HARDACRE:
And we're joined in the studio now by the Prime Minister, Mr Howard. Mr Howard, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning.
HARDACRE:
Your reaction to the news?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh I'm delighted, I'm delighted most of all for the Iraqi people because Saddam's capture removes that haunting worry that he would come back and when you have lived for most of them under your life under a dictatorship and under a dictatorship that's claimed the lives of, on a conservative estimate, 300,000 - 400,000 citizens in a fairly short period of time, you find it very hard to believe until somebody who's responsible for that is actually captured that he won't come back, and the psychological effect this will have on people inside Iraq can't really be properly calculated.
HARDACRE:
Have you spoken to Mr Bush yet about this?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, he rang me at half past one this morning to give me some of the details of the circumstances that led up to it and generally, obviously, to talk about it. I congratulated him and particularly congratulated the American military for the job that they had done in bringing Saddam to captivity. Obviously their on the ground intelligence has got a lot better, he was captured because somebody tipped the Americans off, now that is a very good sign, that is what happened in relation to his two sons and we both agreed that the psychological effect of this was enormous and the sense of hope and reassurance it gives to the Iraqi people who overwhelmingly want to run their own country and want a future and want to put the past behind them, that really is the best thing that comes out of all of this.
HARDACRE:
Now that he's been caught, what's the right form of justice for Saddam Hussein?
PRIME MINISTER:
I believe he should be tried in Iraq, I think it should be an open trial, I think the details of what he did should be spelled out detail by detail, slaughter by slaughter, death by death, so that the world understands what kind of man he was because there are even now people who doubted. From time to time I read articles that are critical of the Americans and critical of my government and the implication of those is that oh Iraq, you know, would probably still be better off with Saddam Hussein. I mean you can't have it both ways, you can't say that he was a loathesome dictator and murdered his people and then criticise the people who've removed him.
HARDACRE:
And should Iraqis do you think have full control of the legal process or do we need assistance, international assistance?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well his crimes were overwhelmingly against the Iraqi people and I would, whilst it's too early to get the fine detail of it, I would think that the principal prosecutors and the principal staffers of the tribunal or court or whatever it may be should be Iraqis.
HARDACRE:
Look it's clearly great news for local Iraqis who've suffered under the yoke of his regime, but to what extent is his capture going to bring an end to the insurgency in Iraq?
PRIME MINISTER:
It can't be assumed that that will happen automatically, it would be very foolish for people to imagine that overnight attacks are going to stop, they won't. I believe over time they will diminish. I believe that people will make the calculation that the insurgents are not going to win. Dictatorship and terror and tyranny rest on psychological factors. It rests on continued intimidation. And with the principal persecutor and murderer gone, or out of the equation, I think over time that will have an effect, but it will take a while and I don't think anybody should say as a result of this, well we now pull out the troops out, we now relax, we now take it easy. That would be a huge mistake.
HARDACRE:
Well of course a number of Arab fighters, depending on what intelligence you believe, have come into Iraq to take on the west. Do you see that as a continuing rallying point, even though Saddam Hussein has now gone?
PRIME MINISTER:
There is still a large number of people who are trying to deny the Iraqis their future and their freedom. Now Saddam's capture will have delivered an enormous blow to those people and it will alter their whole psychology and their whole morale, but it doesn't mean to say they'll stop, it doesn't mean that those who come from other countries won't still try and murder American and allied soldiers. But it does tilt the balance in the minds of the population and in their minds very much against them, and over time I think it will have an enormous effect.
HARDACRE:
It's certainly not the end of the politics in the country though, with the Shi'ites, the Sunnis...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no it's not. But bear in mind, as a columnist in one of the papers pointed out this morning, that if you look at Iraq the south, which is Shi'ite predominantly, and the Kurdish north have been relatively speaking calmer and less violent than the Sunni Triangle, and it was in the Sunni Triangle where Saddam and his residue have the greatest influence. With his capture, one would imagine that that would start to have a beneficial effect.
HARDACRE:
Given the horrendous crimes which he no doubt has committed, is the death penalty the right...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well if the Iraqi people decide that I would certainly not object. I don't think many Australians would.
HARDACRE:
And finally Prime Minister, is there a sense of relief for you politically that the dictator has now been caught?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I'm more interested in the benefits of it for the Iraqi people. I feel for them. They've had a wretched life. This bloke murdered hundreds of thousands of them and made their life a misery for more than a generation. It's a fantastic thing for them that this has happened.
HARDACRE: Prime Minister, thanks very much for that. [ends]