MITCHELL:
But first serious matters, in our Canberra studio the Prime Minister. Mr Howard, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Neil. Have a good morning, sounds a very interesting diversion.
MITCHELL:
It is an interesting diversion, which is exactly why we're doing it.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well done.
MITCHELL:
Seeing what the elephants are having for breakfast would turn your stomach.
PRIME MINISTER:
I'd like to see the portrait.
MITCHELL:
Well you can bid for it if you like. Put it in the National Gallery. Prime Minister, is it correct that if the Opposition continues to block the tax cuts they could be delayed for a year?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well some of them could be delayed for a year, yes.
MITCHELL:
How?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well because unless Parliament gets authority for the new tax schedules to come into operation on the 1st of July, and that can only happen in one of two ways - for the legislation to go through by the 30th of June or for the Opposition to indicate that it will not disallow the new schedules, in which event the Tax Commissioner will advise employers to deduct from salaries in accordance with the reduced taxation announced by the Treasurer. Unless one of those two events goes through, and at the moment the Opposition and the minor parties are saying they're going to vote down the tax cuts and Mr Beazley's refusing to give the assurance sought by the Tax Commission, on that basis unless there's some alteration in that, and that can only happen by Mr Beazley coming to his senses and saying well I'll let them go through, there will be this delay and the closer we get to the 30th of June the more difficult it becomes for employers because they have to fire up their systems to make the deductions, either in accordance with the present tax rates or scales or in accordance with the ones announced in the Budget.
MITCHELL:
And how much money are we talking about here?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you're talking about some hundreds of dollars. I mean ultimately people will get it, but why should they be delayed?
MITCHELL:
Is that total? How much?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it depends on what your income is.
MITCHELL:
No, no but I mean overall, for everybody, how many millions?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the tax cuts are worth... you're looking at a delay of some hundreds of millions. I can't give you the exact figure.
MITCHELL:
It's a pretty important issue obviously, have you spoken privately to Mr Beazley about it or is it just something that's played out in the Parliament?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I haven't spoken privately to him about it. I mean he would say the same thing if we had a private conversation, well I assume he would, it would pretty odd if he didn't.
MITCHELL:
And there's no bureaucratic way around this?
PRIME MINISTER:
No there is no, well it's the law. I mean after all we are dealing with Parliament, if there's a bureaucratic way around this what's the point of having a Parliament?
MITCHELL:
Yeah, that's a fair point.
PRIME MINISTER:
I mean the whole point is that we don't control the Parliament until the 30th of June, but because of the way the tax system works the Tax Commissioner has said that he will anticipate the fact that the Coalition will be able to pass the law, implementing the new tax scales after the 30th of June provided the regulations giving effect to those new tax scales are not disallowed by the current Opposition dominated Parliament. And he will further accept an assurance from the Leader of the Opposition that they will not be disallowed. So I think the Tax Commissioner is going out of this way to accommodate commonsense, but he needs a bit of help from Mr Beazley. And can I just say to Mr Beazley I understand that he's perfectly entitled as an Opposition Leader to argue against our tax cuts, I don't agree with him, I think he's wrong, I think his argument is intellectually flawed but he's got a perfect right to do that. But he really is behaving very negatively by this nuisance gesture, it's a nuisance gesture, it's not, I mean it can't ultimately deny people the tax cuts, it will delay them, it will cause an enormous amount of complexity for small business, it will irritate people but it lacks long term substance, it's not sensible opposition. I could fully understand him having said on Budget night I disagree with these tax scales, I would have done it the following way and I'll give you the details in my reply. That's legitimate opposition. But this is just stupid, guerrilla, nuisance tactics.
MITCHELL:
Guerrilla?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you know...
MITCHELL:
I'm in the right place.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it's nuisance tactics.
MITCHELL:
Which guerrilla? GOR or...
PRIME MINISTER:
Sorry, I'm not as quick as you are, you've been up longer than I have.
MITCHELL:
That's quite right. Well very serious, the incident at the Indonesian Embassy, do you consider that terrorism?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well because it looks as though the substance was not toxic I would drop short of using that word, and I have dropped short of using that word all along. But it's incredible reckless, it is criminal and at the time we first learnt about it it looked as though it might have been toxic, in which event all of the descriptions that we used at that time by both the Government and the Opposition were perfectly legitimate.
MITCHELL:
We can't be accused of overreacting.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it's very easy to say that now. But, hang on, even if it's finally confirmed, as looks likely, that it's not toxic to send something like that with an accompanying note to the embassy of a friendly country in the wake of a controversy involving a citizen of our country and that other country is incredibly irresponsible, it is criminal and I don't think it's an overreaction for the Government to have expressed our regrets and our concern to Indonesia. I don't think that was an overreaction at all. I think actions of this kind can be misunderstood in other countries, they can be misrepresented by people who have negative views about Australia and Indonesia and in those circumstances I don't think the Government overreacted at all. If we'd said 'oh this doesn't matter, or you know it's only powder, or it's only a prank', can you imagine the reaction in Indonesia? Can you imagine the reaction in Australia if this had happened to our Embassy in Indonesia and the staff were put through decontamination and people waited anxiously while laboratory analysis was carried out and if the Indonesian leadership had said oh well it's only a prank, let's not get too worked up about it, I think the reaction of the Australian media and the Australian public would have been, well that's pretty insensitive.
MITCHELL:
I'm a little surprised by the reaction within Indonesian anyway, to suggest this could harm relations with Australia seems to me an overreaction in itself. But when the Bali bomb went off nobody in Australia said well we blame the Indonesian Government.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, in fact to the great credit of the Australian people, when the Bali attack occurred nobody attacked the people of Bali. I was deeply impressed as you must have been in the wake of that at just how many Australians went out of their way to say we don't blame this on the Balinese and we feel very sorry for them and we retain very affectionate attitudes towards the Balinese people. I wouldn't expect that, as things settle down, I wouldn't expect there will be long term damage, but it is a difficult relationship, certainly at a government level I believe the leadership has responded very well and Mr Downer has spoken a couple of times to the Indonesian Foreign Minister and he was with the Indonesian President during the first conversation so in a sense it was a conversation with both. I'm quite optimistic that things will go on in the new positive way that has been the case with that relationship for a long time.
MITCHELL:
Why do you say it's a difficult relationship? Is that perhaps a mistrust, do you think between the peoples of Australia and Indonesia, as distinct from the government?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we've had some differences in the past, and we are very different societies. I mean we are cheek by jowl with a society that's what 10 times our population? It's the most populous Islamic country in the world, the culture is different, the economic structure of the country is different, it has gone through very great change and of course we had the difficulty of East Timor. Now I've always been frank about that, but what has been good, especially over the last year has been the extraordinary improvement in the relationship and certainly I give great credit to President Yudhoyono for that, he's worked very hard on it and he has great goodwill towards Australia, that's evident. So I am confident that, as much as anything else, will iron out any of the difficulties that might otherwise have arisen.
MITCHELL:
Do you think the possibility of retaliation, are you concerned by that and are you concerned by the possibility of more of this sort of action within Australia?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well on retaliation, there certainly won't be any retaliation in any kind of official, I mean certainly not. Look there's always a danger, you've got to understand you're dealing with 220 million people and equally we're dealing with 20 million in Australia, I mean you've got crazy people in this country who will do irresponsible things, we shouldn't be so indifferent to the possibility of this kind of thing happening in the future, it could, I hope it doesn't, but I can't guarantee that people won't behave in an irresponsible way.
MITCHELL:
We'll take a break here, come back with more from the Prime Minister in our Canberra studio.
[commercial break]
MITCHELL:
And at the Melbourne Zoo we've been joined by a bunch of kids, a funny looking owl and koala that's out of its head on eucalyptus leaves, it's so dopey that it's asleep. But the Prime Minister's in our Canberra studio, you'd love it hear Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
It sounds terrific, I'm sorry I'm not in Melbourne today.
MITCHELL:
More fun in the Federal Parliament... Noreen, go ahead please Noreen.
CALLER:
Good morning Prime Minister. Look I'm a nurse that's been... oh look I'm 62 this month, still working. At work the other day I found this flyer on the desk which said the Federal Government's new industrial legislation means that Australians stand to lose. One that mainly concerned me was long service leave?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that's not true. Could you send the flyer to my office?
CALLER:
Yes, certainly.
MITCHELL:
Who's it from Noreen?
CALLER:
The ANF.
PRIME MINISTER:
Long service leave is legislated.
CALLER:
And it says here after 15 years...
PRIME MINISTER:
I would love to see that flyer, I mean I expect a lot of this, a lot of this, misrepresentation but I'm glad you raised it with me, please send it to me and I will write to the body who authorised it, pointing out that they're wrong.
MITCHELL:
Okay Noreen, hold we'll get the details off air and (inaudible) nurses federation. Prime Minister just further on the issue of the Indonesian letter, is it correct that letter didn't name Schapelle Corby?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't want to say what was in the letter because I've been asked by the police not to.
MITCHELL:
Just to talk about the Corby case, are you concerned by the way Australia's reacted, has it been an overreaction in this country? Putting aside the letter, legally has it been an overreaction?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there's no unified legal reaction in Australia. Different people have expressed different view. I do think people have... some people have not allowed for the fact that if a foreigner were tried in an Australian court, we would deeply resent the leadership of that person's country of origin, seeking to interfere in our legal system. It's a well-settled doctrine of international law that if you go to another country and you are alleged to have committed an offence, you are tried according to the laws of that country and that applies both ways.
MITCHELL:
You have expressed some sympathy for her. Do you believe that...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I have expressed sympathy for her either way.
MITCHELL:
Would you believe under our system she....
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I'm not asserting that, I can't and I won't because I wasn't there...
MITCHELL:
...guilt or innocence, I'm talking about doubt?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I can't even, I'm not going to buy into it. I have never at any stage expressed a view as to whether she was guilty or innocent, and I won't do that and I don't think it's responsible of me to do that in my position. And in any event, even if I weren't in my current position, I haven't heard all the evidence and until you actually hear all of the evidence and you're actually there and you observe the behaviour and demeanour of people, you can't really make a proper assessment but I do believe this: that the best thing that anybody can do now is to make sure she gets a decent... the opportunity to put her appeal. And to be talking about clemency and pardons at this particular time, is entirely premature and I do think if everything calms down and her lawyers are able to get on with appeal and she has the best legal talent that is offering and a number of eminent criminal lawyers have offered on a pro bono basis.
MITCHELL:
I think they've been refused though.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I can only express the view that the best thing that can happen is that she has the best opportunities under the criminal justice system as Indonesia.
MITCHELL:
Why the attention? I mean we've just had an Australian sentenced to 20 years in Vietnam, doesn't get any attention. There are two kids in Hong Kong, Australian citizens, the heroin charges. Why...
PRIME MINISTER:
She's a young women, I think many people see her as certainly deporting vulnerability and I mean I'm not a psychoanalyst.
MITCHELL:
Well is the Government concerned about the sentence in Vietnam, this young man, 20 years over a couple of hundred grams of heroin?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we take the view that people go abroad in full knowledge that if they fall foul of the justice system of another country, they've got to deal with it. We do in the case of the imposition of the death penalty make strenuous efforts to secure the commutation of death penalties and clemency, in that respect and we've done that regularly in relation to Vietnam, Singapore and as you'll remember famously back in 1980s in relation to two Australians convicted of drug trafficking in ...
MITCHELL:
Barlow and Chambers.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes Barlow and Chambers, when Bob Hawke was Prime Minister. Now we have that long-standing policy but you have to understand that just as we take a very tough line on drugs, so do the countries of Asia. There shouldn't be any person in this country who is unaware of the fact that if you get caught up with a drug prosecution in Asia, and you are convicted, the penalty will be very severe, including the possibility of death.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister another issue, the airports. The Minister, Mr Anderson, said yesterday that the criticism at Sydney Airport security and criminality were out of date, but in fact he received a letter only last month telling him it was current, now did he mislead the Parliament?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I don't... I haven't had a chance this morning to talk to him about...
MITCHELL:
Well are you (inaudible)
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, well, I am satisfied that over the last year enormous additional steps have been taken. I know to make the airport secure, I know that the American Department of Transport did an audit of our main international airports recently.
MITCHELL:
But on May 19, Max Moore-Wilton, the head of Sydney Airport wrote to John Anderson saying there were problems with security.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I haven't had an opportunity to talk, I'm sorry to, John about that, and until I do, I don't think it's fair of me to comment.
MITCHELL:
Well fair enough but you must be concerned about the Customs report, have you read that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I've read parts of that Customs Report. What I'd say in relation to that is, that I was compiled late in 2003.
MITCHELL:
But Max Moore-Wilton's saying last month, the same thing?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well hang on, I can't say whether it's the same thing or not, when I've not had an opportunity to talk to Anderson, I mean I will do that and obviously if there's something further that needs to be done it will. But can I just say the American Transportation Department gave them a clean bill of health and the man who was the Director of Security at the Sydney Olympic Games, a man called Fergus said that he would be hard stretched to find international airports anywhere in the world that have the safety standards of the Australian ones. Now they're not bad endorsements and on top of that, John has said for more abundant caution he's going to get an international security exert to come here and do yet another audit of the security and safety arrangements at our airports.
MITCHELL:
Okay you're meeting the Premiers today. It's reported they'll be a deal to sort of fast track apprentices, is that correct?
PRIME MINISTER:
I hope we can get a deal to do a number of things, perhaps shorten the apprenticeship periods, certainly make sure that if you get a trade qualification in one part of the country you can work without impediment and without going through another exam or test in any other part of the country and I hope that we'll have uniform approach to school-based apprentices.
MITCHELL:
And how much do you want to reduce apprenticeships by?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well certainly in some cases people argue that four years is too long, it should go down to three, that's something that we need to get a bit of advice on but there's a general feeling that they're a bit too long.
MITCHELL:
Child pornography there as well?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there are some areas where it's suggested we could make it even tighter and I'm happy to discuss that.
MITCHELL:
The industrial relations powers, the States...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I will ask them but I don't think they'll hand them over.
MITCHELL:
So what happens then?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we will legislate using the corporations power, which we have the authority to do. Can I just make the point that the industrial relations powers were handed over in Victoria in 1996 and the sky hasn't fallen in.
MITCHELL:
Well I'd say both sides have been blaming each other when ever there's a fight though, whenever there's industrial action...
PRIME MINISTER:
What in Victoria?
MITCHELL:
Yeh, they're saying it's the Federal Government's fault and the Federal Government says it's their fault? We had a couple of classic cases of that last year, it was a mess.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I still don't find Mr Bracks asking for the powers back.
MITCHELL:
What do you say to the 1 million people who will now reportedly miss out on the safety net because of your broken promise?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they would have no safety net at all if the Labor Party's policy were implemented. No safety net at all.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister with respect, you promised (inaudible) and that promise is broken and a million people are affected.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, what you're saying is that not as many people will benefit as would have benefited if the safety net had been more generous, I acknowledge that but you have to look at the reasonableness of what is available and we have a safety net which from the 1st of January next year, will still mean that anybody who's on a concession card, or who's getting a Family Tax Benefit and that's I think about 9 out of 10 families, if their out-of-pocket expenses reach $500 in a year, they will have 80 per cent of the excess reimbursed by Medicare. Now they wouldn't get any of that if the alternative were in operation. Now okay, it's not as generous as it previously was because it was $316 and not $500, and for the rest of us it was previously $710 or something, now it will $1000. Now okay that is not as generous as originally stated but it is nonetheless a change of degree, it's not a fundamental change, we still have a very generous safety net and if the Labor Party had won the last election, there would have been no safety net at all.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister just quickly have you seen the letter from supporters of Peter Halloran, the Victorian policeman in jail, or facing charges still in Sierra Leone? They've written to you, is that right?
PRIME MINISTER:
I haven't seen it, no.
MITCHELL:
And did Peter Costello lobby hard for Victoria to get the ship building deal?
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm not a liberty to talk about the detail of a National Security Committee meeting, except to say that...
MITCHELL:
(inaudible) on our side.
PRIME MINISTER:
No Victoria was very fairly treated. Well I don't talk about NSC meetings but let me say this, Peter did not let Victoria down. Peter has never let Victoria down in the representations fairly made but at the end of the day, I never go into a Cabinet meeting batting for New South Wales because I was born in Sydney. I never have and I never will because I don't believe you should operate that way. And at the end of the day we made a decision and that decision was based on a unanimous recommendation, it really was, and it would not have been good Government given the recommendations on the factual issues that we had before us, for us to have made any other decision.
MITCHELL:
Thank you very much for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]