DALLY:
Prime Minister, John Howard, is with us live. Good evening Prime Minister and thanks for joining us.
PRIME MINISTER:
Evening, Helen.
DALLY:
Now given that there';s still no evidence of weapons of mass destruction found, does Saddam';s capture vindicate your position in taking Australia into the war with Iraq?
PRIME MINISTER:
Our position was always right because the evidence at the time was that there were weapons – that was the intelligence. And I don';t think anybody could seriously argue that the right thing was to leave Saddam there. And we entered the conflict on the basis of our intelligence. Saddam has conservatively been responsible for murdering about 400,000 or 500,000 of his own people and inflicting a lot of misery on others. And those who attacked us for what we did were really arguing that Saddam should be left there because that was the only logical alternative. I think most people, in fact the overwhelming majority of people, are delighted that he';s been captured. And what';s important about today is what it means for the Iraqi people, for their future. I think it will take an enormous burden off them because when you';ve lived under a despot like that, you don';t have the habit of freedom and in your darkest moments you imagine that he';s going to come back to haunt you, to torture you, to murder you and now that he';s finally been captured…
DALLY:
Yes, so they wanted…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think they just… I think the worry that so many of them had was that he would come back because he';d been there for so long and Iraq has never had the democracy that we take for granted. Now with this loathsome person in custody there';s a real chance that the people can start looking to the future rather than worrying that this man would come back to torture or kill them.
DALLY:
Well, as you say, not to take away from the capture of this horrid dictator, but do you appreciate that the everyday struggles for life for Iraqis – power supplies turned off all the time, 15 hour queues for petrol, not enough jobs, very much unrest and dodging bullets. That';s… they';re the things that they want fixed and they';re not being fixed.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well of course they want them fixed, but you have to understand the people who are stopping them being fixed are not the Americans or the British or the Australians. The people who are stopping them being fixed are those who followed Saddam, those who don';t want Iraq to have freedom and democracy. And what I say to people is that if the allies give up, if we throw our arms up, walk out and abandon the place, it';ll fall into chaos and another Saddam will come and the country will lapse back into what it';s experienced for the last 35 years.
DALLY:
So would you say Prime Minister it';s perhaps in less of a state of chaos than it would be if the Americans and the allies walked out?
PRIME MINISTER:
Absolutely. I mean, if we… if the Americans and the British and others walked out, the country would lapse into a bloody civil war.
DALLY:
But I suppose a lot of people are saying – eight months after the war, why isn';t it fixed?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, some people are saying that. But you don';t, in dealing with a country of 26 million people, you don';t bring about the sort of change that has happened peacefully. Every single country that has had a huge regime change like that goes through a very difficult period. Countries time and time again when that sort of thing happens circumstances are that you go through a period of difficulty, freedom is often something that people find very hard to handle and very hard to enjoy and people have to stay the distance because if the Americans were now to walk out, all of this would have been for nothing, another dictator would arise, the Iraqi people would feel a far greater sense of portrayal. What is good about Saddam';s capture is that, I believe over time, not immediately, I think over time it will take away some of the morale, some of the fire, some of the esprit de corps of those who are trying to prevent Iraq having a democratic future.
DALLY:
Okay. I just want to get through a couple of issues.
PRIME MINISTER:
Sure.
DALLY:
Everyone thinks he';s guilty, you';ve said yourself you wouldn';t mind seeing the death penalty. If he';s tried in Iraq, as we understand it, there is no death penalty in Iraq at the moment; it was removed after the war. So how would that work?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the Iraqis may well bring in a different law, that';d be a matter for them. I think it';s better he be tried in Iraq. I think that is because most of the misery he inflicted on people he inflicted on the Iraqi people and I think he should face them and I think the detail of what he did should be spelt out during his trial so that the world is for ever and irrevocably reminded of what a terrible dictator he was.
DALLY:
Would you agree that Osama bin Laden is really public enemy number one and that he is a much greater potential threat to Australia? And has the hunt for bin Laden almost been lost with the obsession with Saddam Hussein?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I don';t think so. I don';t think it';s been lost at all and you don';t really, sort of, think in terms of who';s worse. I mean, they';re both very bad. Obviously, the terrorist threat in our own region from Jemaah Islamiyah is the most immediate threat for us. But the hunt for bin Laden goes on. A week ago, people were saying they';ll never catch Saddam, weren';t they?
DALLY:
They were and they have. Prime Minister, we will have to leave it there. I do thank you for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]