LAWS:
Prime Minister, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning John.
LAWS:
And thank you for giving me some of your precious time in what is going to be the start of a very, very busy six weeks or so.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, it is a long campaign, it's only a week longer than normal, but I don't think that matters. It's an opportunity for both of us to talk about the future. Because this election is really about the future of Australia over a ten year period, and as well as talking about our achievements, which have been a lot over the last eight and a half years, I will talk quite a deal about our future and it is, as you mentioned, an issue of trust. Who do you trust to keep the economy strong? Who do you trust to keep interest rates lower? Who do you trust to keep the budget strong, so we can actually afford to spend more money on health and education? It's not much good promising to invest more in health and education if you run the budget into deficit. And I think it's very important to remember, that over the last eight and a half years, we've repaid $70 billion of debt and as a result we have $5.5 billion a year in interest saved, that we can spend on health and education and tax relief and family payments.
LAWS:
Will your future become a central point of this campaign?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, my position is that I'll remain leader of the party as long as my colleagues want me to. Of course, if I'm re-elected, if the Australian people give me the enormous honour of re-electing the Government I lead, I've said repeatedly that I'll continue as leader as long as my party wants me to. And they keep talking about Peter Costello, well can I say - go on talking about Peter Costello because he's an enormous plus for this Government...
LAWS:
That's right.
PRIME MINISTER:
I mean, I cannot understand, I mean they talk as though... they talk about Peter Costello as though there's some advantage for them in constantly referring to him. Peter Costello happens to be the most successful Treasurer, in my view, in Australia's history. And, you know, I... because if you look at him over the last eight and a half years, you look at the central role he's played, well why on earth the Labor Party thinks it's a plus to be constantly attacking Peter Costello is beyond me, because Peter and I are close colleagues. He has ambition, that's perfectly legitimate, I never decry ambition in a man. I have ambition myself. I have an ambition to serve the Australian people again as Prime Minister. I have a lot of energy, I have lot of focus and a lot of commitment.
LAWS:
Are you prepared then, if your colleagues want you to stay, to stay for the whole term?
PRIME MINISTER:
I will stay as long as they want me to, full stop.
LAWS:
Okay, in relation to trust, it seems to me to be a strange word on which to base things given they've been conducting polls on whether people trust you or don't, 37 per cent say they don't trust you. But the part that I found intriguing and you must find a bit disappointing, is nearly 60 per cent couldn't care whether they can trust you or not. Now what does that say about the attitude of the public towards politicians?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I'm not a social commentator, I'm John Howard and not somebody like, say Hugh McKay, who's a very good social commentator or others, or your good self. But the trust I speak of, is a feeling of security in handling the difficult issues that affect people's daily lives. And when I say - do they better trust me to keep their interest rates low, than Mark Latham? Do the they better trust me to deliver a strong economy so their living standards remain high? They're the sort of things that in the end define, in an aggregate sense, the notion of trust. In other words - who do you think will do the better job of protecting our personal and family financial security? And who do you think will do the better job in leading the Australian nation in the fight against international terrorism. Now they are very central legitimate questions to be asked and I hope people continue to ask them because they are at the very heart of this election campaign.
LAWS:
You have talked already a couple of times about interest rates. You can't guarantee that interest rates will stay lower under your Government.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I can assert and guarantee that our interest rates... we'll always have lower interest rates than Labor because we've always...
LAWS:
Not always, you've had higher.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I've been Prime Minister for eight and a half years.
LAWS:
No, last time you were Treasurer, 10.8 per cent when you were last Treasurer and under the previous Whitlam Government they were 8.9 per cent. So the Coalition can't guarantee to keep them lower.
PRIME MINISTER:
I think you have to look at the recent field evidence John, the recent field evidence of the time that I've been Prime Minister, everyone knows that interest rates now, are lower than they've been for a generation. And the reason they're lower is that we have kept the budget in surplus, the combination of John Howard as Prime Minister and Peter Costello as Treasurer, we have kept the budget very strongly in surplus and we'll continue to do so and it's on the basis of that and our track record over the last eight and a half years. And that is the most recent field evidence you can find and it's a long period of time and all of your listeners in small business will remember the 17, 18, 19, 20 per cent interest rates...
LAWS:
Oh sure, sure...
PRIME MINISTER:
... of the Keating years. So, I mean, the point... I mean, I am entitled to ask people to contrast my performance over the last eight and a half years as Prime Minister and Peter Costello's very important contribution over that period of time to keeping interest rates down.
LAWS:
Yeah, I'm just being helpful Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, you're always being helpful John, I understand that. I would never suggest that you've been otherwise.
LAWS:
I wouldn't want you to be exercising that word trust and somebody not as friendly as me jump up and say - well, hang on, you've got to remember that interest rates were higher because you really can't guarantee on past performance it would appear you'd have a better chance of keeping them low, but you can't guarantee it.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think when you look at eight and a half years in Government, through some very difficult international economic times, and I don't think there'd be a listener to this programme who wouldn't acknowledge that we have done an excellent job in keeping interest rates down. And at a time when there is some pressure around the world for interest rates to go up, we are a much safer bet in relation to interest rates than a Labor Government.
LAWS:
World interest rates are pretty low, though, aren't they?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, world interest rates are... well, they're on the way up. Now they went very low in the United States because the United States, went into a recession. We didn't. And when a country goes into a recession, it's often the case that interest rates go down, because they are pushed down in order to stimulate activity. But the important thing is that interest rates now are lower than what they were when we came to office and you've got a saving of $400-$500 on a monthly mortgage. Now that's an important thing for people. I mean, it goes to the sensitivity of every household budget and it is going to be a central issue in this campaign and it should be, because it's something that affects everybody.
LAWS:
Where are the problem areas going to be, Parramatta?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, I don't want to talk about individual seats. But I acknowledge that this is going to very hard for us. I am the underdog and I don't think I'm just automatically claiming a status just for political advantage. I don't believe in this false bravado about oh, of course, I'm going to win. I don't know what the outcome will be. I enter this campaign genuinely believing that the outcome is unknown. I enter this campaign behind in the published polls, I enter this campaign knowing that every election in a way, is harder than the last one because you're that much, you know, longer in office and after a while, you know, people inevitably say - well, you know, we'll look at alternatives. Well, that's fair enough, that's what an election campaign is about and I'm very happy for people to compare and contrast...
LAWS:
You're still ahead as preferred Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I am but that is often the case and I don't want to overdo that, I think Mr Keating was just ahead of me or we were close in 1996. Yet I had a very big win, it wasn't the same with Mr Beazley. But, look, the opinion polls now, although they will excite people when they come out, in a way they're all academic because...
LAWS:
Of course they are.
PRIME MINISTER:
Because the real exam is going to be sat on the 9th of October and in six weeks we'll know the outcome so opinion polls are interesting. But I think the campaign is an opportunity for us to find out what Mr Latham stands for. I've often said that although I disagree with them on a lot of issues, I did know what Bob Hawke stood for and I did know what Paul Keating stood for. I don't know what Mr Latham stands for.
LAWS:
Today might be the day.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we'll see. I don't know. People know what I stand for, love me or loathe me, they know where I stand on issues and I've taken the view all along that I should have a strong position. I have my critics, fierce critics, I accept that. But if you get the job that I've had the privilege of serving in, over the last eight and a half years, you have a duty to do the things you believe in and to drive them hard and to stand up for things that you want done and to change the nation in the way that you think it should be changed for the better.
LAWS:
Well, if Mr Latham can't make the case for change you won't have a problem, will you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I guess that's one way of putting it. But I, as I say, I'm a participant and a player I'm not a commentator. I will be talking about our record, I'll be talking about my plans for the future. I will also be talking about the risk of changing to a Labor Government, particularly in the area of interest rates and industrial relations, the two IRs. I'll be talking about those quite a lot, because they go to the very heart of our future economic security.
LAWS:
If Labor were to win, would the Greens have a big say in what was going on in our country?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, look, I have no doubt that the Labor Party is more susceptible to the whole Green agenda. And bear in mind that the Greens are not just about the environment...
LAWS:
I'm aware of that.
PRIME MINISTER:
They have a whole lot of other very, very kooky policies...
LAWS:
You bet.
PRIME MINISTER:
.. in relation to things like drugs and all of that sort of stuff and new taxes and whatever, which people never talk about because they try and portray themselves as a one issue party, of just being warm and fuzzy about the environment. Now we are all warm and fuzzy about the environment. I am, you are, everybody is. The environment is a mainstream issue now, but we also have to have sustainable economic development. We have to have both and it's possible to have both and we have done that. We have invested a lot in the environment and I'll obviously be having something further to say about that particularly in areas like water over the weeks ahead.
LAWS:
Yep, could the Greens suffer from being seen as little more than a cheer group for the ALP?
PRIME MINISTER:
It's very hard to tell. I think there are elements on the left of the Labor Party that are drifting to the Greens. I think there are some people even who've been traditionally Liberal voters who might sort of not be aware of the Green agenda in areas like drugs and so forth, which I think they will become aware of in the weeks ahead.
LAWS:
Do you think that the children overboard thing is going to come back or are you just going to tell people to ask you another question?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, John, this election is about the next ten years, it's not about the last three days of the last election campaign. And what people remember from that period is that I stopped the boats, and what they remember is that we were strong on border protection and the Labor Party was weak. That's what the Australian public remember.
LAWS:
Yep. And, I mean, seriously, can you take the attitude, because I believe you'd be quite entitled to, to say that's an issue of the past, I'm not going to discuss it? Because a terrible lot of time is going to be wasted.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don't... I mean, I've answered that question and I move on.
LAWS:
Yeah, well that's good, I hope you keep doing it because everybody's fed up to the back teeth with the children overboard.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, they are fed up with it and I just... I have nothing further to say about it than what I've just said.
LAWS:
When you say you don't want to talk about individual seats, why?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh no look, well, I'm happy to talk, I was giving a general answer to start with. Look, Parramatta's a marginal seat and, of course it is, it's a very marginal seat. So is Dobell, so is Adelaide. We've got a slew of marginal seats...
LAWS:
Has Ross Cameron done you any favours?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, I really don't want to talk about his situation. He's made some statements. I have the rather, you know, traditional view, I suppose, that you don't... somebody's private life, unless it impinges upon the performance of their public duty, is their private life. And I mean, those are matters that are best dealt with in the context of the people closest to the person in question. And I don't publicly sermonise about people's behaviour. I'm not into that. And I think the public generally prefers to make a judgement about somebody on the basis of their work in the job. And on the basis of Ross's work in the job, he's been a very good member. He works very hard, he's articulate, he identifies with a lot of issues in the electorate. And whenever I go to that electorate I always hear from people that they know him and they comment favourably on the work that he's done for them.
LAWS:
Yep, what about Wentworth Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Wentworth is not an easy seat and it shouldn't be assumed by anybody, particularly the Liberals in Wentworth that it's a blue ribbon seat. The margin in Wentworth is 7.8 per cent. Now, I strongly support Malcolm Turnbull. It was a vigorously contested preselection. And, as a result, there was obviously in the aftermath, some different views. But he won democratically. I think Turnbull will be a very strong and a strongly contributing Member for Wentworth, he's got a lot of ability.
LAWS:
A lot.
PRIME MINISTER:
He's got his views on different issues and that's terrific. We're a party with broad views on a whole range of things and I think he'll make a very big contribution. Now, I speak no ill of Peter King and it's always disappointing for an individual when he or she loses a pre-selection and Peter's been a contributor. I hope he doesn't run as an independent.
LAWS:
Do you think he will?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that's a matter for him. I hope he doesn't because I think if he does run as an independent that will only advantage the Labor Party. There's no doubt about that because it will divide the anti-Labor vote. Now, I hope he doesn't. I hope he -disappointed though I acknowledge he will be, and his colleagues acknowledge he's been- I hope he recognises that that could only contribute to the possible success of the Labor Party and I know in his heart he would never want that to occur.
LAWS:
Yep. After all his years with the Liberal Party, that have been fairly comfortable from what I've observed, wouldn't it be rather be like treachery to turn his back on them now?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, I wouldn't use that word. Peter has contributed a lot to the Liberal Party. He worked very hard as a State President. These are difficult things. There's no point in mincing words. When you lose an internal ballot in your own party, you feel obviously hurt by it, I understand that. I know enough of the internal processes of a political party to recognise that. I just hope out of all of this, in the end the interests of the Liberal Party are put first and I know that is something that would, you know, very much be on Peter's mind. And I think Malcolm having won the democratic ballot is entitled to the total support of the party organisation which he will receive. He certainly has my total support...
LAWS:
Yes.
PRIME MINISTER:
....and I am an enthusiastic backer of him not only because he is the endorsed Liberal candidate but because he is also a person of great ability. And I hope he wins and he goes on to make a contribution. But I say that with complete sensitivity to Peter's feelings and I just express the hope that he does not run because that can only, however he may want it otherwise, it can only advantage the Labor Party. And I hope the Liberals in Wentworth do not take the seat of Wentworth for granted. I do not, I know the electorate well, I know a lot of people in it very well and it should not be taken for granted by the Liberal Party.
LAWS:
No, I think a lot do sadly. I think a lot do.
PRIME MINISTER:
I think that is a mistake. It is not - it is an unusual electorate. It has some areas of course that are very strongly Liberal. It has some areas that are very mixed and it has a range of views on a lot of matters, and I think people should bear all of that in mind. And nobody, who sort of deep down, wants to lose the economic security and prosperity of the last eight and a half years but somehow or other thinks they can experiment with a Labor vote or other than a Liberal vote - I hope they think carefully about that, before they do it.
LAWS:
Yeah, just one final question in relation to that - if Peter King did run as an independent, do you think he could win as an independent?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I think if he ran as an independent that would help the Labor Party win, that's my worry....
LAWS:
Certainly wouldn't help Malcolm.
PRIME MINISTER:
...and I'm quite upfront about that. There's no point in being shy about communicating concerns. I mean, this is a way for me to talk to people in the electorate and to communicate my concern and I do none of this out of any malice towards Peter...
LAWS:
No, I'm aware of that.
PRIME MINISTER:
...and with a perfect knowledge and an understanding, or a good understanding of how hurt felt about the pre-selection but that's politics - it's tough. Some people win, it was democratically conducted, vigorous. We had a pre-selection unlike, might I say Kingsford-Smith. We don't install people over the heads of the rank and file. We actually allow rank and file ballots to occur. We are strangely democratic in that sense compared with out political opponents.
LAWS:
But I do get the impression, I presume rightly, that you would prefer Malcolm Turnbull to be there than Peter King at this time?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, he's the candidate. He's the chosen candidate...
LAWS:
That you'd prefer?
PRIME MINISTER:
...and I am loyal to the party's decisions. Loyalty is a two-way process in a political party. I expect people to be loyal and supportive of me and they have been immensely so, but I will also give loyalty back.
LAWS:
Okay, Prime Minister. You're in for a busy time - aren't you?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am and I'm looking forward to it. I have great stamina and I have a great commitment. I want to go on in the job, John. I love working for the Australian people. It's a tremendous privilege to have this job. I care about it very much. I never tire of interacting with the Australian people. I like talking to them and listening to them and I really am very dedicated and committed to winning.
LAWS:
Okay. I'm going to get my people from all over the country to let me know why they wouldn't vote for you today and then tomorrow I'm going to ask them why they wouldn't vote for Mark Latham - would you be interested in that material?
PRIME MINISTER:
Absolutely fascinated.
LAWS:
Okay. Well, I'll pass it on to you because I thought it better than to say 'why are you going to vote for John Howard?' - 'why are you not going to vote' might be more helpful to all of us.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, it would certainly be helpful to me. I'd be fascinated to know.
LAWS:
Okay. Well, we'll do that and we'll pass it on to your people.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you, John.
LAWS:
Thank you very much for your time, Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
LAWS:
Bye.
[ends]