MITCHELL:
First today in our Sydney studio is the Prime Minister and Mr Howard will take your calls in a moment. Mr Howard, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning, Neil.
MITCHELL:
The US President says we are the sheriff in this region. That can't be helpful to our relations here, can it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Neil, he didn't say that. For the first time I have in front of me the full transcript of his answer. Let me read it to you - it's quite short. The question was "and secondly, does the United States actually see Australia as its deputy sheriff in South East Asia?" The President "no, we don't see it as a deputy sheriff, we see it as a sheriff [laughter] there's a difference. I see you're playing off the Crawford visit to the ranch, the sheriff thing [laughter] anyway, no equal partners and friends and allies there's nothing deputy about this relationship."
MITCHELL:
But he's still saying we're the sheriff.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, he's saying we're the sheriff in the context of being asked whether we're a deputy sheriff. Look, can I make it very clear, I don't see this country as being a sheriff, deputy sheriff, as having any kind of enforcement role in our region. If I were to myself to choose an expression to describe our role in the region, I would use the name given to our operation in the Solomon Islands and that is Helpem Fren, which is pidgin for helping your friends. I see that very much as Australia's primary role in our region. I have no doubt that George Bush's comments were jocular in the context of I having been to his ranch in Texas and, of course, everyone knows that sheriffs and Texans have a commonality. I think the whole thing has become a play thing of some in the media and some in political circles who want to attack anything that George Bush says.
MITCHELL:
But the Malaysian Deputy Prime Minister says it shows we're a puppet of the US. So, they're obviously taking it seriously.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the Malaysians say a lot of things that I think we should let go through to the keeper, if I can switch from Wild West analogies to sporting analogies.
MITCHELL:
So you don't think it will cause problems...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I don't...
MITCHELL:
... interpreted that way.
PRIME MINISTER:
I do not believe it will cause problems, it ought not and I don't believe it will. I've made our own position very clear. We are a partner in the region with many countries, we have very good relationships with most, we have a difficult relationship at a political level with the Malaysians and that has been the case whether I've been Prime Minister or Mr Keating was Prime Minister, that's been difficult at a political level. But at a people-to-people business level, we have a very close relationship with Malaysia. We're going to have the President of China, the largest country in the region, here next Friday, the day after President Bush. Now, nothing could greater symbolise the success of this country's foreign policy in building close relations with Asia while further deepening our already close relationship with the United States. That is the real test, not the fantasising about the meaning of certain words by particular journalists and some political figures in Asia.
MITCHELL:
Just on the Chinese visit - will the issue of human rights be raised with him?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don't have a fixed agenda and I haven't really turned my mind to it. But we have a human rights dialogue with China. China has a different political system from Australia, it's obviously not a democracy as we understand it and I've never pretended otherwise. But it's in the interests of this country, Australia, to have good relations with all significant countries, even though we may have different political systems.
MITCHELL:
Can I ask you, just to get back to George Bush, a number of members of the parliament are threatening to protest and possibly offend him. Is that rude?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think everybody should display good manners, but I'm not going to tell members of the Labor Party how to behave.
MITCHELL:
Do you think it will embarrass Australia?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, I don't believe so. I think Australia's reputation will survive the ill manners of a few individuals, it has in the past and I'm quite sure it will in the future.
MITCHELL:
You think it is ill mannered?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I'm not saying it's ill mannered. I mean, if somebody disagrees with somebody and doesn't stand up and applaud that person, that of itself is not ill mannered, I'm not suggesting that. Look, I think everybody should take their cue from what President Bush himself said, he said Australia is a robust democracy and I am certainly not going to tell members of parliament how to behave, the public will judge them. You don't have to stand and applaud somebody if you don't agree with them, there's no law that says you have to.
MITCHELL:
But turning your backs and wearing white ribbons.
PRIME MINISTER:
Obviously, Neil, there is a big difference between declining to display enthusiasm and a deliberate act of rudeness and I would be surprised if many people engaged in the latter, there could well be people who engage in the former - that's happened before, it'll happen again. I thought somebody made a very good observation in a letter I read this morning that wondered if Tony Blair were addressing the joint sitting rather than George Bush, whether any members of the Australian Labor Party would be talking about turning their back on him?
MITCHELL:
Is that because it's anti-America or because of the political bias towards a Labor Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think with some members of the Labor Party there's a mix of the two. I mean, one of the interesting things about this whole Iraqi debate is that I have heard no criticism that I can recall of any substance from any member of the Labor Party about Tony Blair's stance which was exactly the same as mine and George Bush's. I can only conclude that there's a large dollop of political prejudice, partisan political prejudice in the whole thing.
MITCHELL:
George Bush, by the way, was asked I think it was by Paul Kelly, or was it by Laurie Oakes, that he said that he hadn't yet retained your popularity post-war, that he hadn't and he said that that was because of your charisma. Has he learnt the art of the Aussie send up?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, he's improving.... got a sense of humour. You'd have to have a sense of humour to describe me as having a lot of charisma!
MITCHELL:
Back to the Malaysian situation and Dr Mahathir Mohamad has urged Muslims to wage, in a sense wage war against Jewish people. Let's play you a little grab of what he said.
Mahathir Mohamad: The Europeans killed six million Jews out of 12 million. But today the Jews rule this world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them.
MITCHELL:
And he went on to say, 1.3 billion Muslims must not be defeated by a few million Jews, a way must be found. Is that anti-semitic?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think it's offensive. I mean, Dr Mahathir is retiring shortly. I think by and large I'll let his comments go through to the keeper, he's made those sort of comments in the past. Let me make it clear any indication of rivalry between Jews and Muslims is very unhelpful. The religions of both groups exhort each other to live together in peace, are opposed to terrorism, we have a common interest in uniting the good influences and the good angels both of Islam Judaism and Christianity to waging war against terrorism and bigotry and extremism. The nobler sentiments of Islam are just as committed to those outcomes as are the nobler sentiments of Judaism and Christianity.
MITCHELL:
Do you think his comments are provocative, are they dangerous?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, look I'm not really go further. He is after all departing the scene shortly.
MITCHELL:
Is that a good thing?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I'm not going to comment. It's a matter for the Malaysian people and for him but let me say any suggestion from anybody anywhere in the world of dividing the world into Jewish and non-Jewish groupings is historically indefensible and wrong and something that all Australians or most Australians would regard as quite repugnant.
MITCHELL:
We'll take a break now. The Prime Minister is in our Sydney studio, if you'd like to speak to him please give us a call. You can speak directly to the Prime Minister - 9696 1278. Anything you'd like to raise with the Prime Minister is a moment. I have some more questions, but a chance for you - 9696 12 78.
(commercial break)
MITCHELL:
It's thirteen to nine. The Prime Minister is in our Sydney studio. I have some more questions. We'll take a call. Ian go ahead please.
CALLER:
Yeah, morning Mr Howard. I just ask the question - isn't it true that the Australian quarantine inspection service through the chief veterinary officer has strongly recommended that the sheep on the ship not be returned to Australia under any circumstances?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, that's not my advice. I do understand that a former chief veterinary officer, somebody who served in the position some years ago has raised doubts but I have advice which is directly contrary to what you've said. That is not the advice we have.
MITCHELL:
What's that costing though, Prime Minister? It must be massively expensive?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't have with me a current figure but it will obviously be costing us quite a lot of money. I just should remind your listeners Neil, that this problem arose in the first place because the Saudi Arabian authorities claimed that the sheep had scabby mouth disease and therefore couldn't be landed. We dispute that, there does not appear to us to have been any proper basis for the decision for the Saudi Arabian authorities and we have been left with an extremely difficult situation. I understand the distress of people, we want to get the thing solved. There's still a desire if we could to find a destination but that doesn't now appear likely, that's why arrangements are being made for the sheep to be brought back to Australia. There will be a procedure involving Cocos Island and testing and so forth and there'll be really very, very elaborate and careful quarantine steps taken. I understand why people are nervous. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't, but what would be required to slaughter them at sea what not only be graphically horrendous it would also raise very serious environmental considerations. It would take a very long time, it could take 40 to 50 days on come estimates and on top of that it could be in breach of one of our international treaty obligations.
MITCHELL:
Thank you for calling in. Prime Minister, what do you think of this idea of putting Slim Dusty's head on the 50 cent coin?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I guess that's something that will be considered. I haven't heard of it before.
MITCHELL:
It was one of the McGaurans who floated it?
PRIME MINISTER:
I haven't seen that suggestion, so it's the first I've heard of it. All I say is that it will be considered, but I just don't have any stronger response at this stage.
MITCHELL:
Surely it might be a good idea to get some Australian heads on coins wouldn't it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, from time to time we do that and we normally have the sovereign's head all the time and then on top of that from time to time we have different depictions and we have in past had depictions of certain historical events. But we'll think about it, but I just am caught unawares.
MITCHELL:
Hello Fred. Go ahead please, Fred.
CALLER:
Oh good morning, Mr Howard. Howard I'm 62-year-old ex-Ansett worker of 37 years, I still haven't got my superannuation of two years. That's my money, I'm not talking about entitlements. But the question I want to ask you is how can you defend your hypocrisy of asking older people to stay longer at work when you allow the workforce of 15,000 to go to the wall?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think there's any inconsistency, Fred, between encouraging people to work longer and the fact that come companies through no fault of the Government get into financial trouble. There's nothing in our economic system that suggests that the Government has got to keep every company going. Ansett got into economic trouble overwhelmingly because it was not well managed. Governments can't be made responsible in a residual sense for the management of every company in this country, otherwise we'd have tax levels that no Australian would regard as acceptable.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister, the Reserve Bank is warning about low deposit home loans, saying I guess it's fairly obvious, but saying if the housing market crashes people could find themselves in real trouble - what's your reaction to that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I certainly share the bank's concern that some people take on too big an obligation. Low interest rates are a wonderful thing, but if we take too many risks as individuals and we take too great an advantage of the enormous facility that low interest rates afford when people have high wages and relatively secure employment then some can get into trouble and one of the things that must be avoided is people having virtually no deposit at all and that is what the bank is warning against. It's always prudent for people to try and save and put something of their own so that even in this low interest rate environment there is some kind of buffer against adversity, not that I'm suggesting there's going to be adversity and a recent study indicated that even if there were a set back the strength of the system would be such that people could sustain quite a significant fall in the value of their homes but I don't expect that to happen, I really don't. But I share the banks warning about low deposits.
MITCHELL:
Just on another issue, the UN Security Council has supported the US resolution after a lot of lobbying which seems to call for more troops and more money for Iraq with help from other countries, will you review our commitment to Iraq?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we have 800-900 people there and we don't intent to send peacekeepers, we're going to maintain essentially what we have there but it was always the understanding we had the Americans and the British that if we got involved we'd get involved in the sharp end which we did and did so very effectively but we really don't have the capacity given our other commitments and our Helpem Fren role in the Solomon Islands and you never know in other parts of the region, I'm not saying what we've got any particular areas in mind but it's possible. We don't have the capacity to have a lot of peacekeepers there.
MITCHELL:
So this resolution doesn't change that?
PRIME MINISTER:
No it doesn't. I noticed that the French and the Russians and the Germans have, although supporting the resolution they said of course, well they're reported of having said, and I heard the Russian Foreign Minister say it on radio this morning, that they won't be contributing any troops. I think it just does illustrate yet again that America's fiercest critics over Iraq were always prepared even now that a UN resolution has been passed to allow the Americans to do the heavy lifting. There are plenty of people around the world that are ready to criticise the United States and ask the United States to share responsibility for things but when it actually comes to their making a contribution they say no.
MITCHELL:
We'll take another quick call for the Prime Minister, Stephen go ahead.
CALLER:
Yes, I just wonder why the Prime Minister would not be more condemnatory regarding the comments of Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir?
PRIME MINISTER:
More condemnatory?
CALLER:
Well more condemnatory.... I think you were being conciliatory, I think that you avoided making any comment and tended to be a diplomat in the face of what appears to be grotesque comments, indefensible comments by the Malaysian Prime Minister and I think that just saying that he's on his way out, he's leaving, I'll let that go through to the keeper, I think that that actually in a sense colludes with the disgusting comments.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't agree with that, I think sometimes silence is more eloquent than criticism and the Malaysian Prime Minister over the years has made a series of inflammatory statements about all sorts of issues. My view on anti-Semitism are well known, I deplore it, I condemn it, I think it's appalling and any suggestion as I said of dividing the world between Jews and Muslims is dangerous, I would have thought that was very powerful criticism of what he said.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister, tough week? Bali and then the ceremony yesterday, have you found that personally tough?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, it has been, it's obviously been much tougher for the relatives and the survivors but it has been an emotionally driven week. I hope that what happened in Bali and I hope what occurred yesterday has given some support and comfort to the people who lost their relatives and also given some encouragement to the survivors. I think the nation has tried as best it can and in its own Australian way to help these people and we are a stronger better country as a result of that response, clearly not as a result of the tragedy.
MITCHELL:
What's your feeling, do we each year have some sort of commemoration or not?
PRIME MINISTER:
I would imagine that there'd be some event each year but nothing on the scale of the first anniversary, very similar if you look at the 11th of September in the United States, the first anniversary, huge media coverage, huge focus, second anniversary observance but nothing on that scale. I would imagine that that would happen in Australia in relation to Bali, an annual observance of some kind but nothing on the scale of the first anniversary.
MITCHELL:
You're off to the APEC summit next week, terrorism seems to have a permanent place on the agenda I suppose, will terrorism be discussed?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh yes, that will be on the agenda at APEC meetings for years into the future, I imagine, it won't be the only issue of course, economic issues and trade and business co-operation are a very important part of APEC.
MITCHELL:
What would you hope to bring out of that meeting?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the most important thing is to keep all of the countries engaged, I think it's very encouraging that there's going to be a pretty full if not a completely full roll up of all of the leaders, President of the United States, President of Russia, Prime Minister of Japan, President of Indonesia, President of China, it's not a bad collection as far as countries that are very relevant to Australia, the only countries that are not represented at APEC that continue to be very relevant to Australia are Britain and one or two other European countries.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister, thank you for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]