MIKE CARLTON:
Well today on this grey and wet day, the nation is in grief and shock this morning. Our flag is at half mast, and mourning the loss of those fine young Australians of the Defence Force, killed as I said earlier, in the service - not just of their country but in the wider service of humanity. The Prime Minister joins me now on the line from Canberra, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Mike.
MIKE CARLTON:
Thank you for your time and can I ask you first how and where did you hear the news?
PRIME MINISTER:
I heard the news from my Chief of Staff who was telephoned by General Cosgrove probably about 7.45 on Saturday night. I was at Kirribilli House, I'd just had dinner. I was in fact watching Super 12.
MIKE CARLTON:
Were you?
PRIME MINISTER:
And the phone call came from Arthur, my Chief of Staff, he said that General Cosgrove had rung him and said that a helicopter had gone down and there were eleven people on it and at that stage they didn't have any information about causalities. It really rocked me and...
MIKE CARLTON:
It must have come like hammer blow.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well terrible because these poor people were doing good things, you say in the name not only of our country but humanity. It is just so heartbreaking that people should die doing the decent humanitarian thing. It is terrible and I think the whole nation is just rocked to the core and I feel so desperately sorry for their loved ones, their parents, and wives and girlfriends. It is just an awful tragedy and it will rock the Defence Force. It won't of course shake them from their course - they'll go on as they always do and there will be a full inquiry. We'll find out why the accident happened - I don't know, I have no idea and it's useless at this stage for me to speculate and I don't intend to do so, but it is a major tragedy and it is just so poignant that it happened.
MIKE CARLTON:
What do you do after you hear news, you're the Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well what I did, I went and told my wife and we were both quite literally devastated by it because we have followed the various missions of our Defence Forces as I must. I mean I am ultimately responsible - it's my, you know, decision - it's the decisions I take that whether they're deployed abroad on military missions or whether they're deployed abroad on humanitarian missions. In the end I take those decisions. I mean I consult with colleagues obviously, but in the end I have to carry that responsibility and I accept that it's part of the job. I of course, as the evening wore on, I took more and more phone [calls] - you know we had a succession of phone calls, just confirming what was happening and General Cosgrove had of course been notified of it within minutes because I think it occurred at something like 7.37 Eastern Standard Time and I think I would have heard it about 7.45pm.
MIKE CARLTON:
Does that responsibility weigh heavily, it must at times?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it does, but it goes with the job and you just try and make conscientious decisions. It's very sad - the ship was coming home and then it had had some leave and then we decided in the light of what had happened, to send it back and that was the right thing to do and that was something that people supported. The crew had had some leave in Singapore. I can only say to Captain McGuire and all the other members of the ship's company, how much we feel for them and how difficult the next few days and weeks will be but they want to go on with their mission. General Cosgrove has spoken to the ship's Captain at length and they do want to go on with their mission.
MIKE CARLTON:
Were you aware, are you aware that that was the very same helicopter in which you flew, only two weeks ago when you were in Aceh?
PRIME MINISTER:
Somebody told me that last night - I didn't know that at the time I mean it is coincidence, but it's no more than that, I didn't know that at the time.
MIKE CARLTON:
Yes. There has been some talk around the media today that these Sea King helicopters are old and perhaps beyond their use by date, have you got any view on that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they are old but they are widely used around the world. The Australian Military is not the only military that uses them. They are regularly checked, they are regarded as very reliable and very strong. I mean all aircraft in a sense are old. You do keep airframes for quite a while because of the cost that is involved in them but they are regularly checked and there's no suggestion that this aircraft wasn't other than very airworthy. However, there will be a full inquiry, the military will conduct it, I know it will be open. I've discussed that in general terms with General Cosgrove - it is a matter for the military because they have their own inquiry system, as well as their own military justice system. They'll establish it and we'll just see what comes out of that but there won't be any impediment put in the way of finding out exactly what happened.
MIKE CARLTON:
Right well I assume too there will be full military or naval airforce funerals for them...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well yes those things are being discussed. At the moment it's likely at this stage that the bodies will be returned to Australia tomorrow afternoon or Wednesday morning, that is still being worked out by the ADF. There will be every appropriate honour paid to these nine men and women.
MIKE CARLTON:
I mean I think the hard thing is that they are so young aren't they?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, well that's the terrible thing about something like this; they're young - its when soldiers and sailors and airmen die. They normally die young because they are young - it's a young man and a young woman's job and that makes it all the more heartbreaking.
MIKE CARLTON:
Prime Minister business goes on, the Indonesian President arrived in Australia last night. I understand that he offered his sympathies too did he?
PRIME MINISTER:
He did, he rang me yesterday morning before he left Jakarta, to offer his sympathy, and he again said that last night and I am sure that he will refer to this terrible tragedy in his speech at Parliament House today.
MIKE CARLTON:
Well isn't it true, we are two neighbours united in grief aren't we, the tsunami, the earthquake in Indonesia, [inaudible] Bali and this for us?
PRIME MINISTER:
This terrible tragedy has bound us together - we would passionately want it otherwise but that is how it has occurred.
MIKE CARLTON:
Will you be hoping for some sort of security treaty or agreement with the Indonesians?
PRIME MINISTER:
I would expect that we'd make a general declaration about things that we have in common, including moving towards a security understanding, I would expect that to happen. It is not something that we are going to conclude overnight and but the state of relations between the two countries is much better than what it was.
MIKE CARLTON:
I don't think it's ever been warmer.
PRIME MINISTER:
I think that's right, I think it's and the important thing to remember is that this is democratic Indonesia. This man...
MIKE CARLTON:
Democratically elected.
PRIME MINISTER:
Democratically elected. It is very different from what it was for a long time and Indonesia's not received enough credit for the transformation to a very democratic country.
MIKE CARLTON:
Yes. This will be a very difficult topic but there is also this young woman in Bali, Schapelle Corby.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes that is, I understand that.
MIKE CARLTON:
Will you be asking?
PRIME MINISTER:
I mean I will deal with it appropriately. Bear in mind that she is before the courts - we would resent the President of Indonesia telling us what the Supreme Court of NSW should decide if an Indonesian citizen were charged with a crime.
MIKE CARLTON:
Yes.
PRIME MINISTER:
And I...
MIKE CARLTON:
But at the same time, would you suggest to the Prime Minister, very delicately, diplomatically, [inaudible] death penalty?
PRIME MINISTER:
Let me, well we have a long standing opposition to the death penalty.
MIKE CARLTON:
Yes.
PRIME MINISTER:
But, and, time to express views about the application of the death penalty to people to whom it might be applied is... If they're convicted and if the penalty's imposed that is, it is... I mean we are making, have made representations to the Singaporean President about a death penalty there, and we would apply the same principal in any other country.
MIKE CARLTON:
Okay. Another unrelated question about [inaudible] Prime Minister, the Pope's funeral which may be on Thursday, who will represent Australia there?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it depends on exactly when it is. I would like to go because of the enormous significance of this man to the history of the world and out of respect to the Catholic community in Australia. However it is just depending on when it is that will govern whether I can go or not.
MIKE CARLTON:
I think it is Thursday at the moment, would that be possible?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well no, that would not be possible, because I have the Malaysian Prime Minister in Australia on Thursday.
MIKE CARLTON:
You've one hell of a week.
PRIME MINISTER:
Indeed.
MIKE CARLTON:
Yes, a very sad week. Prime Minister thank you very much indeed for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you. Bye bye.
MIKE CARLTON: Good to talk to you. John Howard the Prime Minster there.
[ends]