MITCHELL:
In our Canberra studio, Mr Howard, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Neil, your patient has a good sense of humour.
MITCHELL:
The patient has a good sense of humour, but not at the moment. Have you ever seen an operation? I';ve been watching it for half an hour, it';s extraordinary.
PRIME MINISTER:
Not in the, I heard the tail end of your description and I haven';t been in exactly that position, no.
MITCHELL:
I didn';t mean to be offensive to you, the Prime Minister …
PRIME MINISTER:
I would have exactly the same thing in similar circumstances, you weren';t offensive at all, certainly not.
MITCHELL:
If you';d like to speak to Mr Howard give us a call, 9696 1278. Prime Minister, terrorism, the Indonesian Vice President says the United States is the real terrorist, what';s your reaction to that?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think I';ll just let that one go through to the keeper because he would have been, in my estimation, saying that in the context of domestic Indonesian politics. It';s self-evidently not the case but I don';t want to make a big song and dance about it.
MITCHELL:
Is, well I guess the broader issue to it, is Indonesia tough enough on terrorism, is the will there in Indonesia to be tough enough on terrorism?
PRIME MINISTER:
I';ve seen a lot of evidence since the Bali attack in particular that they have tightened up, they did help us a lot, their police and their intelligence services worked very hard to apprehend Amrozi and Samudra and all the others. So they have to be given a lot of credit for that. It';s a big country and obviously they';ve got a bigger terrorist challenge than probably any other country in the region. You can always say more can be done but I think we have to give credit where it';s due and what they';ve done in the follow up with Bali in particular has been very impressive.
MITCHELL:
Surely these words, or words like this though, give comfort to the terrorists operating in South East Asia. I mean they';re almost identical to the words of the Bali bombers.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I';m aware of that, look self-evidently I don';t agree with the assessment and nor I imagine would President Megawati or most people who have another view of life than the Vice President. But you have to recognise that things are often said in different countries that have different cultures and political systems operate in a different way, but we might, from our vantage points as Australians see as very strange, but we have to serve many interests, we want the fight against terrorism to go on unrelentingly, we also want to preserve good relations with Indonesia, part of having an effective fight against terrorism in the region is to have a good relationship with Indonesia and sometimes you have to manage your language and calibrate your responses to serve those ends.
MITCHELL:
Does that include a reaction to his claim that Australia, which means you, have overreacted to the sentence of Abu Bakar Bashir?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I thought I made a fairly balanced comment about that.
MITCHELL:
Yes, but you weren';t happy with it.
PRIME MINISTER:
I said what I felt, and I said what the Australian people would want me to say and that is what I felt. I thought it was a mixed verdict. It was good that he was convicted, but as Alexander Downer and others have said, and as Kevin Rudd said, rather more forcefully than his leader, that he had a similar view.
MITCHELL:
Okay, what about Ali Imron, one of the key Bali bombers on what we know of what he did and yet the prosecutors only want 20 years, are you satisfied with that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don';t know that I';ll get into the detail of commenting, I mean the case is still going on, in the case of Bashir there was a verdict and we don';t have a verdict in relation to this. I don';t know that I want to get into giving a running commentary on the level of sentence being sought by the prosecution, probably is going too far. These are difficult areas, you don';t know where to start and where to finish, you do have a number of interests to serve, if you say too much you';re criticised for intervening, if you don';t say enough you';re criticised for not saying how you feel, it';s a delicate balance. I don';t think I should comment on the sentence sought in the case.
MITCHELL:
Okay, another area, the two men named in Australia as having been suspected of being in contact with an Al Qaeda suspect in Spain in Tuesday. Now Mr Downer has told AM that the Government, or police have been aware of this man for two years but only this week after the story broke have requested to interview him, now surely that';s a bad oversight?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I can';t answer for the police because this is an operational matter, I can only say what I';ve been told in relation to what the police have done, I think this has been made clear that they started the process to interview this bloke, the police, did on the 22nd of August and they had to go through the Director of Public Prosecutions and the Attorney General';s Department and documents had to be translated and processed and the formal application landed on the Spanish desk on the 2nd of September, on Tuesday. Now I guess, I understand your point, I just can';t answer that because you will recognise that the police operate independently of the Government and I';ve spoken to the Justice Minister this morning who';s responsible for police and consistent with operational considerations and security considerations I naturally would want as much information made available as was possible.
MITCHELL:
Well I heard you say in an interview yesterday that we';ve been aware, or the police have been aware, and had made the request to interview some time ago. And it was this week.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they started the process, I mean I said it was my understanding and then subsequently when I established the sequence of events I made that further detail available to the media and then of course you';ll notice the Federal Police put out a statement so there was no mistaken impression left as to what the sequence was, I mean I';m not trying to disguise in any way the time sequence, they started on the 22nd and it was the Government that made it known that the formal request was made on the 2nd of September.
MITCHELL:
I had the impressions from your interview yesterday they';d made the request some time ago.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, what I said yesterday was my understanding and when I got more information I made more information available.
MITCHELL:
Okay, we need to take a break, it';s 14 past nine, we';ll come back with more from the Prime Minister in a moment.
[commercial break]
MITCHELL:
The Prime Minister is in our Canberra studio. Mr Howard, just sitting here at the Alfred having just walked out of an operating theatre, makes me think about the absurd dispute that has been going on between the Premiers and yourself over health. Is there any way that that';s going to be settled in the near future. I mean, I saw Peter Beattie saying this could cost lives.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that is silly. It is alarmist and quite irresponsible, quite irresponsible to say that. He';s just playing on people';s emotions.
MITCHELL:
Well it';s a very emotional area.
PRIME MINISTER:
I know it';s an emotional area, and that';s why there is a special constraint on people in my position and Mr Beattie';s position and Mr Bracks'; position not to use that kind of language when they know themselves that they';re having a debate about trying to get more money from the Commonwealth. No matter what the offer, they always say it';s inadequate.
MITCHELL:
But do we have a crisis in our hospitals?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I don';t believe we have a crisis, no. I think people have been trashing Australia';s health system for political gain for too long, and I make that criticism of both sides of politics, particularly at a state level. We have a lot… we have deficiencies in our health system, but I can assure your listeners that it';s an infinitely better system than you find in Britain or America or Japan or any European country. A much better system. And we do ourselves an enormous disservice by routinely and ritualistically trashing the system and using language like ‘crisis';. There is not a crisis. There are gaps.
MITCHELL:
But with respect, I mean you and the Premiers do us a disservice by being unable to work it through. We sit here in the system and see politicians playing games [inaudible] walkout.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well don';t… no, I mean I was the walked out on one.
MITCHELL:
Yeah, sure.
PRIME MINISTER:
And one of the consequences of that was we never got to discuss indigenous child protection or energy policy or a national bushfire inquiry. And I mean I think that was a prearranged stunt. I mean they even had a joint communique written, which they released immediately after their walkout, expressing some of their views on… it was pre-cooked. And they were genuinely surprised when at the beginning of the meeting I offered to discuss health policy and I offered in fact to have the inquiry that Mr Beattie, on behalf of other Premiers, had asked for, and then they get up and walk out. We couldn';t even talk about the terms of reference of that. Now we made an offer that involved a 17 per cent increase over and above inflation. Our figures from the independent Australian Institute of Health and Welfare, which I admit only go up to 2001, show that in the period up to there, over a period of three or four years, our contribution to running public hospitals had risen and the states collectively had fallen. Now when you bear in mind that we don';t operate the hospitals… I mean all of those, that hospital system in Victoria is owned and controlled and operated and regulated by the Victorian Government. That';s fair enough. But we contribute… even Mr Bracks who doesn';t accept my figures, acknowledges that we contribute 50 per cent, and we don';t have any say in the running of the hospital, and he gets up and he walks out.
MITCHELL:
Okay. We';ll take some calls for the Prime Minister. Can we go to Irene please. Irene, go ahead Irene.
CALLER:
Good morning Neil. Good morning Prime Minister. I was wondering what is this new tax you';re going to tax our CFA on?
MITCHELL:
There has been a report of this Prime Minister, that there will be a tax on fundraising for certain organisations like the SES and the Country Fire Authority.
PRIME MINISTER:
I';m not aware of any new tax. Not me.
MITCHELL:
No, no, it';s a change in the method of the taxing of donations or of fundraising by these charities.
PRIME MINISTER:
I';m not aware of that. No, I';m honestly not. I may have missed something in the papers, but I';m certainly not aware of that. I can check it out and if there is anything I should tell you, I';ll let you know.
MITCHELL:
Okay. Does Qantas need anti-missile decoys on its aircraft Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
Probably not at the moment, no. This illustrates just how sensitive, for good reason, this security issue is. I said yesterday that this matter has been looked at by Qantas, but I didn';t want to put it any stronger than that and I didn';t want people to think that it was just around the corner.
MITCHELL:
Well it';s turned into a discussion about whether the Government will subsidise it.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I know. Well the position, as I understand it, is that it has been discussed between the Government, in a general way between the Government and Qantas, and the judgement of everybody at present is that it';s not needed. And I indicated in an interview on the Sunday programme a few weeks ago that the more effective way of dealing with this problem of course was greater I guess you call it perimeter security, and the intelligence and so forth was better. But whenever you get into a discussion like this, you';ve got to canvass every possibility.
MITCHELL:
Well is the Government looking at, even considering, subsidising such equipment?
PRIME MINISTER:
No we';re not. We';re not considering that, and I know Qantas is not considering acquiring the equipment either, with or without Government help. I think it';s got to a situation where it';s an issue that has been discussed and looked at in a very general way. The risk assessment in relation to this in Australia is quite low. It';s obviously a little higher elsewhere and the information that we obtained from Qantas yesterday suggested that most people regard Bangkok as a little softer than some other parts, and there are four Qantas flights out of I think something like seven or eight hundred a day.
MITCHELL:
Well if there are other airports named though, should they not be made public?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well if I get any information that I can make available, I will.
MITCHELL:
Okay. There';s a couple of other things I';d like to touch quickly because I know you need to get away. Your reaction to the resolution, the US resolution in the United Nations for a multinational force in Iraq. Should we be part of it? Will we be part of it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we are already doing more than most. We do have still 800 personnel in Iraq. That seems to have been forgotten, and that';s more than most.
MITCHELL:
So we would not be…
PRIME MINISTER:
No, we';re not going to send any more peacekeepers. No. And incidentally, I made that clear right at the beginning of this whole thing. I told both President Bush and Tony Blair that if we were involved it would be in the sharp combat end, not in providing peacekeepers.
MITCHELL:
Well what if this UN resolution goes through? Does that change our position?
PRIME MINISTER:
No that won';t change our position. In any event, we still have – I repeat – we still have just over or under 800 people in the Iraq area.
MITCHELL:
Housing market figures were released yesterday. Quite amazing – 25%, 26% over a year in some cities. Do you still believe that a housing inquiry can have an impact on prices?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I said at the time it was set up, you';re looking at an impact at the margin. The reason why these prices are going up is that buying a house is a good investment. Interest rates are very low and people can service bigger loans as a result. There is no capital gains tax, and neither there should be incidentally, on the family home. So it';s a very attractive investment. That';s why the value of homes is going up. And people are very happy with that. I don';t get people complaining about an increase in the value of their home.
MITCHELL:
We';ll take another call. Ken, go ahead please Ken.
CALLER:
How are you going Neil? G';day Mr Howard.
PRIME MINISTER:
Hello Ken.
CALLER:
Look I';d just like to say I voted for you at the last election, and I disagree with you on your point that you said there is not a crisis in healthcare. And why I say that is is because to get to the dentist, to get your tooth fixed for a lot of people can take up to two years. And also, I saw on the TV a couple of nights ago a man crying because he couldn';t get a simple operation done. He was an aged person and he';d been waiting a couple of years. And I think there is a tendency now on both sides of the government, to minimise a lot of things. And I think there are a lot of people worried out there about simple things in life.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Ken, I think that';s a fair comment and let me say that I both agree and disagree with you. The point you make about nobody in my position should in any way ever trivialise what you call the simple but fundamental things in life, and that';s health and education – I agree with that completely.
MITCHELL:
I guess you';re saying the system is working. Ken, and we get a lot of other callers saying it isn';t.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well when you say a system is working, that doesn';t mean to say there aren';t areas where it could be made better and there aren';t areas where it falls down.
MITCHELL:
But if people are waiting long periods of time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well if people are waiting, it means that there is a weakness. Now I would argue that there are too few public hospital beds.
MITCHELL:
So how do we fix that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think the State Government should make more available. They run the hospitals.
MITCHELL:
Well they need you to provide the money for it.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I mean this is a… well we';re providing them with the GST and that';s going to grow and grow as the years go by, and we';re providing them with a 17 per cent real increase. The whole debate, until they finally signed the agreement on Sunday, was about whether they were going to match our increase.
MITCHELL:
Okay. Thanks for calling Ken. Prime Minister, I know you need to get away.
PRIME MINISTER:
That';s alright.
MITCHELL:
Pauline Hanson. I read the constitutional lawyers saying that she would be able to run for parliament once she';s served her time. Is that your understanding?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I haven';t sought any advice on that but I think as a matter of ordinary justice, if somebody is convicted of a crime and they';ve served their time, unless there is a specific prohibition, they ought to be able to live their lives like any other citizen. Isn';t that the principle of justice? That you pay your debt to society and then you should be free to enjoy the benefits of citizenship along with anybody else? Now as to whether that interpretation reported in The Age this morning is correct or not, I haven';t got an advice on… I had always thought the constitution did impose some restriction, but look I could be wrong about that. I haven';t sought any advice. But as a matter of principle, my view is that once a person has paid their debt to society, as the old expression goes, and done their time, then they should be able to live a normal life.
MITCHELL:
Do you think she';ll come back to politics?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don';t know.
MITCHELL:
Does it concern you?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, it doesn';t. I believe, and I indicated this to you a couple of weeks ago, I believe that the Australian public made an adverse judgement about the One Nation party for two reasons. One of them was that the party had no answers to Australia';s problems…
MITCHELL:
Well whose strategy do you support on that, Peter Costello or…?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don';t think there';s an enormous difference in the strategies…
MITCHELL: But seeing that Peter Costello was saying you view it at the ballot box, not through little….
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think you can… I think that the adverse judgement about One Nation was made at the ballot box but there was a separate issue about whether the registration was valid. But look, I';ve said before that I don';t expect my Ministers, let alone my senior Ministers to be robots and to say exactly the same thing on every conceivable issue. Life would be intolerable if they did that.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister, the economy';s stumbling a little on the figures released today. Is this going to hurt people?
PRIME MINISTER:
The economy… no, the export side is weak because of the drought and the weakness of the world economy.
MITCHELL:
So will this hurt the average Australian?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don';t believe it will, no I don';t. But, I mean, I can';t give guarantees and I don';t want somebody to come back in six months and say you told me such and such. There';s a weakness on the export side; the domestic economy is still very strong; interest rates are still low; inflation is low; consumer spending is strong; business investment is still quite strong and domestic economic optimism is still very firm. But because of the drought and the weakness of the world economy, and the ladder is starting to repair itself, we had a very modest rate of growth to say the least in the March quarter.
MITCHELL:
Thank you for speaking to us. How are you celebrating Fathers Day?
PRIME MINISTER:
I will be spending it with my family in a very normal traditional way. I must say I haven';t thought about it a lot, but I';ll be spending time with them, all of us will be together over the weekend which is very nice.
MITCHELL:
And we can take your endorsement for the Alfred Hospital Fathers Day appeal?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh absolutely and I hope that the bloke who is undergoing that operation is okay and if you';re talking to him, will you please give him my good wishes.
MITCHELL:
I will. Thank you very much for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]