BARTLETT:
Well first up today here to campaign for the state Liberal party is their federal leader Prime Minister John Howard, Prime Minister, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Liam, great to be back in Western Australia again.
BARTLETT:
Nice to see you here, how's that halo going, glowing bright?
PRIME MINISTER:
Somebody else used that expression. I have a very realistic view of political popularity - it's very transient and fickle. I try and do my job and whenever I see an approval rating go up, I worry because you know it can only go in one direction and that's down.
BARTLETT:
Well Geoff Gallop has used that hasn't he on numerous occasions he said he was worried about the Howard halo effect so it looks as though you must have given it a bit of a spit and polish before you came over.
PRIME MINISTER:
This election will be very close. It will be determined by state issues. The federal government did well in Western Australian in October. We did very well and I felt that in the lead up to the election; that we were going to do well in Western Australia. You could sense the strong support that was flowing towards the federal government. I didn't quite get that same feeling in some other parts of Australia but I certainly got it here in Western Australia. But this state election, like all state elections will be determined overwhelmingly by state issues because the Western Australian economy is very good, very very good indeed but that is because the national economy is very good. State governments can't have it both ways - they can't when things are very good say look at this fantastic Western Australia or Queensland or New South Wales economy but when things are doing badly, say quite rightly that the state of the economy is the responsibility of the national government and there are things that State governments can do that will have a difference...
BARTLETT:
Sure..
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh they make difference, there is a margin...
BARTLETT:
You must believe there is some...
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh yes there are some, there are...
BARTLETT:
Otherwise you wouldn't be here...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, but there are some decisions that state governments can take which will add to or subtract from the health of the economy generated by national conditions and clearly in an area like industrial relations I believe that Western Australia could be doing even better if they had not abandoned over the last four years, the industrial relations reforms of the Court government and I hope that if Mr Barnett wins, and I believe that if he does win that he will re-embrace those reforms, I think that will be very good for the economy in Western Australia.
BARTLETT:
It's a party thing though isn't it; it's an alignment of the party rather than the personal. I mean Geoff Gallop and Kim Beazley, make no mistake, [inaudible] hide their light under the bush although they admit they are both mates, they are both...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they are mates, they were at university, I am not attacking ...
BARTLETT:
How much do you know about Colin Barnett?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am not as close to Colin as Beazley is to Gallop because Beazley and Gallop were mates at university, I think Tony Blair was there too, wasn't he? So there's quite a good association going back, although they appear to have parted company on a number of issues in recent months but we'll come to that perhaps in a moment but none the less that's just an accident of personal circumstance. I have a job with Colin, I have found him to be a very determined and resilient person, he's a person who is not as well known as the Premier because he's not the Premier but he's become well known in this campaign. I think he's been very bold about the canal, I really do because it is a big issue, people want a solution to the water problem, it's a great concept. If he wins he will sign the National Water Initiative on behalf of Western Australia and then he will become and the Western Australian government will become eligible for federal funding under our Water Funds plan and we will be happy to sit down and talk about this project.
BARTLETT:
I want to ask you more about the canal in a moment; did you think any of the potentially positive rub off from your presence will be dented for the state party by the announcement to send more troops to Iraq?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't believe so, people would see that as a national issue, I don't believe so, but that decision is the right decision, it was taken at the right time and is an announcement that given the decision had been taken, had to be made.
BARTLETT:
Making that announcement only days out from the first state election since the federal poll you don't think it will have any effect?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't believe it will, no I don't believe it will have any effect either way. I am not saying it's going to add to the Liberal's chances of winning. I don't think it will detract. People will say, well that's a decision, overwhelmingly, of a national kind which the national government has taken and if we support it or oppose it we are not going to let it affect the way we vote in the state election.
BARTLETT:
Prime Minister you're often described as a wily operator. I've left the old out of there you will notice.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, thank you.
BARTLETT:
Now take the water canal, now you would never have committed to an election promise of that magnitude without it being bullet proof, would you?
PRIME MINISTER:
You are dealing with a situation where water is a burning issue everywhere in the country no matter where I go in Australia people worry and talk about water shortages and this is the largest of our states and its been an old age dream, a long standing dream, now I am using the word age too, to try and bring water from the north to the south of the state. Now there is a new engineering concept involved in this canal. I am not entirely ignorant of the proposal. I was in fact briefed about the proposal by the Tenix company some months ago, in fact it was in July or August of last year, now they have developed it and they're very skilled engineers and I am interested in the project and I would like to sit down with Colin Barnett and talk about any federal involvement if he wins and there can't be any federal involvement unless and until Western Australia signs the National Water Initiative.
BARTLETT:
You can't tell us this morning exactly what level of commitment you are willing to give to the canal process?
PRIME MINISTER:
But what I can tell you is that we are sympathetic to the concept and we are very keen to sit down and discuss it, but obviously until ....
BARTLETT:
But in the world of politics, I mean that's nothing.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no I am sorry it is something; it is quite a lot in fact, in the world of politics if I were to say this is a crazy hair brained idea then you'd know that we'd reject it.
BARTLETT:
Well in fact as you know, the Labor campaign ads for Labor the campaign full of you and Peter Costello being entirely equivocal on this project.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't think I've been equivocal, but I think I am giving a common sense endorsement to the concept, I am interested in it, I have...
BARTLETT:
Are you doubtful?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, I have doubts about, I ...
BARTLETT:
Spell it out for us.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well...
BARTLETT:
What level of commitment will the Federal Government give?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Liam, our position is it's a bold concept, I am sympathetic to it, if Colin wins and signs the water initiative, I will sit down with him and discuss with him, federal involvement and federal support because he will be entitled to it. Now I think that is both positive, its fair, it's accurate and it's anything but equivocal.
BARTLETT:
Let's paraphrase that... you like the...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, no, don't, I am not going to...
BARTLETT:
You like the dream...
PRIME MINISTER:
You can...
BARTLETT:
Take the bold approach, you like the dream and you're prepared to do a fireside chat.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, you are being cynical.
BARTLETT:
I am being realistic.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes well...
BARTLETT:
We've got three days to a state election Prime Minister, the tax payers of this state, we're broadcasting state-wide at the moment...
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I know that ...
BARTLETT:
They want to know what definitive position the federal government is prepared make, what level of commitment?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I cannot name a figure and it would be ludicrous of me to name a figure unless and until I've had a detailed discussion with him but I will go into those discussions sympathetically and disposed to find a way of providing federal support.
BARTLETT:
As you know, there is no definitive costing on this on either construction or on delivery of the end product. There's no complete feasibility study - it's got more holes in it...
PRIME MINISTER:
But Liam if it, hang on Liam, for years people talked about it, and certainly they talked about it when we came to government about the Darwin to Alice Springs railway, and for a long time there were no figures on that but it did eventually get built and it got built with federal support.
BARTLETT:
Well you'd compare it to the...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no I am just pointing out that when big concepts are talked about at the early stages of that discussion, there is often not a precise figure. I don't think there is anything unreasonable about that.
BARTLETT:
One of your key advisers on national water strategies Professor Peter Cullen described the canal as rash.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I know that, it has been criticised but it's also been supported and I think importantly there is a lot of public support for it.
BARTLETT:
Oh well..
PRIME MINISTER:
You see the alternative that the Gallop government is investing a great deal in is water desalination, now a lot of people on environmental grounds have reservations about that. I think what we have to be willing to do in this whole water area is think in a way that we have never thought before because we are faced with a reality and a problem, the dimensions of which I don't think people understood as recently as five years ago.
BARTLETT:
We'll take your calls in just a second. Prime Minister, if this state votes no, no this Saturday in the referendum and rejects extended shopping hours, will we continue to be penalised by the National Competition Council?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the way in which this state will be treated with the Competition Council, being an assessment, has to be made by that Council, I think...
BARTLETT:
What provision is there for the voice of the people?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there is always the capacity for state governments to establish a national interest case, public interest case rather, to maintain something that prime face is opposed to competition principals and I have been willing on earlier occasions in relation to other states to listen to submissions that have put for example I listened to submissions put on pharmacies and I listened to submissions that people put on other issues, sometimes I've agreed with them, and sometimes I haven't but in the end the National Competition principals have to be respected but equally, no set of rules is so dogmatic that there can't be a public interest case put forward.
BARTLETT:
Do you go to the shops every Sunday?
PRIME MINISTER:
I haven't gone so recently, I have to acknowledge that, since I have been living in the official residence, I am not going to pretend that I personally go and do the shopping every Sunday but in earlier years and in some years in the future I will go back to buying things from time to time on Sundays, this is a lifestyle thing. It does involve a bit of a conflict, I think on the one hand everybody wants the convenience of being able to shop at any time, on the other hand people feel for the smaller enterprises and the smaller business who find it a lot more expensive to be open on a Sunday, particularly with the wage and labour costs that are involved so I can understand people have a different view and I respect the fact that within my own party there'll be a range of views on this subject.
BARTLETT:
Let's take some questions now Prime Minister, David's first up, hello David.
CALLER:
Hi how are you? I'd just like to make a comment. The deployment of Australian forces all over the world and various operations - I speak as an ex-military person. I know there's a lot of political stuff and I must admit if I was in the armed forces I'd love these sorts of postings; there's nothing more boring than spending a three week rotation, one week exercise, one week guard duty and one week painting rocks white and doing the dishes. So I think that for the guys on the ground, it's probably going to be quite interesting as long as you don't get too much stuff thrown at you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well David I think that sums up the attitude of a lot of people in the military and I understand why. They joined the military - we're dealing here with people who joined the military to have a career. They obviously like the practical side of it, the real side of it. We of course take very seriously any decision to send Australian forces overseas and send them in the way of danger. This particular deployment will be to a part of Iraq which is relatively speaking less violent, a lot less violent than other parts of Iraq, but there will be danger and there will be the possibility of causalities and we're very soberly aware of that but I have found in my contact with men and women of the ADF over the last few years that they appreciate the opportunity of doing things and they don't want to belong, they don't want to be in a situation where they never have any opportunities of serving on missions. But I want to assure you, much and all as I want them to have career fulfilment no government, and my Government is certainly not an exception to this, no government lightly decides to send Australian forces overseas into danger.
BARLETT:
Thanks for your calls David. Hello John.
CALLER:
Hi, g'day Liam, good morning Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Morning.
CALLER:
Just one question, during the federal campaign Prime Minister you had a go at Labor for not releasing their costings. I just want to know what your opinion is about Mr Barnett not releasing his costings to get checked in the state campaign. And I'll hang up and listen to your response, thank you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we had at a go at the Labor Party for not providing to the Treasury and the Department of Finance their policies so that they could be fully costed and those costings released. As I understand it we have a process for dealing with that that is not duplicated around the states. My understanding is that the Opposition here in Western Australia will be releasing some costings before the campaign finishes.
BARLETT:
They'll want to be doing it soon won't they?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well oppositions have, and governments for that matter, choose different times in election campaigns to release costings.
BARLETT:
Have you seen it at all? Have you been privy to...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, look I haven't been privy to the preparation of their policies and I wouldn't expect to be. I mean this is a state election and although we belong to the same party and I want Colin Barnett to win he's entitled to run his own race. He wasn't involved in or nor were any of my state colleagues involved in the preparation of our policies for the federal campaign. That doesn't mean to say we're at a distance or we're at loggerheads, it's just that we operate at different levels. But I'm over here to give general support and to argue very strongly the case for a change of government.
BARLETT:
So no-one from the federal office, attached to the federal office came over?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I didn't say that. There are some employees of the party and some I think others who've helped from time to time. But I'm not aware, I mean I certainly personally have not been involved in writing policies; there may in a peripheral way have been some staffers of colleagues who could have been involved in some of the detail, but...
BARLETT:
Hard to believe though as Prime Minister of the Liberal Party where there's no Liberal state government anywhere in Australia this is your first opportunity, that you wouldn't have your finger on the pulse.
PRIME MINISTER:
I didn't say I didn't have my finger on the pulse, what I'm saying is that I was not involved in the preparation of the policies. There are other ways of having your finger on the pulse.
BARLETT:
Graeme, good morning.
CALLER:
Good morning Liam, Prime Minister. One of the issues that's actually not a state issue this year around is the whole daylight savings issue and the thing is what I would like you as Prime Minister to do is to get together with your friend Helen Clark across the Tasman and from a federal...
PRIME MINISTER:
You're not calling New Zealand a state of Australia, don't do that please.
CALLER:
No, listen I am a Kiwi (inaudible), but you know I'll be polite. The reality is I think you just basically need some federal intervention because at the moment it's like you cross the road from Tweed Heads to Coolangatta and it's...
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, I think that is crazy, yeah I do. I think the disconnect between New South Wales and Queensland on daylight saving is more ridiculous...
BARLETT:
Never mind them, what about us?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I mean there's a separation, I mean...
BARLETT:
Well not really Prime Minister...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'm listening, I mean I'm in the hands; I'm very interested to hear the views of Western Australians about this.
BARLETT:
The Prime Minister couldn't convince Helen Clark to reinstate John Farnham, how do you expect...
CALLER:
Well good on Helen for that, but I mean I just think it needs a simple solution, on the first Sunday of October and of the last Sunday of March we just shift the clock one hour in all states, do it with New Zealand, it is simple solution and all it needs is a federal directive to...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you don't, we don't control the law, a federal directive couldn't achieve that. But can I say to you I like daylight saving, I enjoy it, I think it's a pity that we don't have it for longer periods of time.
BARLETT:
Alright Graeme, thanks for your call, good morning Terry.
CALLER:
Good morning. Mr Howard, are you (inaudible) Mr Barnett that you can sell the (inaudible) questions when asked (inaudible) shouldn't be in Iraq, all you're doing is hoping to (inaudible) Americans and (inaudible). Thank you very much.
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay.
BARLETT:
Is there a question in there Kerry? Obviously not. You say we're replacing the Dutch, the Dutch were lauded in Iraq I believe for their very open manner, by the locals I'm talking about, by the Iraqi locals, and yet they still lost what two soldiers?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, they had a force of 1400 and they did lose two soldiers killed and a number injured.
BARLETT:
Which gives us a pretty good idea that some of our own soldiers probably won't come home at all.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Liam there is a danger of causalities, I said that yesterday, and I won't pretend otherwise. We hope there are not any, but there is a danger, of course there is. Our soldiers are very good at getting on with the locals. Part of the strength of Australians in these deployments is that they're not only good at the nuts and bolts of warfare, if that becomes necessary, but they're also very good at fraternising with local people and winning the hearts and minds. And they are always lauded whenever they interact with the locals. So I have no doubt that the Australians will as welcomed by the locals as were the Dutch.
BARLETT:
Prime Minister you said at the press conference yesterday that your Government received an official request in letter form, I think from Jack Straw.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Jack Straw gave to Alexander Downer some time around the end of January a letter outlining a possible way in which, and he was obviously asking, a possible way in which Australia might fill some of the gap.
BARLETT:
So you were considering it seriously were you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we were being ... people were talking to us about it. But I said yesterday that virtually from the time the major combat phase ended there were, at different levels, requests made, not so much at foreign minister levels, that we make further contributions and we have not responded to those. We looked at the possibility last year of providing security for the United Nations team in Iraq and we decided against that and communicated that decision to the United Nations Secretary General. And you know we were looking at just at the margin of some possible changes in relation to training and in fact we announced in December a slight expansion of our training effort. But the...
BARLETT:
I wonder why, you know to get a letter of that nature, the Foreign Minister in the UK at the end of January just goes to one of the questions (inaudible). But why then do you say a few days you tell a journalist that you would categorically be increasing the troop presence?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we hadn't taken any decision to do so...
BARLETT:
But you were obviously considering it.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the issue was being discussed between the Foreign Minister of Australia and the Foreign Minister of the UK. But we had previously had a position and until you change your position in relation to that, and it was by no means certain even at that time that we were going to change it, I, when asked a question, gave a response that I'd given previously. I think that's perfectly reasonable.
BARLETT:
In the interest of candidness why don't...
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah well it's not realistic until you've finally decided to change your policy to say that you're going to change it.
BARLETT:
You said we won't significantly be increasingly our presence there.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that was the Government's position at the time I answered that question.
BARLETT:
Even though you were considering it. I mean you say it's not a popular decision but it would be more popular would it not if the public had thought you were being candid?
PRIME MINISTER:
Some people will argue that I'm not candid, no matter what I say or what position we take. But the reality is until we took this decision it had been our position for the reason I've outlined that we were not going to embrace a major increase. And we changed that position, for the reasons I've outlined, and one of the reasons we changed that position, one of the major reasons, was the outcome of the Iraqi elections and those Iraqi elections took place on the 30th of January and all of these events that you are taking about - the letter being handed to Mr Downer, the interview with the Bulletin magazine, all of that was occurring around about the same time.
BARLETT:
But why don't you just say, why aren't you honest and just say look this is a fluid situation, why do you say categorically...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well at the time I was asked...
BARLETT:
...misleading answers.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it wasn't a misleading answer, it was a correct statement of our then position.
BARLETT:
That's (inaudible) being candid.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, it's telling you what it was.
BARLETT:
Go back to the phone, hello Eric.
CALLER:
Oh hi. Mr Howard just wondering given the water, well firstly welcome to WA.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
CALLER:
Given the criticality of the water shortages in WA I was quite disappointed that Dr Gallop and his Government didn't sign the National Water Agreement and the question to you is what did WA miss out by not signing the National Water Agreement?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they missed out, particularly their pastoralists missed out, on being part of a national agreement whereby we have enforceable water title rights across state borders. See what we have to do if we're to have a rational water allocation system in this country is give people some security that if they're given a water allocation then that is an asset and it can't be taken away without proper compensation and we're trying to develop water title understandings that are common around Australia and that was one of the elements of the National Water Initiative and in not signing up Dr Gallop denied the pastoralists of Western Australia access to that.
CALLER:
Right, and did it go further to any support for states for water initiative?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the water initiative involves, as I was explaining earlier in the context of the canal access, to the National Water Initiative - membership of the National Water Initiative or association with it entitles states to apply for, and participate in, the allocation of federal money. That was what I was saying earlier to Liam in answer to the question. If you do not become part of the initiative you can't get a share of the federal fund and until Western Australia signs then there's no way that we can look at an application from Western Australia for a contribution to the canal or indeed any other projects.
BARLETT:
Thanks Eric for the question. What's your prediction for Saturday?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't know. You know I don't know. I really don't know. I think it will be very close - I think we could win or we could just lose. I don't think it will be a big win for either side, I really don't, and there is clearly a swing onto the Liberal Party. The question is, is it big enough to put them over the line. That would be my assessment. It may fall just short or it may be just enough.
BARLETT:
How much of a difference would it make for the Liberal Party?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think it would be wonderful for the party in Western Australia. We will have had two very good results in this state, federal and state, and it will reinvigorate state Liberal oppositions around the country. And they're pretty much on the back foot at the moment, we don't hold office anywhere except in Canberra.
BARLETT:
And if the Liberals can't get over the line in this sort of environment what do you think? The leader goes? A bit of a shaking up?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, look I'm not going to hypothesise about the post-election situation. We've got an election, I hope the Liberal Party makes it, I think they've got a really good chance and I genuinely believe it's an unpredictable election.
BARLETT:
Well here's the most important question for you Prime Minister, you're a rugby man, do you think a Kiwi should be allowed to coach Perth's new Super 14 team?
PRIME MINISTER:
Whoever is the best person, irrespective of nationality, should be allowed to coach. In this globalised world in which we live we're going to have more and more of this occurring.
BARLETT:
It's a pretty good coach isn't he?
PRIME MINISTER:
Of course he is and I would have absolutely no difficulty on the grounds of his origin - that would be ludicrous. If it's good enough for Perth's own Rod Marsh to be coaching the English in cricket it's good enough for a New Zealander to be coaching a Perth based rugby team.
BARLETT:
Alright, we'll wrap that up and send it off to the ARU. Thanks very much for coming in today and having a chat with us.
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay, thanks.
[ends]