MITCHELL:
In our Canberra studio is the Prime Minister. Mr Howard, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning, Neil.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister, there were reports today that Pan Pharmaceuticals is not cooperating fully and providing brandnames, is that correct?
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm not sure that that's right, but if it does turn out to be correct, well - and I've got to be careful what I say for obvious reasons - it will only aggravate the problems that the company faces. This is a difficult issue, I ask people not to panic. If the published advice is followed, and I know it's laborious going through those lists, and there could be more information to come, but it is a situation where the agency has acted correctly. We got the information, as indicated last night by Trish Worth and the agents who got the information earlier this year, there were particular checks made, we had to be certain that the action taken was properly based, otherwise there could have been a lot of consequences and now we're making as much information available to the public as quickly as we can.
MITCHELL:
When will we have that information? Because at the moment it's a very broad warning...
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, well I can't... they have published certain lists and I have to bow to the experts, the agency, I'm not an expert in this, I have to take their advice and they are making the information available as soon as possible.
MITCHELL:
Is it correct that it has the potential to kill?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I guess if in an extreme case, obviously that is possible. I think it would be unduly alarmist to say that death is likely, I think that's being unduly alarmist. But what's happened is that we ... it's been discovered in relation to one particular product and that's the travel sickness one. There were adverse consequences and then as a consequence of that the practices of the manufacturer were put threw the ringer and all of these deficiencies and alleged malpractices were unearthed and that's formed the basis of the suspension of the licence for six months and the recall now, evidence, as I understand it, of harm beyond that particular product has not yet emerged. So, anything's possible but I never like to easily embrace death warnings because I don't want to alarm the public. But on the other hand, I want to protect the public and that's what you have a Therapeutic Goods Agency for.
MITCHELL:
Well, given that there's one identified, there still have been problems with others...
PRIME MINISTER:
There have been.
MITCHELL:
... manipulation of a laboratory test, fabrication of vitamin...
PRIME MINISTER:
... I mean, on the evidence available, the agency had no alternative other than to do what it's done and we'll continue to throw the book at anybody who doesn't match up to the standards that have been set, because you are dealing here with a massive public health responsibility because it's the first responsibility of a national government to make sure that you do have proper standards of public health protection.
MITCHELL:
What is being done to ensure Pan Firm Pharmaceuticals cooperates because I find it astounding that we haven't already got a list of every brand and brand that's affected.
PRIME MINISTER:
The precise exchanges between the agency and the company I can't detail, but I can say that all the available mechanisms of the law will be used to ensure that cooperation takes place.
MITCHELL:
Are you aware that there is a lack of cooperation, or not?
PRIME MINISTER:
There are suggestions of that but I haven't myself spoken to the agency this morning about that but I will be during the course of the morning.
MITCHELL:
I assume that will be treated very seriously?
PRIME MINISTER:
It will be treated very seriously and if there's any breach of the law or further... if there is evidence of non-compliance, clear evidence of non-compliance, well clearly the law will be enforced very vigorously but I have to be necessarily a little constrained in what I say for obvious legal reasons.
MITCHELL:
Are the laws tough enough?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the Parliamentary Secretary, Trish Worth, has foreshadowed some toughening of laws. Whenever something like this happens that's a fair question to ask and in the first blush people will say - well, they're not tough enough. But on the other hand, what happens with all of these things is that standards are layed down, regular checks are made. When problems are discovered, further checks are made and if those further checks reveal a failure to comply with the standards, then action is taken to prevent people carrying on business and to recall products. Now, that is exactly what's happened on this occasion. I think the system has worked.
MITCHELL:
When was it first known? Earlier this year?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yep, earlier this year.
MITCHELL:
Was it quickly enough? Here we are into, what, almost May?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, yes. But you have to... before you suspend somebody's licence you have to be satisfied there are prima facie grounds to do so.
MITCHELL:
And it took that long to find out?
PRIME MINISTER:
So I am told and I have no reason to doubt that advice.
MITCHELL:
Only six months suspension, could that be extended if necessary?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh I'm sure it could be, yes - but that's a sensible initial period.
MITCHELL:
The hotline already seems jammed, as I said, I think this reaches into every Australian household. Will you put more resources into that?
PRIME MINISTER:
If that's necessary, yes.
MITCHELL:
You agree, it does reach into every house, everybody's is taking vitamins, aren't they?
PRIME MINISTER:
Most people do from time to time, yes.
MITCHELL:
Do you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Occasionally.
MITCHELL:
Does it effect you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I haven't really... I suppose I'll have to think about that like every other consumer, but I haven't to date, I'm actually more worried about the general public.
MITCHELL:
Okay, so what is the advice? The advice is just stop taking...
PRIME MINISTER:
The advice is to listen to what the experts say and the experts are the Therapeutic Goods Agency, the people running that are experts, I'm not and I would, you know, not presume to say anything other than to take the advice that is being offered publicly. If you have any doubts get in touch with the hotline; read the advertisement in the paper; listen to the news; look at tomorrow's newspapers to see if there are any further lists; but above all don't panic.
MITCHELL:
Okay we'll have the head of the Therapeutic Goods Agency on the programme later in the morning...
PRIME MINISTER:
He is best able to answer the technical questions because he is a technical expert.
MITCHELL:
Yeah, I guess the problem is we don't know the answers yet, do we? I mean, we don't know how far it reaches.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, that is true and I can assure your listeners that every effort is being made to get those answers as quickly as possible and it is something that all the resources that are needed will be made available. But it's also very important that people don't panic and imagine that there's some catastrophe around the corner.
MITCHELL:
We'll take a break, we're speaking to the Prime Minister in our Canberra studio early because he's off to the United States at the end of this week. We'll take calls to the Prime Minister in a moment, I want to raise the Medicare issue as well - 96 96 12 78 if you'd like to speak to the Prime Minister.
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MITCHELL:
It is 15 to 9. The Prime Minister is in our Canberra studios. Repeating we will have experts in the area of the herbal and vitamin medicines through the programme taking your calls. We're also providing a consumer guide as much as we can. Mr Howard is with us. Brian, go ahead please.
CALLER:
Good morning Neil. Prime Minister, just on this scare with the herbal medicine. You were talking there about the toughening of regulations. It does concern me that, you know, we live in an open society where we expect everyone to abide by the law, and I worry that legislation to restrict properly conducted businesses will just get out of control. We're seeing in China where a closed society can't regulate the public health scandal. I just wanted to see if you can give some sort of assurance that these regulations just don't get totally out of control.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I can do that. You can't really make any comparison between Australia and China when it comes to something like this. There is a balance. When something goes wrong such as what has occurred in the last 24 hours, the Government acts, it suspends licences, it takes strong action in the public interest, and people want us to do that, including the most ardent free entrepreneurs in the community. And by the same token, if you seemingly adversely effect somebody's business, you get criticised for being too interventionist. It's a hard balance to strike, but that's my responsibility and I can assure you we'll strike that balance.
MITCHELL:
Or public health goes out of business surely, doesn't it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes of course it does. Of course it does. And most businessmen and women I know would agree with that, and I guess your caller agrees with that too. He just worries that Governments might overreact. Sometimes they do. We won't on this. But we'll look after the public interest before everything else.
MITCHELL:
Denise, go ahead please.
CALLER:
Yes, good morning Neil and good morning Prime Minister Howard. I just had a question relating to the changes proposed for Medicare, and I suppose there is two parts to that. My concern is as a mother of sick children who is just trying to make ends meet.
PRIME MINISTER:
Does your doctor bulk bill?
CALLER:
Pardon?
PRIME MINISTER:
Does your doctor bulk bill?
CALLER:
Not usually.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, okay.
CALLER:
Because we don't have a healthcare card and we're not seen to be so poor as, you know, to need assistance. We live on commission and so there might be some better times during the year but a lot of the year, even though the overall income looks okay, a large part of the year we're earning a lot less money but because of that overall figure we're deemed to be doing okay. And, you know, maybe on paper at one end of the year, that looks alright but...
MITCHELL:
So your worry is paying the bills?
CALLER:
Yes.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well one of the... you want to know how this will affect you?
CALLER:
Well I've listened to what is being said in the media releases, but I'm not convinced. What worries me even more is that people like us who are still struggling because we're above cut off lines, there are plenty of people below what we are and I see them when I go down to Frankston Hospital sitting there and waiting, and I've stood beside old ladies lying on beds and it's the most heartbreaking thing because they are genuinely ill and...
PRIME MINISTER:
This is at a hospital?
CALLER:
Yes, yes. At Frankston Hospital. I've been there as [inaudible]
PRIME MINISTER:
Well what I announced yesterday of course doesn't affect the public hospitals. It affects GP consultations and out of hospital services.
MITCHELL:
It is right that she could be paying more though. I mean that's...
PRIME MINISTER:
No well if I could just deal with her position. You don't bulk bill. Could I ask you, and you don't have to tell me, I know you might want to keep it private, but on average what does your doctor charge you?
CALLER:
Usually $42.
PRIME MINISTER:
$42. Well under our system, if you go to a doctor who participates in it, instead of paying $42 up front, you'll only pay $17 up front. And you'll present your card and have it swiped and the $25 Medicare rebate, which as of now you'd have to queue up at a Medicare office presumably to collect, will be automatically credited within two days to the doctor's account.
MITCHELL:
But that's assuming the doctor doesn't put up his fees, and all the doctors organisations are saying they will.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there is nothing in this package which should justify or lead to the doctor putting up his fee.
MITCHELL:
That's not the way the AMA calls it.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the AMA's views have been somewhat mixed on this. They've been quite mixed. And I read yesterday what Dr Phelps said and I didn't find anything there that directly said that, and in the end individual doctors will, as they do now, make individual decisions. There seems to be amongst the people who criticise us, there seems to be a view put around that there is some kind of limit now on what doctors charge if they don't bulk bill. There's not. There never has been, ever since Labor introduced it. It has always been the case that whether you bulk bill or don't bulk bill is a matter for the individual doctor. But to go back to Denise, isn't it?
MITCHELL:
Yes.
PRIME MINISTER:
How it will affect you is that up front instead of paying $42, you'll pay $17. And then on top of that, can I ask you a question - do you have private health insurance now?
CALLER:
We do but we really can't afford it.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, well let me... well I mean I'm not questioning whether you can or can't afford in the future is something that I leave for you to make a judgement on, but whether or not you keep your existing private health insurance, another thing that you will get out of the package announced yesterday is the right for the first time to take out a separate private health insurance policy at about $50 a year premium, which will cover all of your out of pocket expenses, that's all of the $17 and any other things for pathology or other out of hospital services, that you may incur during the year over and above a level of $1,000. And this new stand alone insurance policy, and I emphasise that you don't have to have existing private health cover in order to take it out, although if you do you can simply add it to your existing cover, for the first time gives to middle Australia, if I can put it that way, the capacity to buy peace of mind against a surge in medical expenses. And if you have six children, we have three and they're all grown up now, but we know from time to time you do have surges in medical expenses with any sized family, and that will give you some additional peace of mind.
MITCHELL:
Is there a guarantee from the insurance company that it will stay at a dollar a week?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well when you are dealing with something which is price and cost sensitive, nobody can guarantee that a premium remains at the same dollar amount. I mean, I can't do that any more than anybody can guarantee anything remains at the same dollar amount. But that is the figure that has been quoted and obviously it gives you an idea that it's eminently affordable.
MITCHELL:
Mr Howard, are you saying if under this scheme, if your doctor does decide to charge you more, given that you know he's now claiming from Medicare and he's charging me a gap, if he decides to up that gap on what it is at the moment, are you saying that's wrong? He shouldn't be doing that?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, what I'm saying is he won't be able to say it's because of our package, and there is no reason that our package would put any pressure on him. Indeed, if he is I guess perhaps like Denise's doctor or a doctor who bulk bills some people and doesn't bulk bill others, because if he participates in this scheme he will get incentives to go on bulk billing the people he now bulk bills, or certainly the pensioners and the health card holders, there is in fact more money for him and therefore less justification for it.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister, you told me you would reflect over Easter on many things including your future. Did you do that?
PRIME MINISTER:
I reflected on a lot of things but I don't have anything to add.
MITCHELL:
Did you reach a decision?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't have anything to add to what I have said.
MITCHELL:
Have you discussed it with the Treasurer?
PRIME MINISTER:
What, over Easter? No. Well look, we talk about a lot of things Neil. We're very close colleagues and in the natural order of things, Peter and I talk about all sorts of issues.
MITCHELL:
Well that's a change. You've told me in the past you haven't discussed it with him.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, what I said in the past would have been right and what I say now would be right.
MITCHELL:
So I can take that as an indication you have.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, you can assume that I'm not going into the details of what I talk to the Treasurer about.
MITCHELL:
Are you enjoying the battle between Kim Beazley and Simon Crean?
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm not making any comment on that. Whatever I say will run the risk of being seen as self-serving.
MITCHELL:
Your ticker line has stuck though, hasn't it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you remember the circumstances in which I used it.
MITCHELL:
Yeah, I think it was on this programme.
PRIME MINISTER:
It was on your programme. Now I don't have anything... I really don't want to get into it. I really don't. It is a matter for the Labor Party and I think the Australian public reacts rather negatively to the leaders of political parties that aren't experiencing those things, trying to score cheap political points. I am focusing on governing, and yesterday we announced a major strengthening of the Medicare system, we're unveiling a lot of policy, we're doing things. The Labor Party's response to my announcement, to say that it's the beginning of the end of Medicare just shows how bereft they are of policy. I mean how the injection of another $916 million over four years into a scheme can be seen as the beginning of the end of it, really does escape me. But I suppose if you don't have any policy, you have to say something and that is essentially what Mr Crean and Mr Smith have done in response to our announcement that will make Medicare a better and fairer system.
MITCHELL:
Thank you for your time. We are out of time unfortunately. You are off to the United States, George Bush's ranch. Got a ten gallon hat for it?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I won't be taking one of those. Australians don't wear them.
MITCHELL:
Thanks for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay.
[ends]