BROWN:
Prime Minister, we now have a testimony from two senior military officers, officers who spoke to Mike Scrafton, the man at the centre of this controversy, not long after the last Federal election. They back his version of what he told you, that there was essentially no evidence to support the false claims that refugees, asylum seekers...I beg your pardon...threw their children overboard before the last election. Where does that leave you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, they don't back his version, they simply report that he told them his version. They weren't there, they didn't hear the conversation, so they don't back his version. Look, I put this material out in the interests of transparency because I wouldn't want somebody later on to say, well you got these statements, why didn't you put them out. But they don't alter the substance. Mr Scrafton and I have different recollections of that conversation. My view remains firm, I haven't altered it, but I believe in the interest of transparency because he told other people, other than Miss McKenry, that his recollection was different from mine. I think it's important the public know that so people aren't accusing me of a cover-up. But I just emphasise again the substance of the issue has not changed because this is not direct evidence of the conversation. These are conversations he had weeks later with these two gentlemen, weeks later. I remind you, of course, that my staff were present with me on the night and there is a difference in that. But look, I think the public, frankly, is tired of this issue but I don't want an accusation made of cover-up, that I'm not being transparent. I initiated the process which has led to these statements being released. I asked the Secretary of my Department to check whether there had been a record of any other discussions and then after talking to my Defence Minister, at my request, he asked that Major General Powell and Commander Noonan be interviewed and they were interviewed. I got the statements this morning. The interviews were conducted yesterday and I decided this afternoon to release them so that nobody could say, he's covering things up, he's sitting on it, why didn't he tell us, what did he know and all that sort of nonsense. Now, frankly, I think the public is bored with this issue....
BROWN:
Nevertheless, Prime Minister...
PRIME MINISTER:
...this was resolved three years ago and, frankly, life has to move on.
BROWN:
What we have learned now, though, unfortunately is that just a couple of weeks after the Federal election campaign Mike Scrafton did tell a senior military officer, Major Powell, that he'd spoken to you or one of your advisers and told you that children had not been thrown overboard. You say that that's just his re-telling of the events but you have previously said, in the last week or so, that recollections, contemporaneous to the facts are always more reliable than what's said later on. This is a contemporaneous recollection [inaudible]...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, if you're going to use that argument with me, Matt, the most contemporaneous recollections where, of course, of the people who were actually with me that night at the Lodge.
BROWN:
And they conflict and now we have two senior military officers backing one of those sides, Mr Scrafton.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, they're not backing, they're merely saying that he said to them the same thing that he said to Miss McKenry.
BROWN:
Why would he go and tell Major General Powell that he had told you there was no evidence to support the children overboard claims if that's not what he'd told you?
PRIME MINISTER:
He would have to tell you that. Look, I am not arguing with the fact that he believes what he took out of that conversation, that is not the issue. I accept that. I've never argued otherwise. I'm simply making the point that what you tell a third person of a conversation you had with somebody is not direct evidence of that conversation. And look I put this material out because I don't want accusations being made of any kind of cover-up. It doesn't alter the substance. His recall of that discussion is different from mine and nothing is going to shake or alter the view I have and the recall I have of that. I'm not attacking the man, he's entitled to have that view, and I say again, I think the public is bored with this issue. I know it's devouring the interests of the Federal Parliamentary Press Gallery but I'm not going to have, you know, the claim made that I've concealed information. I decided today, when I read those statements, that I would put them out in the interests of transparency.
BROWN:
As indeed you've said, Prime Minister, but what has it come to...
PRIME MINISTER:
In the same way as I decided three years ago to put the video out knowing full well that it would be reported as not necessarily supporting the original claim that was made on public service advice.
BROWN:
So what has it come to now, that the Prime Minister of Australia is getting his personal staff to sign documents effectively testifying to his integrity, testifying to your integrity. Documents that are, themselves, contradicted by senior serving military officers. How do you describe that state of affairs?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don't think they are contradicted because the statements by the military officers are in relation to a different discussion. They are not commenting on the same situation, so that is not accurate. Look, I have done this in the interests of transparency. I had these statements prepared, or the interviews were conducted, it was my decision. If I hadn't have made those inquiries, if I hadn't decided to have the interviews conducted they wouldn't have been conducted. They have been...
BROWN:
Is that an acknowledgement, Prime Minister, that your integrity has become an issue, that you are concerned about it?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I think it's a clear indication that I've got nothing to hide.
BROWN:
We've heard the Small Business Minister, Joe Hockey, on the ABC today saying he thinks this issue works for you, electorally, it works for you, politically, do you believe that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, I don't express a view except that the public is bored with it. Can I tell you, I go around, they are fed to the back teeth with this issue. What they say to me is, you've stopped the boats. That's the thing they remember three years ago, that the strong stand that the Government took on border protection was something that they applauded and they supported and they are fed up with the issue. They are interested in hearing from me about the future, not about the past and obviously...
BROWN:
Parliament's scheduled to meet next week.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, it is scheduled to meet next week.
BROWN:
Are you prepared to face parliamentary questioning on this issue and on these revelations or the statements?
PRIME MINISTER:
Matt, I have never run away from issues and I would have thought what I had done today demonstrates very clearly that I don't run away from issues. But I do know this...
BROWN:
What about scrutiny in the Parliament?
PRIME MINISTER:
Parliament is scheduled to meet next week.
BROWN:
And are you prepared to face the Parliament on this issue?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Parliament includes the Prime Minister and if Parliament is scheduled to meet, that means the Prime Minister is scheduled to be in Parliament.
BROWN:
Indeed, the scheduling, but I'm asking about your preparation now, that this information is made public, are you looking to see that dealt with in Parliament, in that...
PRIME MINISTER:
Quite honestly, Matt, I have other things on my mind. I have policies - obviously we're going to have an election at some time in the not too distant future, and that election will be about the future, it will not be about the past. And I can tell you the Australian public is saying to me that they're fed up with this issue, they're fed up with the focus on it by some, they understand that I have to deal with it but they are fed up with it because it is not of concern to them, it's ancient history. What they do remember of that period was that you had a government strong on border protection that stopped the boats coming and that is what they will always remember, that we were strong on border protection and Labor was weak. That is why Labor lost the last election and it's galling to them but it's the reality and it is really the explanation of why they remained obsessed with this issue.
BROWN:
Prime Minister, thanks for joining us on PM.
PRIME MINISTER:
It's a great pleasure.
[ends]