norman Moore, has suggested secession as an answer to what he sees as your aggressive push into states' rights. What do you make of that idea?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think you should ask me the next question. I don't think anybody would take that very seriously.
REBECCA CARMODY:
Why is that? Doesn't that suggest though that they're dissatisfied?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, it suggests rather that that view is out of touch with reality. I don't find that a seriously expressed view.
REBECCA CARMODY:
He says Western Australia would be one of the most successful countries in the world if it were a separate country. Do you doubt that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, I love Western Australia.
REBECCA CARMODY:
How important is Western Australia to the overall prosperity of the nation?
PRIME MINISTER:
Western Australia is enormously important to the economy of the country. I'm often reminded by Western Australians when I come here that, what with 11 per cent of the population, it contributes 28, 29, 30 per cent of the export income. I've just told a luncheon gathering that the wheat crop in Western Australia, because you've had a lot more rain here, has rescued the national wheat crop yet again. Western Australia is hugely important, but we are a nation. We might once have been a collection of colonies but we are a nation, and I find the commitment of Western Australians to the national interest no less than the commitment of people who come from New South Wales or Victoria.
REBECCA CARMODY:
Should and can the Commonwealth do more to help with infrastructure in Western Australia to keep that resources boom continuing?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we're already doing a great deal. And it's easy for some people in different parts of the country to say the Commonwealth should be doing more. But the States have responsibilities and the States are so much better off now as a result of the GST. State Governments are rolling in money. They have the GST and it's going like that and they get all of the . . . every last dollar of the GST goes to State Governments.
REBECCA CARMODY:
Prime Minister, just before we finish, will you be back next year to address the Liberal Party State Conference?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, I retain a very strong interest in the affairs of the Western Australian Liberal Party. I see that as one of those tricky questions journalists always ask trying to get an answer on my future.
REBECCA CARMODY:
It's worth a try?
PRIME MINISTER:
It's worth a try, yes.
REBECCA CARMODY:
Prime Minister, thanks for joining me.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]