MURRAY:
Good morning Prime Minister John Howard is in Perth for the last days of campaigning in the state election. There are plenty of commentators who say that Colin Barnett is drowning in his Kimberley water canal plan but the Prime Minister is yet to throw him a life raft. John Howard is in the studio to take your calls 9221 1882 is the number to call. Good morning Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Paul.
MURRAY:
Prime Minister, can we start on national matters and then we'll get to the WA election campaign. Why won't you guarantee not to send any more troops to Iraq, after this latest commitment which more than doubles our contingent? It's starting to sound like Iraq could become a bottomless pit for our Defence Forces?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it won't become a bottomless pit but I am just exercising proper caution. I don't think that it is at all likely that we will send any more people but I am not going to get into this business of giving absolute guarantees and having everything I say on it analysed in the future. I am simply saying that we've had reasons to change our earlier view that we wouldn't send a significant number of additional troops and I have explained those reasons. As to the future, I think its highly unlikely because we will now have quite a significant commitment there but to ask me to say absolutely will you guarantee under all circumstances - when I don't know what the situation may be in the future - would be a mistake. But that does not mean that I believe the situation is deteriorating. In fact, as a result of the election, I think the situation is getting better in Iraq and I believe the contribution that we are going to make will of course ensure that our major regional partner, Japan, stays in Iraq. It will ensure that we make a contribution to training which is so important to the eventual handover to the Iraqis. Everybody says the foreigners should eventually get out. They can't get out unless they leave behind a well trained army and police force and can I say that criticism that's coming from the opposition is just so muddled and flawed, as to be laughable.
MURRAY:
When you made your announcement, you conceded that it could be unpopular; do you think it has been?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think the reaction has been mixed, and I expected that. What I think has also been mixed is the opposition's criticism. The opposition is now contradicting itself. When I made the announcement at the beginning (you remember they accused me of misleading the public about this matter before the election) the implication in that charge was that we had contemplated this commitment before the election and we hadn't come clean. Now that was the original charge (which was false) but the charge in the last 24 hours has now radically altered. They are now saying we rushed it, that we decided it at the last minute. Well Kim Beazley you cannot have it both ways.
MURRAY:
Well he's obviously dropped his first line.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well he is trying. This is Mr Beazley on every issue - he walks both sides of the street. He sort of test runs both sides of the argument and if it doesn't work, he then changes to another argument. Now the truth is that we did not have this in contemplation at the time of the election and what I said at the time of the election was an honest statement of the government's position and it is true that it is only in the past few weeks that the government has decided to make this commitment as a result of a number of factors including the very successful outcome of the election in Iraq and the belief that we really should be providing the Iraqis with reassurance and reinforcement as a result of that courageous exercise in democracy, the involvement of the Japanese and the assessment of all the military experts that we needed to put a greater emphasis on training. Now when you take all those factors into account obviously there is a very strong case for the commitment and it has been given a lot of thought but the change of heart has occurred in recent weeks.
MURRAY:
In making these decisions is public support important to you?
PRIME MINISTER:
The most important thing is whether we believe it is right in the long term interests in Australia. That is the dominant consideration. I don't do polls on these things Paul, I don't, what I do is I sit down and I think about it, I listen to people's views and I gave this matter a great deal of personal thought. I remember the trip home from Singapore when I knew that we had to address this issue when I returned home but I gave the matter a great deal of thought but at that stage we certainly hadn't taken a decision and indeed, as Mr Downer's pointed out this morning, we were not disposed to change our position.
MURRAY:
Is it true that Japan could have pulled out of its operation in southern Iraq if we hadn't committed to replace those 1400 Netherlands troops?
PRIME MINISTER:
It is true that Japan could and I think would have pulled out if somebody hadn't provided the security. Now if we had not filled the bill then may be somebody else would have I don't know.
MURRAY:
But Prime Minister Koizumi put the weights on you specifically.
PRIME MINISTER:
The Japanese Prime Minister doesn't put the weights on me any more than any...
MURRAY:
Well they...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well let's get our views understood. We are under no obligation to anybody except the Australian people and to make a decision that we think is good for Australia. I certainly take into account Japan's close relationship with Australia, I certainly take into account the importance of Japan as a regional partner and again if I can flick back to the opposition leader - he is all the time saying we have got to give priority to the region. Our dominant partner in the region is still Japan and keeping a regional power like Japan involved in Iraq is very important.
MURRAY:
I am just trying to work out where the weight of this decision came from, is it because of our alliance with Japan because you've made much of this regional alliance in this decision or whether it was once again our alliance with the United States.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well if the Americans, lets be clear about this. The Americans would clearly be very happy with this decision. And the Americans all along I know, would like as many forces as we are prepared to deploy because they have a great respect for them. Australian forces are second to none. They are the best in the world, they are tremendous forces and people have a great regard for them. But the Americans knew that our position was; having committed forces along with only Britain at the sharp end of the operation, back in March 2003, we said we wouldn't have a large peace keeping force there and that maintained our position, maintained as our position and the Americans respected that and they didn't approach us at a political level. There may have been exchanges at a military level; I mean that goes on all the time. But certainly when George Bush rang me just after I returned from Banda Aceh, he didn't raise the issue. He talked about Iraq - he was clearly as pleased as I was that there had been a successful election in Iraq and said we've been part of making that possible - but he didn't raise the issue of further deployment. But obviously he will be very pleased about it. Obviously the British, who did raise it with us because they have overall responsibility for this particular province in Iraq, they are obviously very pleased about it in terms of the alliance with both of our traditional allies that this decision will be welcome. But the thing that really had a big influence on me was the election and the Japanese consideration and also the training aspect. I mean I'd been conscious for some time, of the desirability of putting a greater emphasis on training and a senior American General went to Iraq some weeks ago and his assessment was that the coalition should try and shift as much as possible the emphasis towards training.
MURRAY:
What's your response to the reports this morning that the ADF, the Australian Defence Force's aren't ready to deploy 450 troops and will struggle to get them to Iraq on time?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well General Cosgrove was interviewed on the Today Show about that and he responded and made it very clear that they would be ready.
MURRAY:
The Netherlands pulled out of course, 1400 troops because of domestic pressure at home, they lost two soldiers, it's a dangerous part of the world, would your resolve falter if we started to lose soldiers down there.
PRIME MINISTER:
Look I hope that we don't lose soldiers and I am not going to answer questions propositioned on taking Australian casualties. I hope and pray we don't take any casualties. Any part of Iraq is dangerous, although this part of Iraq is a lot less dangerous and a lot more benign than other parts of Iraq, particularly the Sunni Triangle. The Dutch had been there for two years, to be fair to them, and that was a very significant deployment. We won't be doing everything that the Dutch were doing; we will be providing a secure environment for the Japanese and we will also be engaged in training. The rest of securing the province will be conducted by the British.
MURRAY:
I'd like a West Australian matter just before we get to the calls 92211882 if you want to speak to the Prime Minister. There was an expectation in some quarters, you'd come to WA with an open cheque book for the canal project. Have you sold Colin Barnett down the river by not getting in behind the canal with a solid financial commitment?
PRIME MINISTER
Certainly not. The sensible, the correct thing for the Commonwealth to do is to say to Western Australia, which I have, if you want access to our Water Fund of $2 billion dollars, sign the National Water Initiative because a state that hasn't signed the National Water Initiative is not entitled to share in that $2 billion dollars now Dr Gallop has not signed the National Water Initiative and by doing that he has locked Western Australia out of a share so the first step is to sign the National Water Initiative. Colin Barnett has said he will do that and when that occurs, then Western Australia and the Commonwealth will sit down and if Mr Barnett wins on Saturday, I am quite sure that the first thing he will do in contact with the Commonwealth will be to come to me and say can we talk about Commonwealth support for the canal project and I will be very happy to do that and we'll look at the thing fairly and sympathetically but its not selling somebody down the river to say that we will look at the project, we will discuss it sympathetically. I think it is bold and visionary, I think he's captured the imagination of the Western Australian public.
MURRAY:
But in the context of this election campaign where he floundering on this, you could have come here with a fist full of dollars, you could have changed the dynamic of ...
PRIME MINISTER:
Paul, Paul, one has to follow what is a proper process and that is the proper process. A state opposition announces a commitment to a project and he said that if he wins he will build it, full stop. Now I understand that and he is perfectly within his rights to make that commitment. I would certainly want to see if the Commonwealth could provide some financial assistance and the right thing to do is to say, as I have said, we are sympathetic, we think its bold, we think its visionary. I am ready, once Western Australia signs the National Water Initiative, to talk money.
MURRAY:
Let's take some calls Prime Minister; Dorothy from Calista is first, good morning Dorothy.
CALLER:
Good morning Paul. Good morning Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Dorothy.
CALLER:
I am talking about the water business. Well in 1980 if you remember we had a very bad time in Western Australia. There was no rain and we were only allowed to water after 6.00pm by hand. The place was a real dust bowl so they got in touch with an engineer in England (but I can't remember his name cause it's a long time ago) and he came out here and he advised them to do almost the same as what they are going to do now or wanting to do but to tap into the water from the Ord, bring it down here and Colin Barnett told him that he didn't know what he was talking about so they packed him off back to England so that is quite a long time ago but...
PRIME MINISTER:
But bear in mind I don't think Colin was a senior Minister in 1980,
MURRAY:
He wasn't [inaudible]
PRIME MINISTER:
I think that was the end of...
MURRAY:
End of the Court era.
PRIME MINISTER:
End of the Charlie Court, Ray O'Connor became...
MURRAY:
For one year.
PRIME MINISTER
Premier in '81...
MURRAY:
Yeah. Labor won in '83.
PRIME MINISTER:
And Burke, well '81 or '82 and Burke won in '83, I don't think Colin would even have been in the Parliament then.
MURRAY:
No he wasn't.
PRIME MINISTER:
I mean I'm not an expert on that English visitor, but...
MURRAY:
I think Dorothy might have been talking of the 90s. Alex in Marne, g'day Alex.
CALLER:
Yes, g'day Paul. Mr Howard, welcome to sunny Perth.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
CALLER:
I want to talk to you about important things in life, leisure time. You won me over in the early days of your prime ministership as a cricket lover when you were responsible for getting the Australia/South African tour on free to air. So can you please do your best to look after the Aussie battler so we can watch the ultimate in cricket - the upcoming Ashes tour?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I hope that Australians can see it on free to air. I am talking to a number of people about it and I hope that that will be productive. I don't want to say any more than to express my desire that it be available for as many Australians as possible, and that means having it free to air. It's not an easy issue because you can't ignore commercial considerations. On the other hand, like you and many other people listening there is something quite special about an Ashes contest and it will be a very good series. The Englishmen are better now than they were a couple of years ago. I watched quite a bit of the test series in South Africa between the Englishmen and the Springboks and the Englishmen played very well. I don't believe they'll beat us but they will give us a good run for our country and I think it'll be a great contest. So I hope it's available for millions of Australians to watch.
MURRAY:
Rod Marsh has got to be responsible for.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it's a beautiful demonstration of the globalisation of the world that Perth's own is coaching the Englishmen.
MURRAY:
Are you prepared to give some money to the ABC to help them out?
PRIME MINISTER:
At this stage because I'm in discussion with a number of people I won't show my hand on that. But look could I just say to all your listeners, within reason the Government will do everything it can to see that this comes about, but it's not easy.
MURRAY:
You might have made the Editor of the West Australian smile with that comment. Margaret in Redcliffe, go Margaret.
CALLER:
Good morning Paul, good morning Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning.
CALLER:
Mine is a little bit different, I don't know whether you realise that we are in this country overrun with diabetics.
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm aware of the problem and the link with obesity and bad eating habits.
CALLER:
Well do you realise that you people are now going to... this Lantus which has come on the market for diabetics, which is the only thing you can have. I'm on Humalog which is, they reckon they're going to take that off the list as well, the PBS. But if you go on the Lantus which is going to cost $100 for some people, which can't afford it. I'm old age. I'm on insulin twice a day, and I've been on this Humalog. I've been diabetic 20-odd years; diabetic insulin for about six years, but this Humalog just suits me, it does me very well. I'm well with it. Now if you take that off me, which a lot of other people will be on it too, it just involves other problems. This was in the paper yesterday, a lack of insulin funding will...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well can I have a look at that and if you leave your name and address with the station. I don't know the details of it. I won't waste your time by giving you a waffling answer. If you give your name and address to the station I will find out and I'll get somebody to be in touch with you.
MURRAY:
Margaret hang on the line and talk to Tracey and Claire and they'll fix you up with those details. Tony in Hamersley, good morning Tony.
CALLER:
Good morning Paul, good morning Prime Minister. Prime Minister, I just want to find out your views on the possible purchase of a water cannon and what you think the values are in buying a cannon to be spraying teenagers and possibly workers who'll be protesting against draconian industrial relations laws, which could be introduced by the Colin Barnett Government.
MURRAY:
Are you aware of this?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'm aware of it. Look, that's part of his law and order policy and I'm not going to criticise it. And can I just say this, that he's not going to introduce measures that will in any way interfere with the right of people to protest. I know him well enough and no Liberal Government is going to use unfair responses to people who protest.
MURRAY:
He made it clear on this programme last week when I talked about this that he's talking about giving people a dousing, not knocking them over...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I mean I'm aware of it but I'm not aware of all the detail of it and that's why I'm going to refrain from a further observation.
MURRAY:
Sue in Joondalup, hi Sue.
CALLER:
Yes hi there. Look I just wanted to just ask you the initiatives there with the single mothers leading to work once the kids are five, which I think is great. I'm dying to get out to work. The problem, particularly over here with this Labor Government, they've brought in an extra week of school holidays and it's just very, very hard to, you know most of us don't have rellies and grandmas to look after the kids, that means I can't get a job where I've got 14 weeks holiday.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I understand that, I do understand that. What we are examining is what changes might be desirable to help sole parents get back into the workforce. We need to increase the number of people who are in the workforce because we're running out of workers. It is good from a personal point of view, as well an economic point of view, but more importantly from a personal point of view for sole parents as their children get a bit older to be given greater opportunities to work. But we're not in the business of forcing people to do that and the care of their children will remain the dominate consideration. But we are looking at ways of changing this and whether we can provide greater help, greater incentive, greater opportunities for parents to go back into the workforce. Now the question of how long school holidays should be has always I guess been one of those things that parents have half joked and been half serious about. I mean on one hand it's a wonderful opportunity for children to have holidays. I certainly remember as a kid school holidays were fantastic, and these days you have what four terms? So is that more holidays...
MURRAY:
What's happened is that the Gallop Government put all the teacher free days, the teacher's (inaudible) days together at the end of the year, it's effectively added an extra week to the holidays and made it hard for working parents.
CALLER:
Plus they gave them an extra two...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it's difficult that, it is difficult. I think there's a lot that we could do to make teacher conditions more flexible and give more incentive to those who are very committed and perhaps change some of the rigidity in the system. But that's a large subject which we can't talk about. But as far as we're concerned, the aim is to provide greater opportunities and greater incentives for workforce participation, but certainly not to force single parents to do things that are detrimental to their children.
MURRAY:
We've debated this long and hard earlier in the week about your proposed welfare changes. There are 230,000 I think sole parents with children over the age of five and it looks like you're looking at that as your cut off age. It was pointed out by several callers that these people in the main would be unskilled workers where it looks like our job shortage is actually in skilled workers, so how would that help?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you wouldn't ignore the possibility of giving them skills. I mean most people who are unskilled, providing they're given the right help and they have the right application, can acquire skills. And one of the aims that we must have in this whole area is to give people who don't have skills the requisite skills so they can re-enter the workforce at a different level.
MURRAY:
Would you also have to increase childcare places if you were doing something as massive as that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we are increasing childcare places, that could be part of the equation, yes it could be.
MURRAY:
Another caller for you Prime Minister, Alan in Greenland, g'day Alan.
CALLER:
Good morning Paul, good morning Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning.
CALLER:
Prime Minister, firstly thank you for your leadership of Australia over the last decade and I hope that for many, many years to come you will continue as our statesman. But Prime Minister, I'm an engineer and what really concerns me is we're already running out of water, in 2030 our population increases by 50 per cent, in 2050 it's doubled. We cannot continue to build desal plants (inaudible)...
PRIME MINISTER:
Desalination plants?
CALLER:
Yes. That's right. And the Kimberly Canal is certainly a feasible scheme, so I would just love to get your reassurance once again that you will support Mr Barnett's vision?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well what we're going to do is sit down with him, if he wins, and discuss it, sympathetically and positively and on the basis that we do think it's a bold plan and we'll be very keen to do that as soon as he's ready.
MURRAY:
Prime Minister, Dr Gallop made a statement in response to a statement you made in Parliament that the Federal Government's policies were the things responsible for Western Australia's...
PRIME MINISTER:
And the hard work of Western Australians.
MURRAY:
Well he actually said that you should apologise to West Australia...
PRIME MINISTER:
I mean really. I made it plain that the hard work of West Australians... the economic success of this country is due to overwhelmingly the efforts of Australians, whether they live it here or elsewhere in the country. The point I was making, and I'll make it again, is that the running of the economy and the health of the economy is largely the responsibility of the Federal Government. Now I can tell you every Premier I've known in 30 years, Labor or Liberal, if the economy is doing badly they say oh that's Canberra's fault and if the economy is doing well they say oh well not withstanding this, that and the other from Canberra we've managed to keep the state afloat. Now the reality is that the economic settings are predominately the federal responsibility and sure, the Western Australian economy is doing well at the moment, so is the Tasmanian economy, so is the Queensland economy, because the whole of the Australian economy is doing well. And I was simply making the point that it's a bit rich for a Premier like Dr Gallop who is ready to blame Canberra even for his own direct failings should be saying well Western Australia is doing well because my, i.e. Gallop's, brilliant economic management. I was just correcting him and pointing out that they can't have it both ways, they can't blame us when it goes badly and claim the credit when it goes well.
MURRAY:
Your interest rates campaign in the federal election campaign made it very clear how sensitive Australians are to it. The Reserve Bank, all pundits say the Reserve Bank will put up interest rates probably next month. If they do that will Australians then think that you've let them down?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I think Australians would want interest rates to stay as low as possible. What I said in the election campaign, and I would have said on this programme, is that interest rates would always be lower under the Coalition than under Labor. When I was asked "does that mean you guarantee there'll be no increases in interest rates?" I said no, what it means is I don't give specific guarantees in relation to particular movements, what I was guaranteeing was that they'd always be lower under us than under them. Now you remember they went to 17 per cent, that's the figure indelibly fixed in people's minds. What are they now? Seven per cent. And there's speculation about some movements of a quarters of a per cent. Now I don't know whether that will happen or not, that's a matter for the bank. You only have to quote those figures to make the point. There's no way that I can give a guarantee that there'll be no movements at all over the next there years and I didn't attempt to that, what I said say, and I repeat and you can go back over my transcripts, you won't find that guarantee anywhere but you will find repeated statements that our policy would always keep interest rates much lower.
MURRAY:
Got time for one last quick caller, we've only got about a minute and a half left. Len in Beechboro, hi Len.
CALLER:
G'day how are you Paul?
MURRAY:
Good mate, you need to hurry up.
CALLER:
Yes, Prime Minister, what gives you the right to more or less dictate that our troops, friends and relatives should be sent over to be shot at by Saddam Hussein's insurgents when those same people are given no say at all about this?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Sir, it's the right and the role of the executive government to take these decisions and if we displease the public in taking those decisions they will of course punish us at the ballot box. But it's never been the role of government and the practice of government when it takes these decisions to conduct a referendum to see whether the majority of people support the decision or not. I know a lot of people will disagree. I think a lot of people will agree reluctantly because nobody likes people being put in danger and I don't enjoy the decision. It's a very difficult, grave decision to take. But it's the right decision and I'm sure that in the fullness of time that will demonstrated.
MURRAY:
Prime Minister, great to talk to you again, thanks for your time today.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]